Branson tire ballast fluid?

[kantuckid]

I called the dealer/seller of my Branson 4820R which sold new 4/29/21 then used from a private seller last week to me. Only to ask which type of ballast fluid and how much it had? The seller knew it had fluid-nothing more. The young kid in service said they don't "do" the fluid, the tractors come to with Branson having placed the fluid. He was not well clued in from the conversation. Is it done by Branson or not? On another forum I was told dealers only do it with Branson, not the distributor. Maybe I'll just call the owner at that KS dealer?

 

[K5lwq]

It is done at the dealer level.

 

[oosik]

My 2009 Kubota M6040 came new from the dealer with Rim Guard. Word was - "we no longer use CaCl".

Dealer instal for sure. The Rim Guard added 1550 pounds to the tractor weight.

 

[kantuckid]

Calcium chloride is archaic and virtually never used these days and for good reason. Rotted rims were very commonly seen-I know from personal experience!
Dealers don't all do ballast fluid themselves.
I just called the Park City, KS dealers principal guy and he said he doesn't do the fluid there nor does he know what's in the tractors tires but remembers the lady who bought it and as they are relatively new to that Branson line he'll have to check into my two questions. Can't ask for more than that- a friendly call with a callback forthcoming...

People, I know how to sneek a peek in a valve stem-> I want to know how much weight I've got and exactly which fluid.

 

[ljjhouser]

When I bought my Kubota, the dealer sent the tractor to someone else to fill the tires before they delivered it. I think it might have been a tractor tire service. It has to be done at the dealer level. It is an option and there are several choices to be made - which liquid, cost, wheel weights instead, etc. Also, shipping would be a big increase if liquid is added before shipping is completed.

 

[kantuckid]

Well that dealer called me back and said the private seller must have had it placed in the tires after the sale as they don't do that. He went on to say that Branson actually recommends against using any tire fluid ballast which is very wrong minded IMO, for a tractor with a FEL. We all know it makes no sense to ship new ones with fluid for several reasons.
So I just now called my private seller and she said she'd forgotten to tell me that she had it done locally in Mo near her location. The guy there says they use only methanol and likely that he did 35 gallons in each rear tire which would equal ~ 7.8#'s x 35= 273#'s x 2 = 546#'s total. I'll keep using my rear ballast box which is from Titan and full of crushed rocks when loading logs at the mill, etc..
Thanks.

 

[kantuckid]

The Messicks tire ballast fluid chart calls for 55 gallons for a 17.5x24 rear R4 tire. I know this-if I ride my tractor two miles to a rock quarry scales I'll know exactly the weight!
The guy that did the fluid says they have seen wheel corrosion that they know came from beet juice. Many place use it-maybe some has a rust inhibitor added?

 

[Diggin It]

People, I know how to sneek a peek in a valve stem-> I want to know how much weight I've got and exactly which fluid.

That's the fastest and easiest way to tell. Much faster than several phone calls. If what comes out is reddish-brown and sweet/sticky/gooey, it's RimGuard. There are charts that tell you the weight by tire size. That MUST be put in by a dealer or tire store that is an RG agent. It isn't available otherwise.

The only other sort of common fills would be water and RV type antifreeze or windshield washer fluid, but I doubt a dealer/distributor would use either.

 

[K5lwq]

My dealer does fill the tires and uses RV antifreeze. It really depends on the dealer what they offer and the customer as to where they have it done. Many customers will do it themselves.

 

[kantuckid]

That's the fastest and easiest way to tell. Much faster than several phone calls. If what comes out is reddish-brown and sweet/sticky/gooey, it's RimGuard. There are charts that tell you the weight by tire size. That MUST be put in by a dealer or tire store that is an RG agent. It isn't available otherwise.

The only other sort of common fills would be water and RV type antifreeze or windshield washer fluid, but I doubt a dealer/distributor would use either.

I need you to make my decisions from now on, such as when to call vs. messing with valve stems & guessing how much of what they placed in the tire vs. a trully definitive answer. Really?

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

Beet Juice (Rimguard) is non corrosive. It's also heavier per pound than any other tire fill fluid. The main reason it's popular up here is it's very low freezing point (-40F). In warmer climates Rimguard may not be available due to cost and the low freeze point is not needed. So say in Texas, you may have problems finding a Rimguard dealer to fill your tires.

My dealer had a tire service fill my tires with Rimguard before he delivered it to me. The dealer didn't offer the fill service, but there are several equipment service companies here that do.

 

[kantuckid]

FWIW, in the off season I watch for Walmart RV antifreeze to be sold on clearance and the least I've ever seen was $2 jug. Compared to beet juice or methanol it's much more expensive.
Note that on beet juice I didn't say I knew it was corrosive-I said a tractor tire serviceman who does tire ballast fluids told me he has seen corrosion from beet juice. Google says it's non-corrosive and it does weigh more than alcohol and about the same as the calcium chloride of the past.

 

[5030]

Neither of my M's have filled tires and candidly I don't want them filled. I use mine for farming and ground compaction can become an issue. Both of my Kubota's have cast center sections on the rear and that is plenty of 'ballast' for my FEL's They can both easily pick up over a ton with no issue stationary or moving.

One thing to always keep in mind and that is, what is the maximum weight the front tires are capable of carrying and two, increasing the load capacity puts undue strain on the front drive assembly (if you have an FWA tractor)

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

"Compared to beet juice or methanol it's much more expensive.".....kantuckid

Really? Out here rim guard (beet juice) is 3.5 times more expensive, methanol is 2x more expensive. I was able to order 55 gal drums of -20° washer fluid for $100.
I would like to know where you can get beet juice that cheap

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

Rimguard is not cheap compared to other liquid fills, but it's much cheaper than weights.

When I was growing up on a farm in AZ, we only filled tires with straight water. It never got cold enough to freeze solid. Most it would ever do is maybe a bit of slush in the tire, but by mid day with the sun shining on the tire, the slush would be gone.

 

[kantuckid]

I said->>>>alcohol packaged as RV winterizer is typically more expensive than either beet juice or methanol-you mis-read my post. Rim-guard pricing is like the tractor prices-it's all over the place but generally cost effective choice given it's weight per gallon. Some RV fluid is far lower temps and thus could be diluted in certain climates. I have a couple of clearance sale jugs that are very low temps-much lower than the ~ 20 below I've seen here in E KY a few times.
For that matter I am not shopping for any of them to begin with. WSW fluid off the shelf is sometimes cheaper than 55gl barrels-depends on who has it and what temperature, etc.. Fluid weights are another factor and certainly wheel weights are not cost effective.

 

[K5lwq]

It is interesting how many people view something like wheel weights as not cost effective. They will spend $20,000 or more for a tractor, $2000 or more for a grapple, but $1000 for much better traction or stability is just too expensive.

Wheel weights are a one time purchase for the life of the tractor. They do not go bad or have an expiration date. When you no longer need them they can be sold and recover most of the cost. Liquid ballast is only good for the life of the tire. Depending on condition you could spend 2 or 3 times more for liquid over the life of the tractor.

 

[notaz3]

It is interesting how many people view something like wheel weights as not cost effective. They will spend $20,000 or more for a tractor, $2000 or more for a grapple, but $1000 for much better traction or stability is just too expensive.

Wheel weights are a one time purchase for the life of the tractor. They do not go bad or have an expiration date. When you no longer need them they can be sold and recover most of the cost. Liquid ballast is only good for the life of the tire. Depending on condition you could spend 2 or 3 times more for liquid over the life of the tractor.

Yes and No. The liquid can be pulled out and reinstalled when replacing tires. I like wheel weight because it doesn't change the air cushion with the tire, never freezes, and you can remove them when not needed.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Yes and No. The liquid can be pulled out and reinstalled when replacing tires. I like wheel weight because it doesn't change the air cushion with the tire, never freezes, and you can remove them when not needed.

My tractor rides nicer with fluid in the tires and 30psi (R14T). Even @ <20psi there was too much 'bounce', now its smooth.

 

[kantuckid]

Liquid ballast applies weight to the outer tread with different dynamics than does a axle centric wheel weight. This matters in the physics of that weight as rears are very large diameter. The rears still "squoosh down" to make traction, even with fluid in them and the ballast is at the point of ground contact, not up around the axle.
I served my apprenticeship as an industrial mechanic/millwright in a very modern program-honestly said it was far more sophisticated than much of the "wall paper of diplomas" I got from various college diplomas. We were once shown a Goodyear film series centered on their tire testing tracks. Zero was said about AG tires built on machines I serviced which were patented in the years prior to and just after WWI mind you! But I do recall that with road tires the entire issue of traction is tread contact based not on how much the car or truck weighs above the ground.
As a lifelong sine 1963 motorcycle rider, yet again, it's that contact patch that matters and fluid at the ground contact spot matters more in my feeble, aged senior mind. Of course lowering air pressure can assist too.
I'm not playing math guru here but fact is that wheel weights are mostly always expensive and usually far lighter than weight using fluid. Fluid is not that hard to do on the farm if your retired like me and don't clock in, etc.. The freezing aspect is well covered in modern ballast fluids?

On the R14's I asked any number of dealers when I was pricing new tractors and very few like them as they all seem to say they load up with mud even more easily than do R4's. I suppose since they are not the typical option from distribution they might lean away as a sales ploy but the tread design does have close block spacings at that. I find that with R4's they will load after only a few wheel spins when skidding logs anywhere except on pasture turf when very dry. In the winter they like to stay that way too. AG1's are no doubt the better dirt tire tread but not common in these compact & utility tractors mostly seen here on the web.
I'm looking forward to seeing what this 4820R will do with my local mud? I gained ~ 1,400lbs plus my liquid ballast and a wider rear of same diameter as my Kioti so it should do more work. Got a white oak about 125-150 years old laying up there to test on.