E-15 fuel in your area?

[MossRoad]

This is false because a lot of plastics and rubber components were never designed to be compatible, there was a transition period and items (mostly small engines, can’t think of a automobile engine) had to be upgraded to compatible components. Not much room for debate on that one

You're showing your age. E10 has been around since the early 80s and most small engine manuals tell you that the engine is designed to run on up to 10% ethanol. That's 40 years. You can't think of a car engine because they've all been designed to run on it as well.

 

[sea2summit]

You're showing your age. E10 has been around since the early 80s and most small engine manuals tell you that the engine is designed to run on up to 10% ethanol. That's 40 years. You can't think of a car engine because they've all been designed to run on it as well.

This is the last small engine I adopted, the replacement recoil starter is from the 80’s the rest is older. Is what I said incorrect if stuff since the 80’s is compatible? We’re there no engines prior to the 80’s? Who’s got the ego?

 

[MossRoad]

Again, you're talking about 40 year old engines.

 

[JethroB]

The price of corn has pretty much doubled in the last 18 months or so. It hovered roughly at $4 a bushel for about a decade except for a few swings. Now it’s $8/bushel. Gas prices have to be pretty high to support $8 corn based ethanol, which we’ve had recently.
Approximately 40 percent of US corn production is used for making ethanol, 40 percent for animal feed, the remaining 20 percent for everything else.

 

[jjeff]

I believe ethanol was only mandated in the early 90s in urban areas with poor air quality and started in most other areas in the late 90s early 2000s? it did take some time to get the infrastructure set up for ethanol plants. I immediately replace all fuel lines anyway if I buy something over 20 yrs old. The only fuel hose that I found that is remotely resistant to years of ethanol use in small engines is Tygon its yellowish transparent and is marked Tygon, it even remains flexible after years of use in very cold climates. Most other black rubber hose I've bought and seen says its rated for ethanol. I have no Idea how either will stand up to E15 not to mention all small and marine engine manufacturers tell you specifically not to use anything more than e10. ive had cheaper hose in more recent times mostly from chineese small engines that became hard and brittle after a few months of ethanol use. Ethanol blended fuel is corrosive I can tell you from seeing it first hand do not buy a Boat with a fiberglass fuel tank.

 

[ericm979]

That's kind of misleading.

E100 (pure ethanol) has about 76,000 BTU per gallon.
Pure gasoline has about 114,000 BTU per gallon.
E10 (10% ethanol 90% gasoline) has about 111,800 BTU per gallon.

111,800 is 98.07% of 114,000.

Less than 2% difference in BTU.

Sorry but that's not correct.

E0 114k btu/gal
E100 76k btu/gal

For E10:
.9 * 114 = 102.6
.1 * 76 = 7.6
total: 110.2k btu/gal

114 - 110.2 = 3.8
3.8 / 114 = 3% less BTUs for E10.

But my point was that just looking at the BTUs it's only 3%, not 10-20%.

 

[sea2summit]

Again, you're talking about 40 year old engines.

In response to your blanket system that there were no issues.

 

[dodge man]

I was on vacation recently and there were some gas stations that had a huge selection. Like E10, E15, E20, E85. Can’t remember where, Kansas, Oklahoma or Nebraska maybe? I’ve run E10 for years and never a problem IF you burn it up reasonably fast. I by pure gas for small engine’s because I have had problems in the past, luckily I can buy it at the pump around here but at a higher price.

 

[dieselade]

well,,,, around 2005-6-7-, corn was dangerously close to $2 a bushels cash off the farm. at one time I was offered around $1.70 or close to that. The govt gave any farmer who sold corn under $2 support money to bring the price a farmer received to $2. bad times right in that time zone. only fair thing was all the farmer inputs to grow a crop of corn and also beans ( i dont know what wheat growers got) also was low unlike today. Good times for livestock farmers/ranchers. the grain farmers are good about growing corn and soybeans and at that time the u.s. had a very large surplus of corn. we couldnt even give it away to other countries. so,,,, thankfully a few entrepreneurs got going with ethanol to add to gasoline as an oxygenate instead of that poison MTBE. and dont forget that after ethanol is funneled out of the corn kernal, the leftovers go to livestock feed and whatever else.

 

[MossRoad]

While I can appreciate what ethanol has done for corn farmers and replacing MTBE, when you look at the facts, converting corn to ethanol is a terrible waste of BTUs, just like converting oil into gasoline.

I've posted the details before, so this is a repeat.

 

[JethroB]

well,,,, around 2005-6-7-, corn was dangerously close to $2 a bushels cash off the farm. at one time I was offered around $1.70 or close to that. The govt gave any farmer who sold corn under $2 support money to bring the price a farmer received to $2. bad times right in that time zone. only fair thing was all the farmer inputs to grow a crop of corn and also beans ( i dont know what wheat growers got) also was low unlike today. Good times for livestock farmers/ranchers. the grain farmers are good about growing corn and soybeans and at that time the u.s. had a very large surplus of corn. we couldnt even give it away to other countries. so,,,, thankfully a few entrepreneurs got going with ethanol to add to gasoline as an oxygenate instead of that poison MTBE. and dont forget that after ethanol is funneled out of the corn kernal, the leftovers go to livestock feed and whatever else.

I can remember selling corn to the local co-op GK in 1976 for $2.35 a bushel. My FFA project for 3 years and using my dad’s MF 135 and an old two row JD corn planter. The last year I was up to 25 acres and got aflatoxin in the corn. Had to mow it all down. That ended my farming career.

 

[Oaktree]

Vehicles prohibited from using E15:

• All motorcycles
• All vehicles with heavy-duty engines, such as school buses and delivery trucks
• All off-road vehicles, such as boats and snowmobiles
• All engines in off-road equipment, such as chain saws and gasoline lawn mowers
• All conventional vehicles older than model year 2001.

I'm a bit curious here about the use of "prohibited". Is it illegal to use E15 in these, or just not recommended? "Prohibited" seems to imply the former, but that seems a bit extreme and impossible to enforce.

I've been running E10 87 octane since the mid 80's in everything I own until a recent chainsaw purchase requires 89. Two stroke, four stroke, doesn't matter. I've never had any problems that can be traced to ethanol. Why? Because I either run the machines often enough to turn the fuel over regularly, or, I follow the manufacturer's recommendations for long term storage.

I'd guess 99% of problems that people think are caused by ethanol are actually caused by poor maintenance practices.

I'm with you. I do sometimes put non-E gas in my ATV since it doesn't get used a lot, but it's fuel-injected and hasn't given me any stale gas issues. I use E-10 in my snowmobile, and it always starts right up after having sat for 9 months. Never had any issues with other small engines and they always get E-10.
Non-E gas is $1+/gallon more than E-10, not worth it to me.
As far as E-15, don't know if it's being sold here or not, how would I tell? Are stations required to post it? Never seen E85.

 

[MossRoad]

I'm a bit curious here about the use of "prohibited". Is it illegal to use E15 in these, or just not recommended? "Prohibited" seems to imply the former, but that seems a bit extreme and impossible to enforce.

I'm with you. I do sometimes put non-E gas in my ATV since it doesn't get used a lot, but it's fuel-injected and hasn't given me any stale gas issues. I use E-10 in my snowmobile, and it always starts right up after having sat for 9 months. Never had any issues with other small engines and they always get E-10.
Non-E gas is $1+/gallon more than E-10, not worth it to me.
As far as E-15, don't know if it's being sold here or not, how would I tell? Are stations required to post it? Never seen E85.

I've seen E15 out west, I believe in OK.
We have E85 in quite a few places. Our 2013 Impala is flex fuel capable, so I could run anything, E10, E15, up to E85 if I wanted to. I've never run it.

Back when the car was still under warranty, I got a dash message that there was water in the fuel. Took it to dealer. The sensor that detects the amount of ethanol in the fuel was bad. It would have been a $600 part. Yikes.

 

[3930dave]

The ethanol industry has been pushing for E15 for years. No one else wants it. It actually produces more CO2 than the equivalent amount of gasoline, mostly due to the way it's farmed:

Not a fan of E, I've posted on that in other threads, so won't repeat....

Rainy morning here, so was catching up on my global reading......

Adding to the "farmed" issue today, Russia and China produce something like 2/3 of the World's fertilizer and related component products.

In "good" times, corn as fuel has some negative points; That ^ reality today makes the story even more sketchy, IMO.

Rgds, D.

 

[TMBRWLF]

I haven't seen it around me. It seems to be a resoundingly bad idea. Our Kohler engine distributor reiterated that it was not suitable in OPE.

E15​

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) defines E15 as gasoline blended with 10.5% to 15% ethanol. In 2011, EPA approved E15 for use in light-duty conventional vehicles of model year 2001 and newer, through a Clean Air Act waiver request, based on significant testing and research funded by the U.S. Department of Energy. Stations are not required to sell E15, but some have started offering E15 due to state and federal incentives for upgrading equipment and better profit margins when compared with regular gasoline. E15 is available in 30 states at just over 2,400 stations. E10 remains the limit for passenger vehicles older than model year 2001 and for other non-road and small engines and vehicles that use gasoline, such as lawn mowers, motorcycles, and boats.

Vehicles approved for E15 use:

• Flexible fuel vehicles
• Conventional vehicles of model year 2001 and newer.

Vehicles prohibited from using E15:

• All motorcycles
• All vehicles with heavy-duty engines, such as school buses and delivery trucks
• All off-road vehicles, such as boats and snowmobiles
• All engines in off-road equipment, such as chain saws and gasoline lawn mowers
• All conventional vehicles older than model year 2001.

There are additional regulations for stations selling blends above E10. For more information, visit the Codes, Standards, and Safety page.

Alternative Fuels Data Center: E15

Central Mo our stations have E10. It only goes in my truck. ALL powered equipment l run gets 91 Efree. More $$$ but so are repairs...

 

[Surshot]

We, after a $12k boat engine rebuild, stopped buying ethanol gas for anything but the regular use road vehicles, setup specifically to run ethanol added Regular gasoline.
I looked up the map for available E-15 here bouts in NW FL some time ago, Military base gas stations, by executive order…… If you are the CIC you can order anything.

 

[JRH02]

In today's headlines: 3 ways ethanol brings down gas prices

It must be true. Its spoken by an elected official: "I’m continuing to work with my colleagues on the bipartisan House Biofuels Caucus...." She must know what she's talking about.

Ever since ethanol was added to gasoline I have been preaching about this error. But most people really don't give a flip and just follow along with what they've been told. Heck, most people know nothing about their mileage except what was on the sticker when they bought the vehicle. But they sure like to complain about something they've devoted no brain cells toward.

 

[JWR]

Nearly all of the last 36 posts are needless spinning of wheels and distractions from the main underlying truth & problem:

• The govt once had what seemed like a well intentioned thrust to put ethanol in gasoline. Renewable fuels. More supply.
• Within 10 years or less from starting the experiment, every technically informed person in the world knew several things:
  • That ethanol was causing major grief with small engines, chain saws, boat motors, etc. as well as reduced efficiency.
  • That ethanol was putting upward pressure on food costs (meat, anything with corn in it, etc.)
  • That , worst of all, it takes (total picture) more fossil fuel to make a gallon of ethanol tainted gas than it does to leave it alone and make plain old gasoline (!!!) so the underlying advertised purpose was hurt rather than aided. FAILURE.
  • That the govt will never ever admit making a major mistake and rescind it.
  • That the only people making very much off the process are companies mixing the gas (I read around $150M/year) and big AG companies that are about as much like farmers as you and I are like cats.
  • And in my current frame of mind I add, "Duh!!"

 

[Username Taken]

Just last week I tested the gas I got at my local station, no corn products thankfully, only gas. Here's hoping it never shows up.
Stupid question, if all the stations in a particular area only sell regular E85, does that mean you've got to run hi test in everything that's not E85 approved?, that'll go over like a lead brick, more $$$$............Mike

Gasoline has to have additives in it. Otherwise, your car engine won't run right at all.

If they're not using ethanol, they're using something else. Sometimes that 'something' is worse, far worse, for your engine than ethanol. Which, I can't quite understand why ethanol is so bad. whatev

Anyway, where I like to spend my Summers in Michigan, pure alcohol at gas pumps (at least I think it's pure or close to it) is very common. Maybe because there's a bunch of big ethanol plants in the area.

So I tried some in my Eco-Friendly F-150 with a Coyote V8. Ran like a striped-assed ape. Fast. But, hoo-boy, did it ever go through some fuel. Thought I had a leak!

I heard somewhere that high content alcohol fuel and turbochargers don't get along well. Don't know. If I replace my Cummins with an EcoBeast, I'll look into it. With today's technology, about the time you figure it out, it's already obsolete. So I don't bother anymore.

 

[JRH02]

• • That , worst of all, it takes (total picture) more fossil fuel to make a gallon of ethanol tainted gas than it does to leave it alone and make plain old gasoline (!!!) so the underlying advertised purpose was hurt rather than aided. FAILURE.

Add to that, even if you can purchase "pure" gasoline it still isn't that. If you want an eye opener try running your tank down low and pour in a jug of non-ethanol fuel from VP (C20 90 octane), CAM2, etc. I'm not talking about their high octane stuff. The fuel at the pump is crap is comparison. My point being that our fuels could be of much better quality than they are. But its been a frog-in-the-boiling-water thing as fuels have increasingly less BTUs per gallon.