New rules for ethanol in gasoline

   / New rules for ethanol in gasoline #121  
I don't know if its still the case but I am assuming yes... when they first came out with the 10% ethanol (mostly base off corn) the corn price sky rocketed for corn products having devastating impact for the lower income population... is this still the case and what will be the effect of a addition 5% in demand ?
 
   / New rules for ethanol in gasoline #123  
Ah, it was the range of temperature charts. I had trouble blowing it up enough to read them to tell the bottoms. Anywho... that's my story and I'm sticking to it. :sneaky:
 
   / New rules for ethanol in gasoline #124  
Ah, it was the range of temperature charts. I had trouble blowing it up enough to read them to tell the bottoms. Anywho... that's my story and I'm sticking to it. :sneaky:
Ha ha, i couldn't read them at all and i guessed on that one and figured which one had to be the one.
 
   / New rules for ethanol in gasoline #125  
Ha ha, i couldn't read them at all and i guessed on that one and figured which one had to be the one.
I figured it was Chicago, because it had the lower, but the other city on the right went higher. They were so close that they looked equal to me, so I picked the width of all three was the range of the measurements, not the range of the temperatures.
 
   / New rules for ethanol in gasoline #126  
It really wasn't much of a test.
 
   / New rules for ethanol in gasoline #128  
Problem with ethanol in gasoline is when you get much water. The water and alcohol will separate out in a 2nd liquid phase. It'll probably "burn"/combust but will cause sputters, probably almost as bad as water droplet sputters in all gasoline.

Think a further problem is with 2 cycle stuff. Oil would tend to make the ethanol want to come out of solution as well.

Don't know for a fact about the above, just surmissing what I know from my chemical engineering training and experience.
 
   / New rules for ethanol in gasoline #129  
Problem with ethanol in gasoline is when you get much water. The water and alcohol will separate out in a 2nd liquid phase. It'll probably "burn"/combust but will cause sputters, probably almost as bad as water droplet sputters in all gasoline.

Think a further problem is with 2 cycle stuff. Oil would tend to make the ethanol want to come out of solution as well.

Don't know for a fact about the above, just surmissing what I know from my chemical engineering training and experience.
I used to have to add HEET to our gas tanks in winter to prevent water in the fuel from freezing. I haven't had to do that since the late 80s using E10. Why? The alcohol in E10 prevents the water from freezing. Same as HEET.

So many people keep bringing up the phase separation issue. It's a non-issue if you follow the manufacturer's recommendations about fuel storage.

From here:

(bold me)

The research found that the petroleum components of ethanol-blended gasoline become degraded and unfit for use in an engine long before the ethanol portion takes up enough water to cause phase separation in the fuel tank.

“In a small engine fuel tank in a constantly high-temperature, high-humidity environment, it takes three months or longer for E10 and other ethanol blends to take up enough water for phase separation,” says NREL. “This confirms the statement by Mercury Marine that water uptake in E10 blends ‘does not happen at a level or rate that is relevant.’”

“Every manufacturer of small and off-road engines has approved the use of E10 in their equipment for many years,” said Bob Dinneen, president of the Renewable Fuels Association (RFA), who requested the study.

"If owners of this equipment simply follow the manufacturers’ recommendations for fuel, maintenance and winterization, they won’t have any issues at all. But, as this study shows, letting gasoline sit in your tank for extended periods of time is likely to cause some issues – irrespective of whether the gasoline contains ethanol or not.”
 
   / New rules for ethanol in gasoline #130  
I used to have to add HEET to our gas tanks in winter to prevent water in the fuel from freezing. I haven't had to do that since the late 80s using E10. Why? The alcohol in E10 prevents the water from freezing. Same as HEET.

So many people keep bringing up the phase separation issue. It's a non-issue if you follow the manufacturer's recommendations about fuel storage.

From here:

(bold me)

The research found that the petroleum components of ethanol-blended gasoline become degraded and unfit for use in an engine long before the ethanol portion takes up enough water to cause phase separation in the fuel tank.

“In a small engine fuel tank in a constantly high-temperature, high-humidity environment, it takes three months or longer for E10 and other ethanol blends to take up enough water for phase separation,” says NREL. “This confirms the statement by Mercury Marine that water uptake in E10 blends ‘does not happen at a level or rate that is relevant.’”

“Every manufacturer of small and off-road engines has approved the use of E10 in their equipment for many years,” said Bob Dinneen, president of the Renewable Fuels Association (RFA), who requested the study.

"If owners of this equipment simply follow the manufacturers’ recommendations for fuel, maintenance and winterization, they won’t have any issues at all. But, as this study shows, letting gasoline sit in your tank for extended periods of time is likely to cause some issues – irrespective of whether the gasoline contains ethanol or not.”
Dang it, you gotta quit making sense! Pretty soon people will start expecting some highfalutin thinking on this form. 😅
 
   / New rules for ethanol in gasoline #132  
Oh sure, i'm guessing you spouting some engine manufacturing test and studies, trumps the opinion of my buddy down the road, that heard from a friends sister's brother's uncle's boss, read on a tractor forum.....:unsure:;)

I'd forgotten all about adding HEET when the temps got low.
 
   / New rules for ethanol in gasoline #133  
Oh sure, i'm guessing you spouting some engine manufacturing test and studies, trumps the opinion of my buddy down the road, that heard from a friends sister's brother's uncle's boss, read on a tractor forum.....:unsure:;)

I'd forgotten all about adding HEET when the temps got low.
Yeah, we used to run Heet in all of our snowmobile’s, But we ran it because of the condensation that gathers in the tank. I would also carry little test kits to see how much water we had in the fuel. Running some pretty high horsepower motors before EFI came around to adjust fuel air mixes automatically.
 
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   / New rules for ethanol in gasoline #134  
This applies not only to small engines but gas tractors and motorcycles as well..

The EPA changed their requirement for corn alcohol in gasoline in certain states, effective in 2023. The states of Iowa, Illinois, Minnesota, Ohio, Nebraska. South Dakota and Wisconsin.

Keep in mind that anything over 10% by volume of corn alcohol added to gasoline spells death for small engines. They aren't designed and don't have the fuel systems capable of handling anymore than 10%

The petroleum producers also warned the EPA that the additional corn alcohol would increase the cost per gallon in those states as well, of course the EPA didn't listen.

You cannot pipeline e-gas as it's corrosive to pipelines. It has to be blended in at the refinery and road trucked to filling stations.

I think we all know what 10% e-gas does (without the addition of a stabilizer) now. 15% will be worse.

I already switched my chainsaws and weed trimmers over to syn fuel. It's expensive but I'm tired of dealing with gunked carbs and failed fuel lines on seasonal and occasional use gas powered equipment.
Find a local GASOLINE dealer and fill up with their premium 91 octane. Your little darlings will love you for it....and add your additives if you like. I like 91 as my equipment starts easier and runs better regardless of all the data out there identifying the differences in regular and premium. Course some filling stations around here only stock the 87 but that's better than E10 or above.
 

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