If it's cold where you live, what are you heating with and what is it costing?

[MossRoad]

Why are all these hypotheticals being introduced into a persons response?

The OP asked a simple question. What do YOU heat with and what is YOUR cost.

A person responds with a simple answer and it gets torn apart by others telling him his answer is wrong because he didn't include some hypothetical situation into his costs, which would make his real costs much higher.

Lets assume I heat with 10 cords of wood and state that my cost is $500 per year plus 100 hrs labor. So my cost is $500. WRONG! My real cost is much higher because I could have sold that 10 cords of wood for $2,500, so my real cost is $2,000. But wait, we forgot to include my time. I am a retired lawyer (not really) and I used to charge $400 hr for my time. So I could have gone back to work and made $40,000 in 100 hrs. Therefore my real cost is $42,000. Boy I did I ever get the answer wrong.

To my way of thinking, my real cost = my actual cost. Not some hypothetical cost.

Here is my answer: I heat with wood, burn about 5 - 6 cords a year and my cost is about $200.

Have at it.

The simple answer is:

You could have made better use of your time for the dollar.


That's speaking purely from a kid raised by people that lived through the depression who had to take into account how every action either cost or made them money.

From an enjoyment and satisfaction point of view, you came out ahead.

 

[jjeff]

42 k for making 10 cords?? I hope those are full cords .
More serious though Imho, by folks "drifting" they are able to share actual experiences and additional knowledge they have, only kind of related to the original subject matter, I'm guilty of doing it sometimes to the extreme, mostly me being obnoxious, however if folks actually read the drifted hypothetical posts they may pick up additional information that's valuable to them that they didn't even think of, I know I have many times, plus it keeps some posts interesting, for me anyway. I wonder how many people use the search function to find previously talked about subjects, and or use it to add to an old forgotten thread, but don't want to start a new thread for a small piece of knowledge they learned?

 

[LD1]

Why are all these hypotheticals being introduced into a persons response?

The OP asked a simple question. What do YOU heat with and what is YOUR cost.

A person responds with a simple answer and it gets torn apart by others telling him his answer is wrong because he didn't include some hypothetical situation into his costs, which would make his real costs much higher.

Lets assume I heat with 10 cords of wood and state that my cost is $500 per year plus 100 hrs labor. So my cost is $500. WRONG! My real cost is much higher because I could have sold that 10 cords of wood for $2,500, so my real cost is $2,000. But wait, we forgot to include my time. I am a retired lawyer (not really) and I used to charge $400 hr for my time. So I could have gone back to work and made $40,000 in 100 hrs. Therefore my real cost is $42,000. Boy I did I ever get the answer wrong.

To my way of thinking, my real cost = my actual cost. Not some hypothetical cost.

Here is my answer: I heat with wood, burn about 5 - 6 cords a year and my cost is about $200.

Have at it.

Realized vs unrealized costs my friend.

You are correct in that your "Actual" cost is only $200. And thats fine and I dont care and your happy.

The only issue I have is when people then want to brag about how much money they save heating with wood vs NG or a heat pump.

THATS when the argument comes into play about how much value the wood has. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Oaktree]

The only issue I have is when people then want to brag about how much money they save heating with wood vs NG or a heat pump.

THATS when the argument comes into play about how much value the wood has. Nothing more, nothing less.

But that could be said for any DIY activity, from auto maintenance to raising (some of) your own food. Few if any of those save you money if you count your time as a wasted opportunity to earn money. The "savings" come from the satisfaction of doing it yourself, and that's very much an individual choice.

 

[MossRoad]

Of course it could be said of any activity. Firewood is just the topic of the day.

 

[Hilbilly]

The simple answer is:

You could have made better use of your time for the dollar.


That's speaking purely from a kid raised by people that lived through the depression who had to take into account how every action either cost or made them money.

From an enjoyment and satisfaction point of view, you came out ahead.

I believe the question was; How do you heat and what is your cost? I fail to see how your simple answer is in fact an answer to the question that was posed.

I find it odd that some stranger is telling me that I could make better use of my time, when they don't know me or how I use my time. After all, it is my time and I believe I made excellent use of it. I suppose I could have made better use of it by spending the $200 on beer and sitting around a nice warm campfire. But that wouldn't work because then I would have spent all the money on beer and would have none left for firewood.

 

[jjeff]

Well without putting my foot in my mouth again. As others have also said I truly enjoy making wood always have, always will. For me anyway the costs invested in equipment to make wood myself has paid for itself in terms of heating cost savings, especially when I can cut down trees in my backyard,
the energy efficiency of what your trying to heat with what your using to heat is important also, best thing about cutting wood when your using a chainsaw is no one bothers you. I understand some folks can no longer make wood and when that time comes I'll probably not enjoy burning wood as much.

 

[ovrszd]

Why are all these hypotheticals being introduced into a persons response?

The OP asked a simple question. What do YOU heat with and what is YOUR cost.

A person responds with a simple answer and it gets torn apart by others telling him his answer is wrong because he didn't include some hypothetical situation into his costs, which would make his real costs much higher.

Lets assume I heat with 10 cords of wood and state that my cost is $500 per year plus 100 hrs labor. So my cost is $500. WRONG! My real cost is much higher because I could have sold that 10 cords of wood for $2,500, so my real cost is $2,000. But wait, we forgot to include my time. I am a retired lawyer (not really) and I used to charge $400 hr for my time. So I could have gone back to work and made $40,000 in 100 hrs. Therefore my real cost is $42,000. Boy I did I ever get the answer wrong.

To my way of thinking, my real cost = my actual cost. Not some hypothetical cost.

Here is my answer: I heat with wood, burn about 5 - 6 cords a year and my cost is about $200.

Have at it.

That was a lengthy speech to get to the answer that you are accusing others of not getting to......

 

[ovrszd]

I believe the question was; How do you heat and what is your cost? I fail to see how your simple answer is in fact an answer to the question that was posed.

I find it odd that some stranger is telling me that I could make better use of my time, when they don't know me or how I use my time. After all, it is my time and I believe I made excellent use of it. I suppose I could have made better use of it by spending the $200 on beer and sitting around a nice warm campfire. But that wouldn't work because then I would have spent all the money on beer and would have none left for firewood.

And here you are again.....

This is what this type of thread is designed to produce. Dialogue. Discussion. Debate.

And now you are participating as most others have before you.

 

[ovrszd]

Well without putting my foot in my mouth again. As others have also said I truly enjoy making wood always have, always will. For me anyway the costs invested in equipment to make wood myself has paid for itself in terms of heating cost savings, especially when I can cut down trees in my backyard,
the energy efficiency of what your trying to heat with what your using to heat is important also, best thing about cutting wood when your using a chainsaw is no one bothers you. I understand some folks can no longer make wood and when that time comes I'll probably not enjoy burning wood as much.

In regards to the bold text above.

It doesn't matter what you heat a poorly insulated building with.

It doesn't matter what you heat a well insulated building with.

 

[LD1]

But that could be said for any DIY activity, from auto maintenance to raising (some of) your own food. Few if any of those save you money if you count your time as a wasted opportunity to earn money. The "savings" come from the satisfaction of doing it yourself, and that's very much an individual choice.

Yes and no....

I'm not specifically talking about labor, and making better use of ones time. Like the case with auto maintenance.

I'm specifically talking about the value of the wood, not the labor. So it's not "time" or "wasted opportunity.

But raising your own food.....either cattle, pork, or gardening.....yes that is an excellent comparison. Because you are "consuming" something that has value to others as well

And just as with firewood.....people do it because they either love it, or have free time to do it, or like the quality better, etc etc. But I have NEVER heard anyone brag about how much money they save gardening or raising cattle.

That's the point I'm making. I could careless what you heat with. Just don't try and stroke your ego and convince others how much money you save by burning wood. You can love the heat, like the exercise, enjoy the cutting, etc. Just don't fool yourself into thinking your saving thousands unless you're factoring wood value.

 

[cqaigy2]

I can't tell you how much money i've saved on meat when i was hunting.

 

[Jstpssng]

Why are all these hypotheticals being introduced into a persons response?

The OP asked a simple question. What do YOU heat with and what is YOUR cost.

A person responds with a simple answer and it gets torn apart by others telling him his answer is wrong because he didn't include some hypothetical situation into his costs, which would make his real costs much higher.

Lets assume I heat with 10 cords of wood and state that my cost is $500 per year plus 100 hrs labor. So my cost is $500. WRONG! My real cost is much higher because I could have sold that 10 cords of wood for $2,500, so my real cost is $2,000. But wait, we forgot to include my time. I am a retired lawyer (not really) and I used to charge $400 hr for my time. So I could have gone back to work and made $40,000 in 100 hrs. Therefore my real cost is $42,000. Boy I did I ever get the answer wrong.

To my way of thinking, my real cost = my actual cost. Not some hypothetical cost.

Here is my answer: I heat with wood, burn about 5 - 6 cords a year and my cost is about $200.

Have at it.

500$/cord? For that money I would sell also.

 

[jjeff]

In regards to the bold text above.

It doesn't matter what you heat a poorly insulated building with.

It doesn't matter what you heat a well insulated building with.

However imo it matters how much fuel you have to use to heat the building.

 

[BoylermanCT]

Prices are regional. Use prices in your area and compile your own chart and see what works best in your area.
But what would transportation cost be for him to go all the way to CT to save $150/cord on firewood?

But thats not the point. Everyone can "twist" the numbers to show their bias in the results. As in your bias towards firewood being the best option, when clearly it is NOT the best option for Carl

LD1, as for bias, when is simple math bias? I'm an accountant, and math does not lie... it just may come up with an answer that does not fit you personal opinion and preferences. That said, I get that some people don't want the hassle of firewood, the explosive tendencies of natural gas and propane etc, so different methods of heating are better that others depending on what you characteristic you are looking for.

I was surprised by the price difference between CT and NH which are relatively close together geographically and share the same forested topography.

 

[LD1]

LD1, as for bias, when is simple math bias? I'm an accountant, and math does not lie... it just may come up with an answer that does not fit you personal opinion and preferences. That said, I get that some people don't want the hassle of firewood, the explosive tendencies of natural gas and propane etc, so different methods of heating are better that others depending on what you characteristic you are looking for.

I was surprised by the price difference between CT and NH which are relatively close together geographically and share the same forested topography.

When I say bias it wasn't personal. Firewood is a wildcard. Because there are so many variables.

A gallon of propane in California is a gallon of propane in Maine. A kwh is the same in Texas ad it is in PA.

Wood.....totally different. We can only estimate btu per cord and furnace efficiency. Variables like moisture content, wood species, etc.

Then costs vary widely. So inserting your numbers and think they are accurate for someone a few states away is the bias I refer to.

 

[MossRoad]

I believe the question was; How do you heat and what is your cost? I fail to see how your simple answer is in fact an answer to the question that was posed.

I find it odd that some stranger is telling me that I could make better use of my time, when they don't know me or how I use my time. After all, it is my time and I believe I made excellent use of it. I suppose I could have made better use of it by spending the $200 on beer and sitting around a nice warm campfire. But that wouldn't work because then I would have spent all the money on beer and would have none left for firewood.

You said "Have at it."

I 'had at it'.

 

[MossRoad]

I can't tell you how much money i've saved on meat when i was hunting.

That's something I'm considering taking up. We own a deer factory.

 

[LD1]

That's something I'm considering taking up. We own a deer factory.

Unless you plan on butchering the deer yourself, you won't save money

 

[ovrszd]

However imo it matters how much fuel you have to use to heat the building.

Yep. That was my point.