Hay Farmers getting out of farming

[ddbackhoe]

Those seem like 2 separate issues. If you have a customer with large barn, it would be cheaper to take hay bales directly from field to him in your wagons, IF the hay has sweat and is cured for storage. Thats a big IF.
I did the second option. I let go of small square customers that wouldnt change to big bales. I showed them the $1000 outlay for a Hay Hut would pay off in XXX time by purchasing big bales. Most like the bales outside in a covered feeder and NO handling of hay. Makes both our lives easier.
Loading small squares and off loading them into barns is a difficult way to make a living. I did it and have shoulder bursa and rotator pain. Couldn’t find any help. Customers always wanted it on weekends so they could “supervise” ( aka get in the way) Screw that. Big bales has worked for me, but it was also a big step up in equipment and acreage

Yes 2 different issues. Neither of which involves us unloading and stacking at customers barn.
With a hay hut, who is replenishing the bale? Are you delivering or are they storing and moving? Dont want to be in the round bale a week (day, month, w/e) market either.

 

[ddbackhoe]

The complication, accidental coincidence, and whacky business model of my current hay operation could be it's own thread. Bottom line is right now every square foot of roof and field I use is bartered/traded for or leased.

 

[sree251]

Don't lecture people on poverty.

I am not doing that. I just don't like the idea of hard times faced by anyone. You look too good in your pictures to be living below average wage level

 

[Hay Dude]

Yes 2 different issues. Neither of which involves us unloading and stacking at customers barn.
With a hay hut, who is replenishing the bale? Are you delivering or are they storing and moving? Dont want to be in the round bale a week (day, month, w/e) market either.

I have worked that out to the best of my abilities. Typically, my round bales last about 15-18 days for 2 horses working a hay hut.
I replenish the bale (remember, you charge $ for that its value added). I typically charge $125/bale delivered locally.
I’d rather do that than sell the bale for $75 out of the barn on a Sunday when I should be enjoying family/friends.
This took a while, it did not happen overnight. You have to talk your customer into it and its NOT for everyone.

If I have a customer with 10 horses working 2 hay huts, I would probably offer to deliver 10 bales and place on pallets under tarp or in their barn. They usually have a chore tractor to put them in hay hut. If not, then charge them to show up and place bales in each in hay hut for them. Then they dont have to do it.
Gotta keep finding ways to increase your value to the customer.
Have a customer with a huge, house-size pile of brush. I was walking past it and mentioned the pile to her. She said she doesnt know what to do and will NOT burn it.
I proposed a price to her and she accepted. We start chipping on Monday. Good money in the job.
Look around on the farms you visit for work that needs to be done and offer to do it for them. Youd be surprised.

 

[sree251]

I know you think its crazy, but if you are set up to store a lot of squares, store them until supplies are at their low point in your area THEN sell them. Let all the little guys sell out at $4.50/bale FIRST. You can probably get 1-2 bucks more per bale. OR tell your customers theres a storage fee for pre-purchased hay? You gotta try ways of adding value to your services. Remember, you arent just baling hay, you are storing it and you are delivering it. Most, not all, horse people want the hay delivered and stacked in their barns for next to nothing extra for your bale price.
But I dont know your operation. Up north, the colder it gets, the higher the price (usually).

Sounds like you could be going into the hay broking business on the side yourself.

 

[sree251]

If I have a customer with 10 horses working 2 hay huts, I would probably offer to deliver 10 bales and place on pallets under tarp or in their barn. They usually have a chore tractor to put them in hay hut. If not, then charge them to show up and place bales in each in hay hut for them. Then they dont have to do it.

All that hay for horses. They don't look like race horses in your picture. What are the horses for?

 

[Hay Dude]

All that hay for horses. They don't look like race horses in your picture. What are the horses for?

Just to reiterate, only about 20% goes to horses or livestock.
None of the horses are “Race horses”. These are all easy-keeper, yard ornament horses
Race horses are fed gourmet hay/alfalfa indoors in stalls.

Dont cater to those people, nor do I want to In MY situation.
If I was limited to a 50 acre patch of hay, I would make it perfect alfalfa/hay mix and sell in small squares knowing it would be a part time break-even or slightly better operation.

Not the case here.

 

[ultrarunner]

From the outside looking in the cost of hay sure varies around the country.

When I posted $28 bale it is the current price here at the feed store cash and carry and yes the feed store is closed Sundays.

The difference between 4.50 and 28 is quite a spread...

 

[Hay Dude]

SF Bay Area most exotic expensive in country, right?

 

[Bearsixty7]

For a better way to handle large volume of small square bales "hands free", Check out Bales Hay Farm and Ranch https://www.youtube.com/c/BalesHayFarmandRanch

Granted more equipment expense but in one video he mentions getting $12-14 a 100lb bale so they must be profitable to keep going.

They use the New Holland bale movers but also the "Squeeze" machines to move and load those stacks. They also steam the hay sometimes.

I just found it all interesting and way better than the manual hay stacking and bucking I did back in the day.

 

[Snobdds]

What a hard way to make a living...But someone has to do it.

 

[ultrarunner]

SF Bay Area most exotic expensive in country, right?

I always thought it would be Hawaii or Manhattan...

But yes... abandoned and boarded up homes I walked passed as a kid going to school the city was selling for $1 in the 1970's provided the buyer occupy for 5 years and make 5k in improvements which could be a new roof and paint and fixing the broken windows...

35 years later in 2009-12 these Dollar homes could be purchased for 50k

45 years later in 2022 these same Dollar homes sell for 500k... (Of course they have been dolled up with a new finished but still 850-1000 square feet 2-3 bedrooms with one bath on 40x100 lots...

The last Oakland farm was a truck farm out near the airport mostly vegetables... it was quite a story when the last harvest was in and the land sold to make huge parking lots for all the rental car agencies...

The old nearby Hot Houses and Nurseries also gave way for housing and a Costco...

The Japanese family growing in the Hot House relocated about 75 miles inland and had a fantastic business with 4th generation now farming...all from a little two acre plot in the 1920's...

Sometimes the family farm lives on but in a new location...

 

[sree251]

What a hard way to make a living...But someone has to do it.

You can say that again.

 

[Hay Dude]

I always thought it would be Hawaii or Manhattan...

But yes... abandoned and boarded up homes I walked passed as a kid going to school the city was selling for $1 in the 1970's provided the buyer occupy for 5 years and make 5k in improvements which could be a new roof and paint and fixing the broken windows...

35 years later in 2009-12 these Dollar homes could be purchased for 50k

45 years later in 2022 these same Dollar homes sell for 500k... (Of course they have been dolled up with a new finished but still 850-1000 square feet 2-3 bedrooms with one bath on 40x100 lots...

The last Oakland farm was a truck farm out near the airport mostly vegetables... it was quite a story when the last harvest was in and the land sold to make huge parking lots for all the rental car agencies...

The old nearby Hot Houses and Nurseries also gave way for housing and a Costco...

The Japanese family growing in the Hot House relocated about 75 miles inland and had a fantastic business with 4th generation now farming...all from a little two acre plot in the 1920's...

Sometimes the family farm lives on but in a new location...

Wonder if those Japanese people were sent to interment camps in WW2?

 

[ultrarunner]

Horse people here build Squeeze barns just to automate handling...

The trailer loaded with hay arrives with squeeze lift in tow... in and out very quick... one operator operation.

 

[ultrarunner]

Wonder if those Japanese people were sent to interment camps in WW2?

YES!!!

The reason I know much of the history is my Japanese 102 year old neighbor...

The founder of the big growing operation was best man at his wedding and my neighbor built Growers Produce an operation in 3 states...

His 100th birthday bash was February 2000 just days before COVID struck...

The picture boards, the life farming, internment camp, restarting, etc... living history...

As for my neighbor... he enlisted in the US Army while being interned in the camp as did 4 of his closest friends...

As fortune would have it his immediate neighbor was a highly decorated WWII fighter ace shooting down 5 Japanese planes in a day and saving the carrier.

I was a fly on the wall just listening to stories at their kitchen table as a kid...

The Bay Area had a rich farming history and many innovations both growing and mechanical started here such as BEST tractor to become Caterpillar and Lewelling for varieties of crops...

At the turn of the century there were many small farmers making a living on just a couple of acres of peaches, walnuts, vegetables, etc.

Often exclusively Asian/Immigrant family plots...

The problem they had was product to market and the wholesalers had a take it or leave it pricing.

These small producers... mostly Japanese, Chinese, Filipino, etc. with some Italians and Croatians formed a Co-Op started with one truck so they could haul produce to market... eventually they owned a city block down by the docks to sell produce... and often sold to small Mom and Pop corner stores...

California, Arizona, Nevada was the territory at its peak... all bringing produce to the port city of Oakland...

Safeway and Longs also stared here as did international trade for California produce via Port of Oakland...

 

[sree251]

As fortune would have it his immediate neighbor was a highly decorated WWII fighter ace shooting down 5 Japanese planes in a day and saving the carrier.

No kidding. You have a name for this top gun guy? I need to fact check this.

 

[ultrarunner]

Commander John Theodore "Ted" Crosby... Fighter Ace in Day

Search: Aviator Ted Crosby

When he passed I posted on TBN the loss of a good friend...

At his retirement he was toasted as the best wartime squadron commander and the worst peacetime by one of his Tailhook friends

His last assignment was at Pearl Harbor and it drove him nuts flying a desk in his words...

Now back to regular programing...

By the way the Commander grew up an a family farm and hated it... graduated High School and set out to make his way in the big city...

I asked him if there was anything he liked about farming and he said the best day of his farm life is the day they got a tractor!!!

 

[OzarkChris]

Were you able to get out of your American soldier mindset

Looks like you are stereotyping again. I wasn't aware the American Military "Soldier" only had one mindset.

Please elaborate or do you only reply to things that incite or think will "push buttons"? I've had much better trying to push mine but that hasn't happened in well over 25 years. So if that's what you are looking for, maybe it's time to find someone else - i don't play that game.

As far as responses go, I made that statement due to the fact that in this thread you haven't really been able to back up anything, and you don't respond to tough questions e.g., #295.

 

[LHF2019]

Boy those are some revealing statements you made and I cant overemphasize how hard hitting your post is. The last paragraph in bold really hits home with a few of us in my area, especially with small bales and round bales. I hope your situation resolves itself in a positive way. Really sorry to hear about your dad. Lost mine in similar way. Thank you.

Fair is fair. We live in a capitalist society and competition is king. With that being said, the small squares business is almost impossible with smaller/hobby guys selling a few hundred to a few thousand bales a year out of a small operation barn for, like you said, $4.50/bale.
Everyone knows the typical 1-3 horse owning crowd is themselves, usually strapped for money and pays the lowest price they can for hay. Thats 100’s of thousands of buyers across the country all flocking to the guys who make hay at a loss because its “fun”. They are not really in it for the money. They are in it for the satisfaction it gives them. Nobody can argue with them or what theyre doing.
It would be like an excavating company competing with a guy who excavates part time with a mini ex for $50/hour for fun/relaxation And the excavating business has $100/hour in overhead and salaries for employees.
Thats why I changed my business model from 100% feed hay, to 20% feed hay and 80% mushroom hay. I cant compete with the guys doing it for a hobby at $4.50/bale. What I CAN do that they cant is TONNAGE. I also found ways to use the equipment for other work- mainly mowing and some limited snow plowing. We are loyal to our local customer base and I don't see us deviating from it. We offer 3 price points for our hay which is purchased at the field, prebuy and store, winter sales. For the last 2 years we have had nothing left for winter sales. This year we have closed our books to new customers because we do not over commit our hay sales. We are hoping by doing so some may make it into the barn for later sales. We raised prices last year and plan to do so again next year.
There have been times in the past where I think I should use my CDL and drive a tractor trailer to haul my hay and haul for others to make more money that way, but trucking isnt really a much better proposition than farming right now.
With input prices (fuel & fertilizer the worst) being as high as they are, I think we are at/past the breaking point. Good feed hay bales should be selling for $12-$15/bale to make a decent living off making hay. I know I’ll be savaged for saying that, but I dont care. Why does a hay farmer, performing a valuable service, have to endure such low pay for the risks. Until the hobby guys all realize their hay is worth north of $10/bale, feed hay producers will have to keep prices UNDER cost to produce. Thats a losing proposition.

You may want to start thinking about mushroom hay. I dont know if you have the demand for it up there OR if you can drive it 5 hours across PA to where demand for it is high. I DO see trucks in the yard from VA and NY, so there are hay farmers doing it now. Nothing near me and I just don't see the money due to the distance.

I dont know if you’d be open to it, but do you have CDL and can you afford a hay truck and 50’ trailer? Can you ramp up production to make ~1000 tons of mushroom hay, dropping the costs of constant herbicide spraying and fertilizing? This will cut your overhead and allow cash flow for the trucking costs. Costs more to make quality hay, but if you are competing at $4.50, you might as well forget about it.
Maybe you can make connections locally for fertilizing with any poultry litter or even composted leaves that are available? When you buy tractor trailer, buy an old dump trailer. Pick up any kind of compost material at their farm and spread on your fields? I wish the words poultry litter and local went together. I would like to have that for my fields

I still have a few custom contracts that we do but like last year every available dry day was spent on making our hay as it comes first. We do not deliver and have trimmed the customers we don't want to deal with.