What are my options to keep a small section of exposed water line from freezing?

[JOE G]

Hi, My Shop is fed from my home which is about a 100 FT Run of Black Plastic pipe I believe it's around 1 Inch ID, My issue is when I ran it I was not able to get it under ground easily from where it comes out of my home to where it goes under ground is 5 to 6 Feet, This part of the pipe is under my porch, Is there anything I can do to keep this from freezing? What I have been doing is shutting the water off and blowing the line out for the winter but I would like to have water out there year round., The ground is to rocky and to try and get it under ground would be very difficult. Thanks

P.S How forgiving is this pipe? I have had it freeze a couple times on me when i don't get it off in time.

 

[ponytug]

1) Wrap it in a pipe heater (fire risk!)
2) Insulate the heck out of it
3) Insulate the porch area
4) Do what you have been doing

I would do 2, and 3. Insulating the porch areas allows heat to flow out of the ground and house to help keep the area above freezing. Since you don't use much water, the pipe will be more susceptible to freezing than a pipe that is in daily use.

That pipe will tolerate an occasional freeze, but nothing good comes of it. The fittings are less tolerant.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Doofy]

Heat Tape and insulate. Heat Tapes need to be on a GFCI circuit.

When blowing out water lines, you never get all the water out so you have been lucky so far.

 

[ljjhouser]

Agree with Doofy. Go to plumbing supply and get a good (cut to length) Heat Tape. Run and tape and insulate according to instructions. Most good heat tapes won't heat until ambient temp is near 32.

 

[ljjhouser]

Just noticed you are pretty far north - NY. Is the line in other places deep enough? When my father-in-law was alive, he owned a car wash. He had a small relay device that opened below 32 that would permit a slow drip on each bay. I don't know if I like that idea, but that is what he did. I think he got them from car wash equipment supplier.

 

[Jstpssng]

A 12" wide piece of 2" styrofoam will go a long way to keep it from freezing.

 

[Doofy]

They also make excellent heat tapes that can be run inside the water line providing that both ends are accessible and have no close 90s. These can be ordered with thermostats and or timers and leak-proof fittings.

 

[CalG]

Under a porch? You didn't say how much room you had under there to work, nor how "close to the ground" the water pipe is.

But, 2 inches of blue board foam insulation laid on the ground keeps the ground from freezing here in Vermont. I bet it works in New York as well. The "ground" runs about 55 degrees if you don't let the heat out.
More insulation is always better of course. but laying two sheets 4 X 8 over that water pipe, and then sealing it all over with poly sheeting held tight with soil , or better dry straw. would protect that line. To test it out, just lay a coupe of sheets of insulation out on the ground in some protected place , cover as described and check on it on Feb 28th!

Black plastic pipe is pretty resilient to freezing.

I've got a 80 foot run from the house to the yard hydrant that sits outside my shop. The house end goes into ground in an unheated concrete block "oil shed" and is insulated as described above. Never an issue.

BUT

In late winter, when the frost goes full depth in the soil, the yard hydrant is up against the foundation of the shop. That sub level is unheated and not even closed in (think bank barn)
The line does freeze there, and no water will run. That lasts just about a month or two stating mid Feb.

It's been that way since the late 90s, so I'm thinking I'll keep going with it.

 

[Doofy]

Pipe Heat Tracing | Trace Heating | Heat-Line

Stop frozen water, protect pipes & more with safe/energy efficient pipe heat tracing. Heat-Line trace heating provides electric heat tracing for pipes

heatline.com

This is an excellent resource!

 

[JOE G]

The Line is deep enough every where but the run under porch, I have it attached to the Deck Joist so it is off the ground, It is about 3 ft high in that area which is why i didn't put it in the ground it. I let my compressor run for a while blowing the line out, I am pretty sure I get most of it out, and what ever I don't I believe would settle under the ground.

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

I use IN PIPE heat trace which is in direct contact with the water inside the pipe.
Super easy to install a real DIY thing. (and realtively cheap)
Here we can order in any custom length we want.
And insulate outside pipe with pipe insulation.

 

[Egon]

Constant circulation.

 

[CobyRupert]

Electric heat tape on a gfci breaker is well protected. Simplest. Insulation thickness is inversely proportionate to tape wattage. The “self regulating variable wattage” tapes solves a lot of the sizing problems.
Steam trace is more complicated.
Leaving a trickle manually is wasteful. Automatic trickle on a thermostat risks a lot if it fails.
Hooking up an air connection behind some isolation valves to blow line can range from simple, to putting it on switches and solenoids to control remotely.

If it is going to freeze, don’t isolate the frozen section between two closed valves. Expanding ice has to go somewhere and has a lot of force.

 

[LouNY]

The inline heating cables with external insulation would be the best way to go.
Low wattage heat trace cable wrapped around the poly pipe and taped down with foil tape and then insulated will work also.

 

[kenmac]

If you worried about having to run elect to install some sort of heat. You can spray foam the pipe as thick as you need it

 

[jyoutz]

Hi, My Shop is fed from my home which is about a 100 FT Run of Black Plastic pipe I believe it's around 1 Inch ID, My issue is when I ran it I was not able to get it under ground easily from where it comes out of my home to where it goes under ground is 5 to 6 Feet, This part of the pipe is under my porch, Is there anything I can do to keep this from freezing? What I have been doing is shutting the water off and blowing the line out for the winter but I would like to have water out there year round., The ground is to rocky and to try and get it under ground would be very difficult. Thanks

P.S How forgiving is this pipe? I have had it freeze a couple times on me when i don't get it off in time.

Heat tape on pipe. Cover with foam insulation.

 

[mrmikey]

I'd vote for heat tape. I have a small run, 10' or so, under my deck hanging off the joists to my outside tap. In the fall and spring when the temp drops below freezing at night it would always freeze solid and one year it busted the pex. I ended up running the pex inside a piece of 1-1/2' ABS pipe and running a heat tape around that and have never had a problem, even when I've forgotten to turn off the water and drain the line for the dead of winter...........Mike

 

[oosik]

There is a fiberglass product used in septic drain fields. It's an arch and about five feet long. Called an infiltrator or septic leach chamber. Arc fiberglass insulation over the exposed pipe. Get at least two layers over the pipe and the full length. Put the leach chamber over the insulation. Enclose and insulate the area under the porch.

The natural heat from the ground will keep the water line from freezing.

Heat tape is another option. Problem - for whatever reason - I've never seen this method last too long. Something seems to always cause the heat tape to go on the fritz.

 

[Jstpssng]

Heat tape is another option. Problem - for whatever reason - I've never seen this method last too long. Something seems to always cause the heat tape to go on the fritz.

The first place that I ever rented was an old trailer with that problem... rats kept chewing it where the line came up through the floor.

 

[Diggin It]

My issue is when I ran it I was not able to get it under ground easily from where it comes out of my home to where it goes under ground is 5 to 6 Feet, This part of the pipe is under my porch,

Under a porch? You didn't say how much room you had under there to work, nor how "close to the ground" the water pipe is.

But, 2 inches of blue board foam insulation laid on the ground keeps the ground from freezing here in Vermont. I bet it works in New York as well. The "ground" runs about 55 degrees if you don't let the heat out.

The Line is deep enough every where but the run under porch, I have it attached to the Deck Joist so it is off the ground, It is about 3 ft high in that area ...

Tell us more about this porch. Is it a concrete porch or a wood/composite deck? Are the sides enclosed? Can they be? If so, that whole area could be insulated.

Why is the pipe three feet off the ground instead of laying on the ground? Can it be moved down to the ground?

If so, you could use the foam board mentioned above or maybe even fill that area with dirt to bury the pipe. Unless that area gets wet and would become a drainage issue.