Rim guard or not? Why a ballast box instead of boxblade?

[pmsmechanic]

Long ago, I realized that tractors are not great lawn mowers regardless of tire marking. I have a tractor to do utility work and field mowing and a riding mower for the turf grass.

I also have a dedicated lawn mower. If I can mow the lawn with two machines instead of one, I'll gladly do it just to get the job done quicker.

 

[LouNY]

Does tire fluid for weight have any influence on hydrostat (or gear type for that matter) response when starting, stopping and reversing? Can you "feel" the weight sloshing around, in other words?

On larger tires and tractors you most certainly can feel it.
starting or stopping even gear changes.
And it adversely affects the field and road ride quality.

 

[Vigo327]

There is no flywheel effect.. if you were to spin a tractor tire fast enough for it to generate enough centrifugal force to distribute itself to the outside of the tire it would evenly distribute itself and begin to spin with the tire. But since tractor tires turn so slowly the water just 'slips' inside the tire and basically is just a U shape of water inside the tire moving with the tractor but not really 'spinning'.

You do still feel it as 'normal' non-spinning weight, mostly during starting and stopping. My theory is that the smaller the tractor, the more noticeable it is. Not having owned a big tractor, i can't say for sure.

 

[dodge man]

I have felt my Rimguard bouncing around in my previous tractor, a Kubota BX when running at higher speeds but only when cold, as in near zero outside. I suppose it got thick.

One disadvantage of loaded tires, I read this on this forum several years ago. Like already said it doesn’t take weight off the rear axle. In theory it doesn’t counterbalance a heavy load in the bucket until it starts to pick up the rear tires. Like already said, it does greatly add stability.

The big advantage of three point weight is it’s ability to counterbalance a heavy load in the bucket.

In my mind if your tractor will pick up your counterbalance it’s not overloaded. Your owners manual might tell you exactly how much you should have. My JD 2025r manual is pretty specific. It says 700 pounds roughly on the back plus loaded tires, which is close to its lift capacity. Mine probably has 500 pounds back there.

My tractor will pick up its maximum load without lifting the rear tires. I suspect if I did use it like I show in the attached pic and hit the brakes while moving the back end would come up in a hurry. There is no ballast on the back in the pic.

Attachments

• 
  F25954AD-7B62-40EB-BA57-CACAAD73EC17.jpeg

  2.4 MB · Views: 1,688

 

[joe48]

There is no flywheel effect.. if you were to spin a tractor tire fast enough for it to generate enough centrifugal force to distribute itself to the outside of the tire it would evenly distribute itself and begin to spin with the tire. But since tractor tires turn so slowly the water just 'slips' inside the tire and basically is just a U shape of water inside the tire moving with the tractor but not really 'spinning'.

You do still feel it as 'normal' non-spinning weight, mostly during starting and stopping. My theory is that the smaller the tractor, the more noticeable it is. Not having owned a big tractor, i can't say for sure.

I have two Kioti's with the same size tires, one with RIMGARD other with windshield washer fluid.
Never felt any kind of movement or sloshing, or anything like that.
However in weather below about 20*F, the RIMGARD gets slushy and until you drive awhile it will cause a bumpy ride because its partially frozen and doesn't circulate inside the tire and acts like a big offset counter weight. (think crankshaft counter weight)

 

[RoyJackson]

I also have a dedicated lawn mower. If I can mow the lawn with two machines instead of one, I'll gladly do it just to get the job done quicker.

Same here...
When we first moved here, I moved our 2.5 acre lawn with a 35 HP Deere 4400 and 72" RFM. The lawn was reasonably flat, but still slow going.
I do the job faster and better with a zero-turn and 60" deck.

 

[ovrszd]

Does tire fluid for weight have any influence on hydrostat (or gear type for that matter) response when starting, stopping and reversing? Can you "feel" the weight sloshing around, in other words?

If I suddenly stop on flat ground and release the brakes the tractor will "slosh" forward/backward slightly. Otherwise no. Understand I'm talking about an 11K lb tractor with 1.5K lbs of fluid.

 

[ovrszd]

And it adversely affects the field and road ride quality.

This is almost always overlooked. My rears are 75% filled. This means I only 25% the volume of air to ride on. This means you have to run slightly higher pressures to get the same tread pattern on the ground. So ride is changed. Good point that hadn't been discussed.

 

[ovrszd]

There is no flywheel effect.. if you were to spin a tractor tire fast enough for it to generate enough centrifugal force to distribute itself to the outside of the tire it would evenly distribute itself and begin to spin with the tire. But since tractor tires turn so slowly the water just 'slips' inside the tire and basically is just a U shape of water inside the tire moving with the tractor but not really 'spinning'.

You do still feel it as 'normal' non-spinning weight, mostly during starting and stopping. My theory is that the smaller the tractor, the more noticeable it is. Not having owned a big tractor, i can't say for sure.

Back in the day my Dad had small Ford tractors, 8N, 641, 861. They all had fluid. They were all painfully slow on the road. So my Brother and I would use Georgia Overdrive (coast) on the downhills. One day he was pulling a square hay baler and a hay rack behind it. Kicked the 641 in neutral going down a long steep hill on a blacktop road. About halfway down the hill his speed got to the point that the fluid was rotating with the tires. The tractor began to lope and the rear tires were coming off the ground. He applied both rear brakes to slow down. He left 2ft long skid marks, spaced about 3ft apart at the bottom part of his ride. Baler and wagon started swaying. Threw the rack clear off the running gear. It's a wonder he wasn't killed. Dad was not impressed.

 

[finn1]

My tractor is a relatively light 40 hp with a factory cab and rimguard loaded tires. It’s pretty much traction limited when using the loader to move sand or gravel.

I only have a experience with three rear ballast devices. Rotary cutter works, but is impractical because of the size or form factor.

Landscape rake is too light.

Box blade works but would be better with added weight. I am still traction limited when using the loader or grading with the blade.

I wouldn’t consider a ballast box for most work since I need some sort of rear blade to spread material anyway.

I should probably look at some sort of bolt on supplemental weight to work in conjunction with the box blade.

 

[ovrszd]

I should probably look at some sort of bolt on supplemental weight to work in conjunction with the box blade.

I have saw suitcase weights used on a BB. Takes a little fab skill to make a weight bracket.

 

[CADplans]

I have saw suitcase weights used on a BB. Takes a little fab skill to make a weight bracket.

A simple bar is all that is needed to hang the weights,,

If I need a ballast for the 4105,, the landplane is heavy enough,,

(THAT is why the extra weights were on the grill guard,,)

ALSO, be sure to tie the weights to the place that they are being added,,
they fall off at the most inopportune time,,

 

[LouNY]

There is considerable hp lost in friction in high gear,
many hills would require a partial gear drop with a tractor with loaded tires compared to one with a few hundred pounds of iron on it.
These were both 656's many years ago.
Working in a plowed field the loaded tire one would do a better job most of the time,
hauling wagons iron was much quicker, quick being a relative term.
Even with the larger tractors road hauling is much better with iron then liquid filled.
Those old row crops were built much heavier then these new cut's are.

 

[CADplans]

One thing that I have never seen done, but, would be perfect,,
Change the drawbar hitch to a piece of 3X12 (or similar) steel bar, as long as there is room for.

Under the tractor, the weight would be out of the way.
And, with the weight down low, the center of gravity is lowered, making the tractor safer on a grade.

My BIL had a 55 gallon drum on the three point of his loader tractor.
It was filled with old steel and concrete.

If the three point was raised too much, the center of gravity was raised,,
the tractor actually felt MORE TIPPY with that ballast all the way up.

 

[npalen]

I wonder if liquid loaded tires have any effect in a tractor roll over incident? (The weight of the liquid suddenly moving to the other side of the tire) Could that cause a 180 degree roll verses just a 90 degree?

 

[RoyJackson]

If the three point was raised too much, the center of gravity was raised,,
the tractor actually felt MORE TIPPY with that ballast all the way up.

There is absolutely no need to raise any implement to full height unless clearance is needed.
My gear comes up just high enough...if, for some reason I need more height, I'll raise it, than lower as soon as practical
All this is common sense...not rocket science

 

[RoyJackson]

I wonder if liquid loaded tires have any effect in a tractor roll over incident? (The weight of the liquid suddenly moving to the other side of the tire) Could that cause a 180 degree roll verses just a 90 degree?

If that happened, it would be operator error...going too fast for conditions and not understanding (or ignoring) the limitations of the equipment...
In other words, a Darwin award winner...

 

[CADplans]

All this is common sense...not rocket science

All that is common sense, to someone who has operated equipment before.

A Novice will,,, "just raise the attachment",,, it happens all the time.

 

[npalen]

If that happened, it would be operator error...going too fast for conditions and not understanding (or ignoring) the limitations of the equipment...
In other words, a Darwin award winner...

Probably didn't make my question clear......When a tractor starts to roll, does the fluid weight suddenly being thrown to the "downhill" side of the tire affect the outcome?

 

[BeezFun]

Probably didn't make my question clear......When a tractor starts to roll, does the fluid weight suddenly being thrown to the "downhill" side of the tire affect the outcome?

I think you make a good point. Tires are normally filled ~80% so if the tractor starts to roll that fluid in the bottom 80% of the tire starts to slosh into the top 20% of the space that's normally just air. Especially the fluid in the tire on the "top" side of the tractor. Makes an already bad situation a bit worse.