Novice wants a MIG, advise ?

[workinonit]

Do yourself a favor and get a 200 to 250 amp machine, otherwise you will always regret it. Miller 250 or similar. Watch some welding videos, get yourself some scrap metal and start burning wire. You'll never learn unless you do it. MIG is easy, at least to me. I taught myself to stick weld years ago on may dad's old Miller Dialarc 300. After learning to stick weld, MIG was easy. I'm a soso welder. In my world I'm perfect. I can stick it together, it stays and it looks halfway decent.

 

[Spike56]

Do yourself a favor and get a 200 to 250 amp machine, otherwise you will always regret it. Miller 250 or similar. Watch some welding videos, get yourself some scrap metal and start burning wire. You'll never learn unless you do it. MIG is easy, at least to me. I taught myself to stick weld years ago on may dad's old Miller Dialarc 300. After learning to stick weld, MIG was easy. I'm a soso welder. In my world I'm perfect. I can stick it together, it stays and it looks halfway decent.

I am thinking you are right here. In the past, I went cheap on something and regretted it. I do not think it would be difficult to learn MIG, at least for my projects. Not doing anything "serious" - anything that needed 100% proper welds to be safe. My biggest problem welding with Stick is my depth perception and when the rod is full length. The shorter it gets, the better my welds. Not just seeing but holding proper distance at the same time. Of course, I DO NOT practice enough either. Typically, I have 1-2 hours to do anything and then need to do something else. So, I dash out to the shop get it done and cleanup. Always wanted a MIG since I have used stick and noted I needed to be much closer to the work piece. The magnifiers in the helmet didn't help that much, it was more keeping the distance as the stick burnt down.

 

[scootr]

I use a 180 Lincoln with a gas bottle. This unit does all I need. Will weld tractor repairs and mods. I Built a trailer with it once. It's 220v. I paid about $500. I have since given my 220v AC stick welder away.
I see the new Lincoln 200 for that money now. I did not get the aluminum welding gun with it. IF I were to replace it it would ve another lincoln with the aluminum gun addition. But I may never replace it, I had it for 12-15 years now.
Be sure to show us what you choose.

 

[5030]

90% of what I do is spray transfer so I require at least 250 amps of weld power and of course shielding gas. My preference is ESAB pulsed MIG. Pulsed MIG gives you a TIG quality weld with the speed of a MIG.

 

[jjeff]

All I've only ever owned and currently own are Lincolns and Hobart's, imo and experience you probably won't regret either brand, I use my Hobart 210mvp which has been problem free for almost 15 yrs it also gives you the option of using either 120/240 volt, rarely hit the duty cycle never had a problem with penetration with it but did take a little fine tuning for thinner wall, especially using flux core. Only thing I wish it didn't have were tap settings for amperage which is unlike the Lincolns I've owned. Imo you get what you pay for.

 

[jaxs]

Were it not for "My tractor won't start,what's wrong with it?" and "Which welder should I buy?" weeds would grow up around this site.
There is no one size fits all welder. If you expect meaningful advice,you need to lay out ALL your concerns in post #1,not wait until #22 to say "My biggest problem welding with Stick is my depth perception and when the rod is full length. The shorter it gets, the better my welds. Not just seeing but holding proper distance at the same time." Before discarding your stick try some 3/32 7024 rods on thin metal. You will find it easier to strike , re-strike and hold an arc than other rods. The filler burns out inside flux allowing you to lightly DRAG rod along in contact with work while maintaining arc without sticking rod. Don't manipulate or weave rod,just move along in a straight line while watching puddle and FEELING for arc length.
Mig isn't a magic solution for your problem, it can conceal a bigger problem unless you learn and apply proper techniques same as stick and TIG. It's easy making pretty beads with GMAW but unless properly done the bead is little more than you can get with an electric caulk gun. Play around with the 7024s while weighing other options,all you have to lose is a few dollars worth of rods but you might gain confidence in yourself.

 

[JimRB]

There are people around that have classes. Some classes customized to what you need. Welding Classes

 

[etpm]

When you get your MIG welder you will really need to practice so that you can make good welds. MIG welding makes it easy to produce welds that look good, or even great, but are actually pretty much just sitting on the surface of the parent metal. So when stressed they break off. I have seen this many times. I have been gas welding for 53 years and arc welding for 42 years. When I first got my little Lincoln SP125Plus I was laughing while I was welding because it was so easy and fun. But even though I was good at gas, stick, and TIG welding I had almost no experience wire feed welding so I practiced and took a 1 day class. Since you, the OP, can't take a class I suggest perusing YouTube to get some teaching. Welding Tips and Tricks is a good source. There are plenty others too. And after you have run a few beads on some scrap do everything you can to make them fail. See if you can cause the bead to pull out of the parent metal. See if you can make the bead break. If welded properly the weld bead will be stronger than the parent metal. The parent metal should fail before the weld. The weld bead should not tear out of the parent metal. The pieces welded should fail outside of the heat affected zone. Wirefeed welding is fun. It is generally called MIG welding but actually MIG welding requires gas. Fluxcore, also called Innershield, uses no gas. Dual shield, which uses a fluxcore wire and requires shielding gas, is another type of wirefeed welding. Fluxcore welding is pretty handy when welding in windy conditions but spatters more than MIG. I use fluxcore most often when welding outside and when welding stuff that isn't perfectly clean. Like when I had to build up my backhoe bucket in a few places because it had started to wear through. I know you are going to enjoy your new wirefeed welder.
Eric

 

[California]

... after you have run a few beads on some scrap do everything you can to make them fail. ... If welded properly the weld bead will be stronger than the parent metal. The parent metal should fail before the weld.

I showed some examples of this in a post over on WeldingSite. I had to bend the welded material back on itself, 180 degrees, then hammer it sideways, before it finally tore at the native steel and not at the weld. Then I turned the scraps around and welded the two clean ends together, and bent that 90 degrees, for a picture to show the penetration. Not quite pro quality work but if the weld is stronger than the native metal, then that's sufficient for my farm repairs.

 

[Spike56]

There are people around that have classes. Some classes customized to what you need. Welding Classes

Of course, there are classes "available". I am looking for something akin to a LOCAL continuing ED class, however. I am NOT trying to become a certified welder. The reference you gave is still 2.5hrs drive on way. So, while *possible*, it is impractical.
I had taken a 5-session continuing ED course 10 years ago. It was Stick only but got hands on. The instructor was an experienced welder but was difficult to get his attention during hands-on time. There were (2) females trying to build a BBQ pit and he spent 95% of the shop time with them. Having said that, it was WELL WORTH the money just to get hands-on learn the Very Basics and do some beads. At one time, there were many of these continuing ED classes for various subjects offered mainly at community colleges, high school shops. They seem to have all vanished?
So, when I mentioned "training", I wish I could find one for MIG. Just setup the machine, discuss weld settings, common type issues, a little practice... that's it. I'm sure thru U-tube / other resources I can get myself setup and going. Think I am one of those who just like hands on first.

 

[scootr]

Addressing the OP's comment about not being able to see the rod until it burned down a ways. Mig welding offers same distance burn point because wire is fed into the burn rather than burning the burn point down the rod. I use good light and reading glasses under the hood.

 

[5030]

I equate MIG to a glue gun. So long as the stick out is correct and the attack angle is good, there isn't much to learn. Far as adequate penetration is concerned, just observe the backside of the welded metal to see if it's colored up.

 

[Spike56]

Were it not for "My tractor won't start,what's wrong with it?" and "Which welder should I buy?" weeds would grow up around this site.
There is no one size fits all welder. If you expect meaningful advice,you need to lay out ALL your concerns in post #1,not wait until #22 to say "My biggest problem welding with Stick is my depth perception and when the rod is full length. The shorter it gets, the better my welds. Not just seeing but holding proper distance at the same time." Before discarding your stick try some 3/32 7024 rods on thin metal. You will find it easier to strike , re-strike and hold an arc than other rods. The filler burns out inside flux allowing you to lightly DRAG rod along in contact with work while maintaining arc without sticking rod. Don't manipulate or weave rod,just move along in a straight line while watching puddle and FEELING for arc length.
Mig isn't a magic solution for your problem, it can conceal a bigger problem unless you learn and apply proper techniques same as stick and TIG. It's easy making pretty beads with GMAW but unless properly done the bead is little more than you can get with an electric caulk gun. Play around with the 7024s while weighing other options,all you have to lose is a few dollars worth of rods but you might gain confidence in yourself.

Jaxs, I will try your suggestion, thanks.

 

[etpm]

I showed some examples of this in a post over on WeldingSite. I had to bend the welded material back on itself, 180 degrees, then hammer it sideways, before it finally tore at the native steel and not at the weld. Then I turned the scraps around and welded the two clean ends together, and bent that 90 degrees, for a picture to show the penetration. Not quite pro quality work but if the weld is stronger than the native metal, then that's sufficient for my farm repairs.

You are absolutely correct.
Eric

 

[yomax4]

You can always go to your local welding supply store and tell them you are interested in buying a MIG welder but would like to run one and see if it's right for you. Most LWS stores have a lab or demo room and they " should " be glad to let you mess around in there for a while. They can offer basic tips and show you setup and troubleshooting. Good Luck.

 

[rangerfredbob]

there are some great videos on youtube too to help you get the hang of welder settings (is it weld.com not sure but that guy has some good stuff), many of the newer welders have a chart on the wire spool door that is actually pretty close... I haven't put gas to my home wire welders just flux core which has some shortcomings (but also some benefits like welding outside and in remote locations with just a generator) but it's good to get some practice in playing with wire speed, voltage and travel speed... what's said above about being able to lay some perfect welds just laying on top of the parent metal is true, it's easy to do and will happen here and there... but that's what practice is for...

As for model, I would start with looking at the used market, and maybe doing a regular check on the clearance rack at Harbor Freight, if you can find an open box Titanium MIG 140 or 170 that should suit your needs just fine... I have a Titanium MIG 170 I found open box for $125 somehow a few years ago and it's been a beast, welds great on 110V or 220V and I haven't been able to kill it. Not saying I wouldn't rather have an equivalent Lincoln, Miller or Hobart, but take what you can get...

 

[Spike56]

there are some great videos on youtube too to help you get the hang of welder settings (is it weld.com not sure but that guy has some good stuff), many of the newer welders have a chart on the wire spool door that is actually pretty close... I haven't put gas to my home wire welders just flux core which has some shortcomings (but also some benefits like welding outside and in remote locations with just a generator) but it's good to get some practice in playing with wire speed, voltage and travel speed... what's said above about being able to lay some perfect welds just laying on top of the parent metal is true, it's easy to do and will happen here and there... but that's what practice is for...

As for model, I would start with looking at the used market, and maybe doing a regular check on the clearance rack at Harbor Freight, if you can find an open box Titanium MIG 140 or 170 that should suit your needs just fine... I have a Titanium MIG 170 I found open box for $125 somehow a few years ago and it's been a beast, welds great on 110V or 220V and I haven't been able to kill it. Not saying I wouldn't rather have an equivalent Lincoln, Miller or Hobart, but take what you can get...

Will check although ANY Harbor Freight or other places that might carry used or open box are 30-40 miles away. So, do not get there very often. Yet another source of confusion for me is the type of AC plugs / breakers required. As mentioned in an earlier thread, I have a Miller Stick and a 50A plug (I think it's a 50, been forever since it was installed). I noted for some (all?) of the 110/115/120v machines, some have input current ratings > 20A? Even the 220V machines seem to be silent on the power source PLUG.
Am I missing something here? Perhaps I am over thinking this? I know little about the various power plugs. I ask because I would hate to buy something and upon unboxing find out that I need a different circuit / plug just to get started. For my Miller Stick, the plug is pic attached.
I of course have "standard" 120V plugs available, but these are not rated >20A (I think). One can of course run another circuit, but my shop is a metal building, so this would/supposed to use conduit and "strut channel".
Seems many things I buy these days have "mysterious" and unknown requirements (if you read thru the material after buying it). A few years back, my brother bought one of those collapsible hoses then read "do not leave exposed to the sun". Sheesh.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

I'm 53, got my first welder at 13. I don't have a mig, though I can use one. My dad has a 120 V mig that he used in the chicken houses mainly to repair rooster feed pans. He would have some project to do in the shop, I finally went to the pawn shop and bought him a nice new looking stick welder. Told him, Merry Christmas, Happy Father's Day, Happy Birthday. Which truth be known, I wanted a good stick welder at his shop for me too, when I was there doing something. My brother lives close to dad and he is where we go for the serious welding things. I do all the fitting and prepping, he just does the welding. Only thing I've used mig for lately is welding cast iron. I can arc weld it, but mig works good too. I can arc weld thin metal, exhaust pipe, with 3/32" rod in one hand and a roll of tie wire in the other, under a truck. Plus mig don't like any type of breeze or wind. Think about that when you're in a hot shop in full blast summertime, no fan for you. That's why welding trucks still use welding machines. One guy I weld flange pipe with does it with arc welding. He has three mig rigs at his shop. But we are usually on the road for high pressure gas. Your oxygen acetylene bottles maybe 3000 psi. They test our welds at 15,000 psi. Use Double X pipe, probably 2-3 times thicker than schedule 80.

 

[jaxs]

Yet another source of confusion for me is the type of AC plugs / breakers required. As mentioned in an earlier thread, I have a Miller Stick and a 50A plug (I think it's a 50, been forever since it was installed). I noted for some (all?) of the 110/115/120v machines, some have input current ratings > 20A? Even the 220V machines seem to be silent on the power source PLUG.
Am I missing something here? Perhaps I am over thinking this? I know little about the various power plugs. I ask because I would hate to buy something and upon unboxing find out that I need a different circuit / plug just to get started. For my Miller Stick, the plug is pic attached.

Since you have 50 amps to the shop,you can buy what you want without worrying about electric power or plugs. You have the most popular plug already and if you need something different it will be simple and inexpensive to change so worry about that when and if it's necessary. To get you over some of the confusion, your plug is commonly called a " NEMA 6-50R" which is on most 220volt machines even if they only need 40,30 or 20amps. Just for the record,is your present plug on dedicated wires from house to shop or is it fed from a breaker panel in the shop along with some 110 volt plugs and lights?

 

[Spike56]

Since you have 50 amps to the shop,you can buy what you want without worrying about electric power or plugs. You have the most popular plug already and if you need something different it will be simple and inexpensive to change so worry about that when and if it's necessary. To get you over some of the confusion, your plug is commonly called a " NEMA 6-50R" which is on most 220volt machines even if they only need 40,30 or 20amps. Just for the record,is your present plug on dedicated wires from house to shop or is it fed from a breaker panel in the shop along with some 110 volt plugs and lights?

I have (2) meter loops here. One house, one for the shop. The shop has a separate panel (100a, I think) and the circuit for the welder runs to the 50A plug, but also has (2) 120V plugs on the same wires just above. There are additional 120v plugs and a couple of lights - which I need to upgrade to get better light.
I was really wondering about the 120V capable wire machines. It does not appear that a "normal" 120V circuit should/can be used? Yes, I could swap out the 50A plug, but if I keep my Stick welder, then I would not have a plug for it. So, if I understand this correctly, I will still need/want a dedicated additional plug?
I am still considering a wire machine but will not pull the trigger until I try JAX suggestion to try 7024 (3/32) rods on the Stick. Perhaps, with additional patience and practice I can use these more effectively and forgo the wire machine. Wish I would have bought a Mig/Wire to begin with, I think. Just about ALL projects are Thin Wall 1/2 square tubing. It is one of my infrequent hobbies. Unlike some, I am NOT working in the shop every day. Hopefully, retire this year and wanting to buy anything I may want soon. Truth be told, like buying a computer, it is often difficult to "know" what you are going to do with it - as people often ask. Only thing I "think" is I could do my known projects easier with a MIG or Flux Core machine.