Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[3930dave]

Where are you for kWh/mile being the same as ounce/mile? Here, it' s about 1/15th. My 2013 Hyundai Tucson used 10L per 100 KM so 0.1L per KM. At $1.47 per L, that's $0.147 per KM. My Telsa Model 3 SR+ with its 50 kWh battery drains 30% per 100 KM so 15 kWh per 100 KM, or 150Wh per KM. At $0.0615 per kWh, that's $0.0092 per KM. That's 16 times less than my Tucson.

How do you calculate your kwh $ rate ?

I know hydro is more subsidized in QC than other parts of Canada, but still, that seems low.

The last time I took my bill, backed out the HST (Canadian VAT + provincial tax) THEN divided by the actual kwh used, it was a little under 25 cents/kwh here. The stated "kwh" rate may not look too bad, but once you account (pun intended) for what I call all the Fairy Tale Fees that have been layered into electric bills in the last 20 years, the actual rate you are paying is way higher.

What is really scary is that ^ scam was cooked up here long before demonizing and outlawing ICE vehicles became fashionable. Two guesses where this trend-line goes, once carbon fuel taxes start to tail-off....

Rgds, D.

 

[SylvainG]

Us it's

$0.06150 per kWh for the first 40 kWh of the day (actually, it's not checked daily but over a billing period, which is around 60 days so 2,400 kWh)
$0.09502 per kWh for what's above that 2,400 kWh
$0.41168 per day of billing (flat rate, so $24.70 wether you consume electricity or not)

That's it. No other costs.

This is my last bill for 2,125 kWh for 62 days.

 

[Fuddy1952]

I'll make a prediction, (as gas station owners right now are pondering what are we going to do in a few years?).
Electric vehicles will be made desirable, people embracing them with open arms as 2035 approaches. Then suddenly people will realize all these gasoline/diesel things they have need to be junked. Things that worked well: cars including antiques, collectibles, muscle cars, lawn mowers, chain saws, tractors, trucks, motorcycles, boats...all of these petroleum burning nasty polluting things need to go. We'll see gas/diesel harder to find and super expensive.
That will be the new world if we're around then to see it.
It's already signed into law in California for mowers, saws, etc. We'll see as it sweeps across the nation.
People will love electric and despise petroleum for hundreds of reasons including saving the planet.

 

[lman]

I'll make a prediction, (as gas station owners right now are pondering what are we going to do in a few years?).
Electric vehicles will be made desirable, people embracing them with open arms as 2035 approaches. Then suddenly people will realize all these gasoline/diesel things they have need to be junked. Things that worked well: cars including antiques, collectibles, muscle cars, lawn mowers, chain saws, tractors, trucks, boats...all of these petroleum burning nasty polluting things need to go. We'll see gas/diesel harder to find and super expensive.
That will be the new world if we're around then to see it.
It's already signed into law in California for mowers, saws, etc. We'll see as it sweeps across the nation.
People will love electric and despise petroleum for hundreds of reasons including saving the planet.

And then you woke up.

 

[Whidbey]

There are always shorts covering during a run-up, and it could have contributed some to recent events. But I think the Hertz deal was a surprise. And I also think there is something else going on - but that is just a hunch of mine.

There was a post telling everyone that it was a good opportunity to short Tesla. I replied that many investors had lost their shirts trying to do exactly that. He posted again to tell everyone to not listen to me. My question is where is Tesla today compared to 3 or 6 months ago?

 

[Jstpssng]

I'll make a prediction, (as gas station owners right now are pondering what are we going to do in a few years?).
Electric vehicles will be made desirable, people embracing them with open arms as 2035 approaches. Then suddenly people will realize all these gasoline/diesel things they have need to be junked. Things that worked well: cars including antiques, collectibles, muscle cars, lawn mowers, chain saws, tractors, trucks, boats...all of these petroleum burning nasty polluting things need to go. We'll see gas/diesel harder to find and super expensive.
That will be the new world if we're around then to see it.
It's already signed into law in California for mowers, saws, etc. We'll see as it sweeps across the nation.
People will love electric and despise petroleum for hundreds of reasons including saving the planet.

I also believe that at some point in time people will realize that electric has it's own problems and isn't the panacea we thought it was.
Especially if we don't stop depending on China to provide us with the dirty metals which we won't produce in this country for environmental reasons.

 

[Egon]

Look forward to the future fuelling station. A five minute drive thru battery exchange! A very plausible future.

 

[Oaktree]

I also believe that at some point in time people will realize that electric has it's own problems and isn't the panacea we thought it was.
Especially if we don't stop depending on China to provide us with the dirty metals which we won't produce in this country for environmental reasons.

I agree 100%. Getting rid of gas/diesel powered vehicles, power tools, etc. isn't going to do squat to "save the planet", maybe screw it up differently but that's it. All that electricity has to be generated somehow, and fossil fuels are still a major component of that. Solar isn't going to be the solution...solar farms are huge, ugly and only practical in some parts of the country. Environmentalists and NIMBYs get their shorts in a major bunch on wind or hydro projects...look at the ruckus over the new powerline they want to build between Quebec and Mass. We went thru the same thing a few years ago in N.H. (disclaimer: I was opposed to the northern pass powerline here myself).
How much hydro generating capacity has been lost in the SW due to the extended drought?

Despite all the hoopla about how "recyclable" the new batteries are, you're right they're still a very dirty product, and are very dangerous regarding fire. Maybe those problems will be solved somewhat, maybe not.

There was a post telling everyone that it was a good opportunity to short Tesla. I replied that many investors had lost their shirts trying to do exactly that. He posted again to tell everyone to not listen to me. My question is where is Tesla today compared to 3 or 6 months ago?

Inexplicably, up over 100% for the year. Sooner or later this stock is going to crash big time...there's no way this company is worth anywhere near its current valuation.
I read a news story this morning that Musk is being a total crybaby over a proposed increased tax rate on billionaires. What a hypocrite...doesn't seem to have a problem with gov't subsidies and/or tax breaks, but when it comes to ponying up on tax day it's a different story.

 

[Fuddy1952]

And then you woke up.

Uh...sure...
It was a nightmare.

 

[Doughknob]

.... What a hypocrite...doesn't seem to have a problem with gov't subsidies and/or tax breaks, but when it comes to ponying up on tax day it's a different story.

Everyone is complaining about something huh?

 

[Doughknob]

..... Teslas have killed people at a disproportionate rate, ....

Where is this evidence? I constantly see evidence of the driver not paying attention or sleeping or being drunk, etc. in most of these tesla cases. Do guns kill people or do people kill people? Looks like a similar thing to me.

I do agree, however, that 'auto self driving' is not a good thing currently. But only because the automakers cannot idiot-proof it yet.

 

[Fuddy1952]

When they're idiot proof idiots will buy them.
Here's a true life example, I wonder how a self driving car would handle it. Years ago coming home, 55 mph posted speed two lane road, no passing zone. As I approached a side road with of course a stop sign the driver ran stop sign RIGHT as I got to it. That vehicle was a school bus full of kids. I'm doing the speed limit.
Should I swerve in other lane? Remember...no passing zone. Hit the brakes? ...for what reason (that's what your computer driver would do). What a quandary yet we're alive to tell.
I downshifted and floored it, passing front of bus by a couple feet, speeding to avoid oncoming car head-on then getting back in our lane.
All was well.
Is that what a self driver would do?
One of many examples.

 

[Fuddy1952]

Look forward to the future fuelling station. A five minute drive thru battery exchange! A very plausible future.

Sure. That station will have all battery packs for all EVs fully charged, ready to go no waiting. Eight attendants at the ready like NASCAR zip-zip-zip in & out 5 minutes. You'll get a new or good-tested-charged pack (not someone's junk batteries)...all that for $30 and you're on your way for another 500 miles.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I don't get why people ignore the science and claim EVs will save the planet.

Elon Musk is on record stating that there's NO scientific data that proves the current global warming cycle is Man Made. His point is that the fossil fuel sources are not infinite yet they are essential for life as we will know it well into the future. We are going to need paved roads. We are going to need fertilizer and chemicals for farming. We're going to need medicine directly or indirectly dependent on fossil fuel production.

Hertz has analysised the EV data showing EV based transportation is less expensive than fossil fuel based transportation.

Why should we limit the future kids success by consuming all of the lower cost fossil fuels in the next 200 years?

Perhaps no one here knows anyone with COPD but I do.

EVs will get away from Lithium Ion batteries totally. Todays versions are becoming rare earth free. Todays EVs are at the Ford Model T level of evolution. Yes that means a Ford Model T and Tesla Model 3 share the same spot in history so to speak.

The only reason EVs will replace ICE based transportation is because people are financially frugal and want to cut their transportation cost.

Rebates for EVs, wind and solar ONLY exist because governments hope to lower their healthcare costs.

EVs have reached excape velocity based on common sense thanks in part to the blood, sweat and tears of people wanting lower the cost of transportation. Sam Walton did something similar in his era.

 

[Whidbey]

Not even close! Pulling the trigger of a firearm requires a deliberate act...letting the "auto pilot" of the Tesla drive while not paying attention is pure neglect on the "driver's" part. Frankly, IMHO, Tesla should remove the self driving software completely as it leads to inattention on the part of the driver.
However, make no mistake...the driver has full responsibility and if involved in an accident, must bear that full responsibility

The problem is that Tesla's Full Self Driving is not fully realized. Drivers who attempt to let the vehicle drive autonomously are playing Russian Roulette

 

[Doughknob]

Not even close! Pulling the trigger of a firearm requires a deliberate act...letting the "auto pilot" of the Tesla drive while not paying attention is pure neglect on the "driver's" part. Frankly, IMHO, Tesla should remove the self driving software completely as it leads to inattention on the part of the driver.
However, make no mistake...the driver has full responsibility and if involved in an accident, must bear that full responsibility

Not sure I understand your response. 'What' is not even close? Both examples are "pure neglect" by a human. Both are "deliberate acts" by a human. And then you say the driver has full responsibility - just like a gun user does. So..... not sure what you are saying here......