E-15 fuel in your area?

[tomplum]

I haven't seen it around me. It seems to be a resoundingly bad idea. Our Kohler engine distributor reiterated that it was not suitable in OPE.

E15​

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) defines E15 as gasoline blended with 10.5% to 15% ethanol. In 2011, EPA approved E15 for use in light-duty conventional vehicles of model year 2001 and newer, through a Clean Air Act waiver request, based on significant testing and research funded by the U.S. Department of Energy. Stations are not required to sell E15, but some have started offering E15 due to state and federal incentives for upgrading equipment and better profit margins when compared with regular gasoline. E15 is available in 30 states at just over 2,400 stations. E10 remains the limit for passenger vehicles older than model year 2001 and for other non-road and small engines and vehicles that use gasoline, such as lawn mowers, motorcycles, and boats.

Vehicles approved for E15 use:

• Flexible fuel vehicles
• Conventional vehicles of model year 2001 and newer.

Vehicles prohibited from using E15:

• All motorcycles
• All vehicles with heavy-duty engines, such as school buses and delivery trucks
• All off-road vehicles, such as boats and snowmobiles
• All engines in off-road equipment, such as chain saws and gasoline lawn mowers
• All conventional vehicles older than model year 2001.

There are additional regulations for stations selling blends above E10. For more information, visit the Codes, Standards, and Safety page.

Alternative Fuels Data Center: E15

 

[MossRoad]

No. We have E10, and E85.

Oddly, E85 is now about 40 cents per gallon more expensive than E10.

 

[jjeff]

I attempted to find more info on E10 blended fuel yrs ago trying to figure out why my mpgs dropped 10-20% when I started using E10 still haven't found a valid compelling argument. I can't understand why blending fuel will reduce oil consumption for gasoline when you just need to burn more of it to travel the same distance. I won't even get started on all the small engine problems, that in a smaller scale the average middle class person has to deal with out of pocket.

 

[ericm979]

Ethanol has about 2/3 the BTUs of gasoline. Mileage with E10 would drop by 2/3 of 10% or 3.3%, assuming the air/fuel mixture stays the same. On a vehicle with EFI and an O2 sensor, the ECU will adjust fuel to keep the O2 level in the correct range. That may mean more fuel consumption than that 3.3% from the fuel chemistry. 20% mileage drop seems excessive however.

We're not seeing E15 here in my part of CA yet, fortunately.

The ethanol industry has been pushing for E15 for years. No one else wants it. It actually produces more CO2 than the equivalent amount of gasoline, mostly due to the way it's farmed:

U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds

Corn-based ethanol, which for years has been mixed in huge quantities into gasoline sold at U.S. pumps, is likely a much bigger contributor to global warming than straight gasoline, according to a study published Monday.

www.reuters.com

 

[jjeff]

Thanks that was a great response. My truck at the time was a old Toyota with earlier efi. Does burning E10 with a 3-5% reduction in mpgs reduce or increase CO2 output what about the resources, energy, and carbon output it takes to manufacture corn based ethanol?

 

[jjeff]

Ok re read the article thanks again. Lol I tried to find my answers years ago before the internet was prevalent, worse fuel mileage, and formerly reliable two strokes were getting rebuilt/ rebored/ replated constantly with pretty bad scoring on the exhaust port side.

 

[MossRoad]

That's kind of misleading.

E100 (pure ethanol) has about 76,000 BTU per gallon.
Pure gasoline has about 114,000 BTU per gallon.
E10 (10% ethanol 90% gasoline) has about 111,800 BTU per gallon.

111,800 is 98.07% of 114,000.

Less than 2% difference in BTU.

 

[MossRoad]

That's kind of misleading.

E100 (pure ethanol) has about 76,000 BTU per gallon.
Pure gasoline has about 114,000 BTU per gallon.
E10 (10% ethanol 90% gasoline) has about 111,800 BTU per gallon.

111,800 is 98.07% of 114,000.

Less than 2% difference in BTU.

Put another way, if your car gets 30mpg on pure gasoline, it will get 29.4mpg on E10.

 

[MossRoad]

I've been running E10 87 octane since the mid 80's in everything I own until a recent chainsaw purchase requires 89. Two stroke, four stroke, doesn't matter. I've never had any problems that can be traced to ethanol. Why? Because I either run the machines often enough to turn the fuel over regularly, or, I follow the manufacturer's recommendations for long term storage.

I'd guess 99% of problems that people think are caused by ethanol are actually caused by poor maintenance practices.

 

[mrmikey]

Just last week I tested the gas I got at my local station, no corn products thankfully, only gas. Here's hoping it never shows up.
Stupid question, if all the stations in a particular area only sell regular E85, does that mean you've got to run hi test in everything that's not E85 approved?, that'll go over like a lead brick, more $$$$............Mike

 

[jjeff]

That's kind of misleading.

E100 (pure ethanol) has about 76,000 BTU per gallon.
Pure gasoline has about 114,000 BTU per gallon.
E10 (10% ethanol 90% gasoline) has about 111,800 BTU per gallon.

111,800 is 98.07% of 114,000.

Less than 2% difference in BTU.

I've been running E10 87 octane since the mid 80's in everything I own until a recent chainsaw purchase requires 89. Two stroke, four stroke, doesn't matter. I've never had any problems that can be traced to ethanol. Why? Because I either run the machines often enough to turn the fuel over regularly, or, I follow the manufacturer's recommendations for long term storage.

I'd guess 99% of problems that people think are caused by ethanol are actually caused by poor maintenance practices.

Put another way, if your car gets 30mpg on pure gasoline, it will get 29.4mpg on E10.

Maybe you should experiment on a few tanks of gas? mine don't that I know for a fact even with todays cars, however the cost benefit of buying ethanol free vs pure gas is not there unless it's for small engines only to keep them somewhat reliable, and help prevent costly repairs. Yes, I think I maintain my stuff better than most and most is old and used up.

 

[jjeff]

Just last week I tested the gas I got at my local station, no corn products thankfully, only gas. Here's hoping it never shows up.
Stupid question, if all the stations in a particular area only sell regular E85, does that mean you've got to run hi test in everything that's not E85 approved?, that'll go over like a lead brick, more $$$$............Mike

They can't only sell E85 at this time I believe.

 

[sea2summit]

That's kind of misleading.

E100 (pure ethanol) has about 76,000 BTU per gallon.
Pure gasoline has about 114,000 BTU per gallon.
E10 (10% ethanol 90% gasoline) has about 111,800 BTU per gallon.

111,800 is 98.07% of 114,000.

Less than 2% difference in BTU.

Sounds like we should all switch to diesel…

 

[sea2summit]

I've been running E10 87 octane since the mid 80's in everything I own until a recent chainsaw purchase requires 89. Two stroke, four stroke, doesn't matter. I've never had any problems that can be traced to ethanol. Why? Because I either run the machines often enough to turn the fuel over regularly, or, I follow the manufacturer's recommendations for long term storage.

I'd guess 99% of problems that people think are caused by ethanol are actually caused by poor maintenance practices.

This is false because a lot of plastics and rubber components were never designed to be compatible, there was a transition period and items (mostly small engines, can’t think of a automobile engine) had to be upgraded to compatible components. Not much room for debate on that one

 

[sea2summit]

Just last week I tested the gas I got at my local station, no corn products thankfully, only gas. Here's hoping it never shows up.
Stupid question, if all the stations in a particular area only sell regular E85, does that mean you've got to run hi test in everything that's not E85 approved?, that'll go over like a lead brick, more $$$$............Mike

It said non-ethanol? If it didn’t, there is ethanol in there.

 

[jjeff]

The NMMA has been fighting E15 mandates forever or it seems like. They don't have much financial benefit by doing this unless they just want to protect consumers manufacturers.

 

[sea2summit]

The NMMA has been fighting E15 mandates forever or it seems like. They don't have much financial benefit by doing this unless they just want to protect consumers manufacturers.

I’m not sure what price fuel would have to reach to make it cost effective to use ethanol. I do know it uses a lot of land, a lot of fertilizer, a lot of machines, and a lot of FUEL to produce so with the cost of all those inputs rising…I’m not a huge fan.

 

[mrmikey]

It said non-ethanol? If it didn’t, there is ethanol in there.

Nope, none I actually tested it with a test vial and water.....M

 

[jjeff]

I've used these I recently tested them on a non running JD 212 I bought for $50. test showed it was bad gas with water and I assume phase separation. Drained fuel tank, cleaned carb and fuel pump it started right up and runs great. Point is the testing swabs worked like they should

B3C Fuel Solutions 7-903-12 $4.31 Gas Test Swabs, pkg. qty. 3 | Zoro.com

Order B3C Fuel Solutions Gas Test Swabs, pkg. qty. 3, 7-903-12 at Zoro.com. Great prices & free shipping on orders over $50 when you sign in or sign up for an account.

www.zoro.com

 

[MossRoad]

Just last week I tested the gas I got at my local station, no corn products thankfully, only gas. Here's hoping it never shows up.
Stupid question, if all the stations in a particular area only sell regular E85, does that mean you've got to run hi test in everything that's not E85 approved?, that'll go over like a lead brick, more $$$$............Mike

I've never seen a station that only sells E85.