Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[3930dave]

Where are you for kWh/mile being the same as ounce/mile? Here, it' s about 1/15th. My 2013 Hyundai Tucson used 10L per 100 KM so 0.1L per KM. At $1.47 per L, that's $0.147 per KM. My Telsa Model 3 SR+ with its 50 kWh battery drains 30% per 100 KM so 15 kWh per 100 KM, or 150Wh per KM. At $0.0615 per kWh, that's $0.0092 per KM. That's 16 times less than my Tucson.

How do you calculate your kwh $ rate ?

I know hydro is more subsidized in QC than other parts of Canada, but still, that seems low.

The last time I took my bill, backed out the HST (Canadian VAT + provincial tax) THEN divided by the actual kwh used, it was a little under 25 cents/kwh here. The stated "kwh" rate may not look too bad, but once you account (pun intended) for what I call all the Fairy Tale Fees that have been layered into electric bills in the last 20 years, the actual rate you are paying is way higher.

What is really scary is that ^ scam was cooked up here long before demonizing and outlawing ICE vehicles became fashionable. Two guesses where this trend-line goes, once carbon fuel taxes start to tail-off....

Rgds, D.

 

[SylvainG]

Us it's

$0.06150 per kWh for the first 40 kWh of the day (actually, it's not checked daily but over a billing period, which is around 60 days so 2,400 kWh)
$0.09502 per kWh for what's above that 2,400 kWh
$0.41168 per day of billing (flat rate, so $24.70 wether you consume electricity or not)

That's it. No other costs.

This is my last bill for 2,125 kWh for 62 days.

 

[Fuddy1952]

I'll make a prediction, (as gas station owners right now are pondering what are we going to do in a few years?).
Electric vehicles will be made desirable, people embracing them with open arms as 2035 approaches. Then suddenly people will realize all these gasoline/diesel things they have need to be junked. Things that worked well: cars including antiques, collectibles, muscle cars, lawn mowers, chain saws, tractors, trucks, motorcycles, boats...all of these petroleum burning nasty polluting things need to go. We'll see gas/diesel harder to find and super expensive.
That will be the new world if we're around then to see it.
It's already signed into law in California for mowers, saws, etc. We'll see as it sweeps across the nation.
People will love electric and despise petroleum for hundreds of reasons including saving the planet.

 

[lman]

I'll make a prediction, (as gas station owners right now are pondering what are we going to do in a few years?).
Electric vehicles will be made desirable, people embracing them with open arms as 2035 approaches. Then suddenly people will realize all these gasoline/diesel things they have need to be junked. Things that worked well: cars including antiques, collectibles, muscle cars, lawn mowers, chain saws, tractors, trucks, boats...all of these petroleum burning nasty polluting things need to go. We'll see gas/diesel harder to find and super expensive.
That will be the new world if we're around then to see it.
It's already signed into law in California for mowers, saws, etc. We'll see as it sweeps across the nation.
People will love electric and despise petroleum for hundreds of reasons including saving the planet.

And then you woke up.

 

[Whidbey]

There are always shorts covering during a run-up, and it could have contributed some to recent events. But I think the Hertz deal was a surprise. And I also think there is something else going on - but that is just a hunch of mine.

There was a post telling everyone that it was a good opportunity to short Tesla. I replied that many investors had lost their shirts trying to do exactly that. He posted again to tell everyone to not listen to me. My question is where is Tesla today compared to 3 or 6 months ago?

 

[Jstpssng]

I'll make a prediction, (as gas station owners right now are pondering what are we going to do in a few years?).
Electric vehicles will be made desirable, people embracing them with open arms as 2035 approaches. Then suddenly people will realize all these gasoline/diesel things they have need to be junked. Things that worked well: cars including antiques, collectibles, muscle cars, lawn mowers, chain saws, tractors, trucks, boats...all of these petroleum burning nasty polluting things need to go. We'll see gas/diesel harder to find and super expensive.
That will be the new world if we're around then to see it.
It's already signed into law in California for mowers, saws, etc. We'll see as it sweeps across the nation.
People will love electric and despise petroleum for hundreds of reasons including saving the planet.

I also believe that at some point in time people will realize that electric has it's own problems and isn't the panacea we thought it was.
Especially if we don't stop depending on China to provide us with the dirty metals which we won't produce in this country for environmental reasons.

 

[Egon]

Look forward to the future fuelling station. A five minute drive thru battery exchange! A very plausible future.

 

[Oaktree]

I also believe that at some point in time people will realize that electric has it's own problems and isn't the panacea we thought it was.
Especially if we don't stop depending on China to provide us with the dirty metals which we won't produce in this country for environmental reasons.

I agree 100%. Getting rid of gas/diesel powered vehicles, power tools, etc. isn't going to do squat to "save the planet", maybe screw it up differently but that's it. All that electricity has to be generated somehow, and fossil fuels are still a major component of that. Solar isn't going to be the solution...solar farms are huge, ugly and only practical in some parts of the country. Environmentalists and NIMBYs get their shorts in a major bunch on wind or hydro projects...look at the ruckus over the new powerline they want to build between Quebec and Mass. We went thru the same thing a few years ago in N.H. (disclaimer: I was opposed to the northern pass powerline here myself).
How much hydro generating capacity has been lost in the SW due to the extended drought?

Despite all the hoopla about how "recyclable" the new batteries are, you're right they're still a very dirty product, and are very dangerous regarding fire. Maybe those problems will be solved somewhat, maybe not.

There was a post telling everyone that it was a good opportunity to short Tesla. I replied that many investors had lost their shirts trying to do exactly that. He posted again to tell everyone to not listen to me. My question is where is Tesla today compared to 3 or 6 months ago?

Inexplicably, up over 100% for the year. Sooner or later this stock is going to crash big time...there's no way this company is worth anywhere near its current valuation.
I read a news story this morning that Musk is being a total crybaby over a proposed increased tax rate on billionaires. What a hypocrite...doesn't seem to have a problem with gov't subsidies and/or tax breaks, but when it comes to ponying up on tax day it's a different story.

 

[Fuddy1952]

And then you woke up.

Uh...sure...
It was a nightmare.

 

[Blue Mule]

EV ownership costs less is what's driving companies like Hertz to move towards EV fleets so EV adoption is just a dollar and sense decision. Hertz will always know the location of their vehicles the driving habits in use plus photos of accidents and passengers.

In the case of an 80 year old owner with with a paid for 2020 Toyota with 5K miles driving 200 miles monthly it's not a money factor but more of a life or death risk factor of self and others. Then there's risk factor the kids taking one's keys unless it it has Full Self Driving feature.

You lost me there.

Are you suggesting that a 2020 Toyota is a more dangerous vehicle? Or that automation is the key to safety? Neither of those things are true. Teslas have killed people at a disproportionate rate, and autonomous driving is a complete nightmare scenario. I work at the Transportation headquarters in my state and I've already seen the leaders here having meetings about how they're going to handle litigation in autonomous vehicle crashes and changes to the infrastructure that will be required to try and keep autonomous vehicles from crashing. It's a large, nasty can of worms. I hope it never comes to pass in my lifetime.