Understanding Curb Weight, GVWR, Towing and CDL requirements

[Bearsixty7]

That's a great question, and one I do not know the answer to. The sticker in the door frame shows the GVWR and both axle ratings, but no GCWR. Ford's site only goes back to 2004 with the towing ratings, as far as I can find... and my truck is a 1997 F-250 HD Supercab.

But considering it has a gas engine and 3.55 gears, it can't be rated anywhere near 17,000 lbs of trailer. Likely closer to 10,000.
In which case, I'm back to the drawing board re: the best way to move my machine without a CDL.

1997 F250 Gas motor and Auto Trans with 3:55 gears only has a GCWR of 15,000.

 

[Squirrel Tooth Alice]

We are limited to a maximum of 26.000 lbs., either as a single unit or in combination. No wiggle room to 36K.

Your flow chart shows a trailer of 10k or less, towed by a truck at 26k or less... does not require a CDL.

 

[Squirrel Tooth Alice]

1997 F250 Gas motor and Auto Trans with 3:55 gears only has a GCWR of 15,000.

Yeah, thanks. It's woefully inadequate to pull a 17k trailer. I'm still looking for the best non-CDL solution to move a 13k machine...
Fortunately, I don't need to move it anytime soon, so I have time to figure it out.

 

[stumblinhorse]

Yeah, thanks. It's woefully inadequate to pull a 17k trailer. I'm still looking for the best non-CDL solution to move a 13k machine...
Fortunately, I don't need to move it anytime soon, so I have time to figure it out.

Your best option is a 9900 GVWR 2500 Ram pulling a 16k trailer with 8k super singles.

That is what my setup “looks“ like now. So I hope I will slide on past. My 1 ton is a SRW that I took all the badges off of. And my trailer is just 2 single wheel axles. So at a glance I look like a 2500 pulling a 14k . If I get stopped I have my place way pointed and will hopefully be less 150 miles…

 

[LD1]

It's the same in Washington. Above a certain weight it is considered a commercial motor vehicle, but in Washington, that doesn't mean the CDL requirement kicks in until it is being used commercially. We are limited to a maximum of 26.000 lbs., either as a single unit or in combination. No wiggle room to 36K.

Sure looks to me like they are giving you the wiggle room to be 36k? Follow the flow chart you posted for a 26k truck and a 10k trailer and see where it puts you.

Your flow chart shows a trailer of 10k or less, towed by a truck at 26k or less... does not require a CDL.

BINGO

 

[Hay Dude]

I don’t know why this is so hard to understand.

You can pull a 9999 trailer behind a 25,999 truck. I see guys without a CDL in a 25,999 dump truck pulling an air compressor or other small trailer all the time.

Maybe there’s some quirky state law somewhere that has their own rules, but generally speaking it’s perfectly legal.

 

[Hay Dude]

Yeah, thanks. It's woefully inadequate to pull a 17k trailer. I'm still looking for the best non-CDL solution to move a 13k machine...
Fortunately, I don't need to move it anytime soon, so I have time to figure it out.

Well you’ll need a med card for sure. As far as truck and trailer goes a 13K machine is going to gobble up a large portion of the 26k left allowable. You only have 13k left to account for truck & trailer. (26-13=13)

The trailer required to haul a payload of 13k is going to weigh at least 16K fully loaded. That leaves only 10k for truck, fuel, tools, etc. You’ll have to go bare bones on your cargo other than the machine.

Best chance is the 13K machine on a very light & short 16K trailer pulled by a 9999 3/4ton truck.

I don’t think you’ll be over on axles if the trailer is constructed properly. (2) 7k’s would probably be ok. Optional 8k’s are better, but they might make trailer weigh more.
The rear axle of the 3/4ton truck is going to be looking squatty if the trailer axles are rear-ward. Your loaded trailer will “shift” about 1,500-2,000 pounds onto your hitch and trucks rear axle.

I’m pretty sure Ford offered an F-350 “de-rated” to 9,999. Maybe the others do it, too. Probably go with a reg cab.

You are definitely on the very edge of the limits of the non-CDL, for sure. Once you buy everything, you are pretty much committed.

That’s why I went with the CDL 30+ years ago. I was tired of the mental gymnastics of trying figure out what was legal.

 

[Squirrel Tooth Alice]

I’m pretty sure Ford offered an F-350 “de-rated” to 9,999. Maybe the others do it, too. Probably go with a reg cab.

Hmmm... Perhaps there's a way an individual can have their truck (dually) and trailer de-rated. That would seem logical to me, even though logic and the law sometimes are at odds.

It would be like going to the state and saying, "I'm going to take this very capable truck and this very capable trailer, both built to safely haul loads heavier than I will use them for. By de-rating them, this is my commitment to always stay below CDL requirements, under penalty of law."

After all, what is safer? Running a 9999 GVW truck right on the ragged edge, or running a 14000 GVW truck at 9999?

 

[stumblinhorse]

Hmmm... Perhaps there's a way an individual can have their truck (dually) and trailer de-rated. That would seem logical to me, even though logic and the law sometimes are at odds.

It would be like going to the state and saying, "I'm going to take this very capable truck and this very capable trailer, both built to safely haul loads heavier than I will use them for. By de-rating them, this is my commitment to always stay below CDL requirements, under penalty of law."

After all, what is safer? Running a 9999 GVW truck right on the ragged edge, or running a 14000 GVW truck at 9999?

The 9900 trucks are mostly the same equipment as the 14000 trucks. Especially before 2013. My 01 2500 has more heavy duty components then my 2016 3500. That is what @Hay Dude means by derated.

some states do allow you to register a weight for a vehicle that is less than GVWR.

you have to decide what is more important. Safety but requiring a CDL. Or at the limit but totally legal and without a CDL. I chose safety. And will pay the fines if I get them.

 

[3 Horse Ranch]

Sure looks to me like they are giving you the wiggle room to be 36k? Follow the flow chart you posted for a 26k truck and a 10k trailer and see where it puts you.

BINGO

You must have missed the box that says "Are the manufacturers weight rating of the vehicle(s)s 26,001 or more" That bracketed "s" indicates both vehicles in combination.

Stated more clearly in another place:
"All trailers with a manufacturer's weight rating of 10,001 pounds or more, and a combined vehicles' gross weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more."

This tells me that any combination of 26,000 requires a CDL. It looks like I could haul a 14k or larger trailer behind a pickup provided I don't exceed 26k, but the language is a bit ambiguous. I wasn't planning on moving anything heavy and with the language being less than crystal clear, I bought a 10K trailer. There has to be a reason that trailer manufacturers list the GVWR of their 10K trailers at #9900 on the data plate.