Common rail vs mechanical injection

[RickB]

The grid heater is for emissions control as much as a starting aid. Same engine used in many other applications without a grid heater that have to operate in cold weather.

Grid heater begins operating below 60*F. Some speculate cold starting aid doesn’t become beneficial till below 0*F. Rarely see those temps. I have to be careful if I use the truck for short trips on the farm not allowing enough time charge the batteries back.
Always been a quick starter and reliable engine in 25 years of ownership. Only real problem being a weak fuel shutoff solenoid used in the Dodge application. Easily upgraded.

That's a very nice distortion of my comment which was a response to an interpretation of language in an operators manual.
If you had and used a block heater your grid heater cycle times would be less and you probably wouldn't have battery charge state concerns. Those cycle times are determined by coolant temps in almost all cases, not ambient temperature.
Broad based speculation about what temps starting aids are or are not effective are just that, speculation when not associated with a specific engine. Starting characteristics can and do vary, sometime by a lot.

 

[rScotty]

Nice post by 90Cummins on those diesels.

I'm one who believes that preheating is beneficial not just for emissions or starting but also for a reduction in wear. And I believe that pre-lubing - as with a compression release - is also beneficial.

But I'll admit those are just beliefs of mine. I can call it common sense, but can't point to a shred of evidence backing me up. It would be nice to be able to point to real test results.
rScotty

 

[Cow pi]

You might be able to get one of the AGCOs (Massey, Challenger, AGCOs) with a CVT. I have a 7495 and love it.

I have been researching the Agco tractors with the CVT. Lots of good said about them.
I initially wanted nothing to do with a CVT trans because I figured they would be too complex and expensive to work on. Sounds like they are pricey, but simply get swapped out instead of rebuilt. And they hold up a long time it sounds. 10,000 hours or so on the Agco IVT.

 

[Hay Dude]

I have been researching the Agco tractors with the CVT. Lots of good said about them.
I initially wanted nothing to do with a CVT trans because I figured they would be too complex and expensive to work on. Sounds like they are pricey, but simply get swapped out instead of rebuilt. And they hold up a long time it sounds. 10,000 hours or so on the Agco IVT.

One tech was telling me it’s actually competitive prices between fully rebuilding a powershift and replacing a CVT.
They are a dream to operate

 

[Cow pi]

One tech was telling me it’s actually competitive prices between fully rebuilding a powershift and replacing a CVT.
They are a dream to operate

My, that's getting mighty tempting. I'll have to demo one.

 

[Boss 302]

Technology is a wonderful thing, hard to keep up with all of the new options.

 

[Hay Dude]

Technology is a wonderful thing, hard to keep up with all of the new options.

It’s is, but one thing I never understood was how these manufacturers come out with new technologies and won’t back it up with warranties to protect us if it fails. We end up footing the bill for failures, like DPFs or other failed systems costing us thousands more.
If DPFs and DEF is mandated, then there should be some kind of compensatory system to help us repair them when they fail so they can pass their mandated inspections.
Probably why when they fail, many bypass them.

 

[Boss 302]

I'm all for cleaning up the environment and looking out for our children of the future, I just would like to see some things be exempt such as tractors and technology used for farming purposes.

 

[CausticUrbanCoast]

I'm all for cleaning up the environment and looking out for our children of the future, I just would like to see some things be exempt such as tractors and technology used for farming purposes.

Why do you think agriculture is last on the list and export only farmers are exempt from restrictions?

 

[RickB]

What restrictions are "export only" farmers exempt from and exactly what are "export only" farmers?

 

[CausticUrbanCoast]

What restrictions are "export only" farmers exempt from and exactly what are "export only" farmers?

Well the most famous and well known are the alfalfa export farmers in California that are exempt from all water restrictions and emissions. Let the state burn so they can water crops!

 

[RickB]

Well the most famous and well known are the alfalfa export farmers in California that are exempt from all water restrictions and emissions. Let the state burn so they can water crops!

Not buying any claims about farmers being exempt from emissions requirements, especially in California. It ain't happening and I challenge you to back up your claim. Emissions requirements follow equipment, not end users.
Or I could refer you back to post #57.
Now water rights are something I know next to nothing about.

 

[LouNY]

And were are they "exporting" too.
Arizona were all their cows went???
And I'd like to know what water restrictions they are exempt from, what irrigation????
Many of those have their own purchased and improved water rights.

 

[CausticUrbanCoast]

And were are they "exporting" too.
Arizona were all their cows went???
And I'd like to know what water restrictions they are exempt from, what irrigation????
Many of those have their own purchased and improved water rights.

The alfalfa goes to china. It makes headlines every year internationally.

 

[CausticUrbanCoast]

Not buying any claims about farmers being exempt from emissions requirements, especially in California. It ain't happening and I challenge you to back up your claim. Emissions requirements follow equipment, not end users.
Or I could refer you back to post #57.
Now water rights are something I know next to nothing about.

They are exempt because they are Federal farmers, they are not farmers for the state of California.

 

[finn1]

The grid heater in the Cummins have nothing to do with the emissions qualification if, in fact, the heater controller is programmed to come on only below 60 degreased.

The emissions test qualification cycle doesn’t run below room temperature.

The heater is strictly for sociability reasons. Cummins wants the engines to start and clean up quickly to get rid of the old stinky Diesel reputation compression ignition engines deservedly developed from pre emissions days, when they were primarily industrial power plants.

Pretty much all modern diesels have glow plugs or grid heaters. Cummins was actually the last manufacturer to come to the party. Their last P pump engines in the 90s were notoriously poor cold performers, and would envelop the truck with white smoke after startup at low temperatures. It’s not 1964 anymore.

The common rail engines have incredible flexibility to develop cold start strategies and calibration compare to the primitive mechanical fuel systems of years past.

Pilot injection allows very low injection rates, which minimizes heat loss in the combustion chamberas the fuel vaporizes, and the unlimited timing flexibility can optimize start of combustion for low temperature ignition delays to minimize white smoke formation.

 

[IndyJay]

The alfalfa goes to china. It makes headlines every year internationally.

That explains that...

 

[RickB]

They are exempt because they are Federal farmers, they are not farmers for the state of California.

WTF is a Federal Farmer?
Emissions regulations are federal regulations administered by the EPA. States are allowed to pass more stringent regulations but cannot bypass, exempt or otherwise circumvent Federal regulations.
Still no link, verification or documentation of your absurd emissions claim.

 

[IndyJay]

WTF is a Federal Farmer?

I'm going to venture a guess that it is these extremely wealthy west coast celebrities that use farming as a tax dodge. "Crony Capitalism".
I'm sure someone will jump in and prove me wrong. Maybe I only worded it wrong.