Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[Alan W.]

Saw where Berea KY has Tesla police cars.
Luckily not from my rearview mirror.
They were touting reduced operating cost.
But the funny was that they brag on no exhaust. Unfortunately they do have an exhaust its just not at the rear of the car.

About 50% of KUs power comes from coal about half from natural gas. They have a small hydro base.

Im all for EVs and will probably get one. But I will use solar and wind to do the bulk of my charging. Being retired I dont need to go every day.

 

[PuffyC]

World spends $423 billion a year to subsidize fossil fuels, UN research says

UNDP Administrator Achim Steiner said he was "very worried" that we are in a "historical moment in time."

www.cnbc.com

When $300 billion of this $423 billion subsidizing is moved from fossil fuels to renewables more will want EVs I expect.

This is the key from that article:

”Asked how this can be turned around, Steiner told CNBC: “Well, many economists essentially agree that if you were to introduce a carbon price that reflects the true cost of using that fossil fuel in our economies today, you would actually very quickly create a market whereby producers but also consumers of fossil fuels, would actually move out of this sector.”

Been saying it for years - you make consumers pay the real price for gas, as in the total of what it costs to obtain that barrel of oil all the way thru to the environment costs, and this is a problem that solves itself. We’ve intentionally undermined the free market, making people think gasoline is affordable and effective when it very much isn’t, then get outraged when we’re finally forced to subsidize better alternatives. It’s all according to plan though, it’s just a plan put together by oil companies wanting to get rich and politicians wanting to avoid hard choices so they can get re-elected. But as we’re seeing, there’s no free lunch and at some point the ponzi scheme implodes on itself.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

This is the key from that article:

”Asked how this can be turned around, Steiner told CNBC: “Well, many economists essentially agree that if you were to introduce a carbon price that reflects the true cost of using that fossil fuel in our economies today, you would actually very quickly create a market whereby producers but also consumers of fossil fuels, would actually move out of this sector.”

Been saying it for years - you make consumers pay the real price for gas, as in the total of what it costs to obtain that barrel of oil all the way thru to the environment costs, and this is a problem that solves itself. We’ve intentionally undermined the free market, making people think gasoline is affordable and effective when it very much isn’t, then get outraged when we’re finally forced to subsidize better alternatives. It’s all according to plan though, it’s just a plan put together by oil companies wanting to get rich and politicians wanting to avoid hard choices so they can get re-elected. But as we’re seeing, there’s no free lunch and at some point the ponzi scheme implodes on itself.

Thanks this helps me better understand why some people hate on EVs. People tend to get uptight when they know they're going to lose some of their freebies.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

I'm not arguing that at all; I just don't believe in buying into the latest fad. Once the technology is more defined, I can get some of my questions answered, and somebody starts making an affordable, dependable EV I will probably buy one. There are just too many variables including safety. I don't live near a city, and keep the tanks of my pickups over 1/2 full most of the time, including when traveling. On more than one occasion I've sat in snow and ice storms for an hour or more while an accident scene was cleared. What will it do to battery range when you keep running the heater, wipers, and lights? How much is that range reduced when you are pushing through 6 inches of snow?
It's not uncommon for me to drive 200 miles to my mother's house in the AM, visit for a few hours and do what I can to help out; then come home. Will a battery recharge in that time?

Yeah, early adopters have to put up with a lot of problems. Either they have special needs or are members of some geek squad. I may be in the market for an EV - in 10 years.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

When they're idiot proof idiots will buy them.
Here's a true life example, I wonder how a self driving car would handle it. Years ago coming home, 55 mph posted speed two lane road, no passing zone. As I approached a side road with of course a stop sign the driver ran stop sign RIGHT as I got to it. That vehicle was a school bus full of kids. I'm doing the speed limit.
Should I swerve in other lane? Remember...no passing zone. Hit the brakes? ...for what reason (that's what your computer driver would do). What a quandary yet we're alive to tell.
I downshifted and floored it, passing front of bus by a couple feet, speeding to avoid oncoming car head-on then getting back in our lane.
All was well.
Is that what a self driver would do?
One of many examples.

Self-drivers don't have to be perfect, they just have to be better than a human. That is not a high bar. A self-driving school bus would never have run a stop sign.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

The evidence is in all the news stories where a Tesla crashes and burns and since it's all electric good samaritans can't even get the doors open. There was another just last week.

"Herman told KHOU-TV that officials “feel very confident just with the positioning of the bodies after the impact that there was no one driving that vehicle.” Herman described a person found in the front passenger seat and another in the rear passenger seat after the crash. The New York Times also reported that Herman said officials believed “no one was driving the vehicle at the time of the crash.”

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that while computers have their place, operating 2 ton masses of steel with occupants on board ain't one of them.

As I understand the system, that is not possible. It will not start or drive without a driver.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

As I understand the system, that is not possible. It will not start or drive without a driver.

Yes . Today Tesla is at level two like most other.. True self-driving would be a level five so there's three and four to conquer first.

 

[MossRoad]

There's an interesting article in the October 2021 National Geographic about EV transportation.

That's where I saw the item about how much electricity and battery weight it takes to move an airplane.

It would take 4.4 million laptop batteries to get a 747 off the ground, but they'd weigh 8X the weight of the airplane.

Pound for pound, liquid fuel is and alway will be the winner for power to weight ratio. It's not even close.

And airline travel is not going away. So the focus has shifted to more efficient aircraft, engines and cleaner fuel from recyclable sources. Right now, that type of fuel is 6-8 times more expensive. Until it is mandated, there's no money in scaling up to produce it.

All this can be applied to automobiles. Costs vs benefits. "Average" people can't currently afford the costs of EVs.

 

[Fixastuff]

Pound for pound, liquid fuel is and alway will be the winner for power to weight ratio.

I wish I was this smart and confident.

 

[MossRoad]

I wish I was this smart and confident.

When compared to battery power, that's just the laws of physics.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

There's an interesting article in the October 2021 National Geographic about EV transportation.

That's where I saw the item about how much electricity and battery weight it takes to move an airplane.

It would take 4.4 million laptop batteries to get a 747 off the ground, but they'd weigh 8X the weight of the airplane.

Pound for pound, liquid fuel is and alway will be the winner for power to weight ratio. It's not even close.

And airline travel is not going away. So the focus has shifted to more efficient aircraft, engines and cleaner fuel from recyclable sources. Right now, that type of fuel is 6-8 times more expensive. Until it is mandated, there's no money in scaling up to produce it.

All this can be applied to automobiles. Costs vs benefits. "Average" people can't currently afford the costs of EVs.

Electric planes the battery weight is the same on takeoff as it does landing. Jet fuel gets lighter and lighter and lighter the further you go so the landing is less impactful.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Sandy on Tesla's Hertz deal.

 

[3930dave]

Thanks this helps me better understand why some people hate on EVs. People tend to get uptight when they know they're going to lose some of their freebies.

That may be a factor in some cases/sectors.

Myself, I'm mostly Agnostic when it comes to technology..... if it does what I want, when I want, at a cost and reliability level that suits me, then I'll consider it.

IMO, a lot of the push-back at the moment is along the lines of Hate The Game, not The Player though....

..... meaning..... if the perception is:

Thou Shalt Do THIS, not THAT.....

It doesn't matter so much (IMO) what THIS is, rather that the delivery of the edict rubs people the wrong way.....

Current (pun intended) EVs would suit me for local running around, but not my bank account.

Rgds, D.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

That may be a factor in some cases/sectors.

Myself, I'm mostly Agnostic when it comes to technology..... if it does what I want, when I want, at a cost and reliability level that suits me, then I'll consider it.

IMO, a lot of the push-back at the moment is along the lines of Hate The Game, not The Player though....

..... meaning..... if the perception is:

Thou Shalt Do THIS, not THAT.....

It doesn't matter so much (IMO) what THIS is, rather that the delivery of the edict rubs people the wrong way.....

Current (pun intended) EVs would suit me for local running around, but not my bank account.

Rgds, D.

Good points. I think we're just living in a Time of anti-everything.

If major institutions start banding any investments in the fossil fuel industry we could possibly see gasoline going to 8 to $10 a gallon over the next 10 years which would be a game changer.

One positive should be a very nice ICE car a few years old could perhaps be bought for $0.30 on a dollar of retail.

 

[3930dave]

Doing it now will simply cater to the elite while destroying the economy.

Well, if I were to place a bet based on the last 40 years.....

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

We cannot trust people to drive yet we trust them to build systems that can "protect us." Gotta love human hubris...

Many people are bored by/pay no attention to History.... Why Bother ?

I can't imagine ground transport getting more scrutiny..... just look at the lethal products that Boeing got "Approved" by the FAA.....

Rgds, D.

 

[Fuddy1952]

Self-drivers don't have to be perfect, they just have to be better than a human. That is not a high bar. A self-driving school bus would never have run a stop sign.

Well, I beg to differ.
Everyone here has had the experience of a computer crash or experienced an electronic failure. Imagine relying on THAT driving a bus, truck or car. And yes, I know people drive drunk, have heart attacks or strokes while driving...still hard to beat the creative brain though. As I say, I committed two traffic violations yet here to tell the story, one of several instances.

 

[Fixastuff]

Well, I beg to differ.
Everyone here has had the experience of a computer crash or experienced an electronic failure. Imagine relying on THAT driving a bus, truck or car. And yes, I know people drive drunk, have heart attacks or strokes while driving...still hard to beat the creative brain though. As I say, I committed two traffic violations yet here to tell the story, one of several instances.

The way to go from 2 lanes to one and not have to slow down is to double the speed as you downsize lanes. A computer knows this

 

[MossRoad]

Electric planes the battery weight is the same on takeoff as it does landing. Jet fuel gets lighter and lighter and lighter the further you go so the landing is less impactful.

Yes, but you still can't get a battery powered 747 off the ground.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Yes, but you still can't get a battery powered 747 off the ground.

That should be self-evident.