My Thoughts On Modern Day Tractors

[TreeDreamer]

If I didn't want a loader, 4wd, or hydrostatic I wouldn't consider any modern tractor. I'd pick up a bargain, maybe have some expenses (tires? fluids? belts/hoses) and buy a 60's or 70's workhorse like the Ford or MF (my previous tractor was a great Case 990 from the late 70's) preferrably with a Perkins diesel and use the crap out of it. Easy to work on, parts easily available, cheap to run, without nearly as much to go wrong. And I'd worry less about leaving it outside.

Mark

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

I want to add some additional insights to the weight aspect that Jeff and I was discussing that will hopefully clear up the confusion surrounding this for future buyers. If you go back to the era of the middle 60's with the Ford 1000 series you will find that they used the same frame for all of their tractors. About the only differences were the engine horsepower and tire size, everything else stayed the same. Fast forward to today and what you got is Deere making two different frames for the same size tractor. The reason behind it is Deere is selling you weight but not really telling you that. What convolutes it is they bundle all these other things in with the heavier tractors such as bells and whistles that draws you in to purchasing something that may not be what you actually need. The other manufactures like Kubota are doing the same thing but doing it in their own way. For example, Kubota makes a distinction in the quality of hydrostat transmission you get depending on which series you choose where Deere does not do that. In the Deere world it's the same hydrostat transmission no matter what series you go to. Weight is now being treated like a commodity in the tractor world in today's era of time where in the past it was not.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

Didn't think there were any tractors made after 1940s that did not come without live power. Live power to me is when PTO operates independent of whether clutch is engaged.

Lol...Exactly right? That's because there is no other industry that I know of that still builds whole good products with outdated technology.
The tractor industry is commoditizing every era of technology they can to create the illusion of choices for the consumer. When in reality it doesn't cost anymore money to put a independent PTO on a tractor then a mechanical one. In fact it's probably more expensive to build one with a mechanical PTO then an electric one.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

If I didn't want a loader, 4wd, or hydrostatic I wouldn't consider any modern tractor. I'd pick up a bargain, maybe have some expenses (tires? fluids? belts/hoses) and buy a 60's or 70's workhorse like the Ford or MF (my previous tractor was a great Case 990 from the late 70's) preferrably with a Perkins diesel and use the crap out of it. Easy to work on, parts easily available, cheap to run, without nearly as much to go wrong. And I'd worry less about leaving it outside.

Mark

But then you would be stuck with a gear drive transmission and no place to get it worked on around here if there was a problem.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

You describe a "turf" application then go on to say your property is too rugged. Which do you need? How much area do you need to maintain? Do you have a lot of hills? Maybe ventrac is worth a look. Green paint is expensive and easily outspec'd by competitors now.

If I had a lot of average with lots of nice turf plus other field maintenance Iight go with either a belly mower/brush hog combo, or maybe a rear finish/hog combo. Massey now makes an 1800 series tractor with mid PTO, these are on par with 3 series Deere.

Hello bartjoebob, my property is a combination of pasture grass that has turned into a very nice meadow and lawn grass. It's approximately 25 acres to keep cut and where I live it rains a lot and is very hot and humid so the grass grows like crazy. There's also fences to contend with.

I completely agree that Green is overpriced and underspec'd.

Rotary cutters don't do well on my property. I need a flail for the kind of vegetation and terrain that I have.

 

[jeff9366]

At the individual level, an average 18-hole golf course covers 150 acres, approximately 100 (67 percent) of which is maintained turfgrass. This area is predominantly comprised of rough (51 acres) and fairways (30 acres).
https://www.gcsaa.org › uploadedfiles › environment


A Ventrac equipped with a Ventrac flail mower or a Ventrac MK960 Wide Area Mower would be excellent for 25 acres.

Assuming a conservative Ventrac mowing speed of 5-mph, a MK960 Wide Area Mower will cut 4 to 4-1/2 acres per hour.



VIDEOS: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Ventrac+MK960

 

[JethroB]

But then you would be stuck with a gear drive transmission and no place to get it worked on around here if there was a problem.

True about mechanics and local parts. My 2018 Kubota went to the dealership for a service this week so I put a new battery in the old MF 135 and dragged some brush. Old school was fun for about an hour. Then the stiff two stage clutch straight down clutch and the getting gassed by the under rear axle diesel exhaust began to wear on me. Tough 40-ish HP brute though. I’m ready for my HST to come home.

 

[CADplans]

That's a good size tractor. The tires on the rear are pretty beefy. Is that tractor the same size as the current 4 series models?

Please explain the abbreviation TEN and FIVE.

Yea, I think the 4105 is pretty close to the current 4 Series JD tractors.

As far as the 10 and 5 tires, the Ventrac guys mention how the JD mower "digs in" on sharp turns.
The JD mower in that video has O N E tire!!

The Ventrac mower is coupled to the front of the tractor, so, in effect, the mower has S I X tires,,
I hope the Ventrac mower does not dig in,, with 6 tires holding the mower up.

As far as the comparison, I pull a 6 foot mower, and I mow over ditches that are over 1 foot deep.
I do lift the front of the mower slightly, but, I keep mowing.

As far as comparison,, I will let the Ventrac lock its brakes, and I will pull the Ventrac up that hill, while I am still mowing.
I want to see the Ventrac pull the 4105,, even on level ground,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Tony H]

I have been in the market searching for a tractor for 2 years now to use in a turf application. What started out looking like plethora of options has now come to the realty that nothing in the market exactly fits or meets my needs. The problem with the U.S compact tractor industry is all the tractors are built around loaders and lift capacity and not PTO driven implements and horsepower. This design philosophy is totally contrary to the way tractors used to be built. Ford Tractor company came out with the 1000 series tractors in 1967. The 3000 was the compact tractor of that time and went on to become one of the greatest tractors that has ever been built. They are still fetching fairly high prices fifty years later due to their bullet proof design, battle tested reliability and incredible strength and power. Coming from being an owner of one of those tractors I have been surprised and disappointed at the lack of equal offerings in today's tractors. What I have observed is neither John Deere nor Kubota are offering a medium frame size compact tractor with more then 30 PTO horsepower. John Deere has the 3046R and the 3043D but here's the problem: The 3046R is stupid expensive and the 3043D has no live PTO. Some of you will suggest that I look at another brand of tractor and I have but here is what I found when I did that. They were either way away from me and/or the quality, durability, parts support, customer service and resale value were not there. Then there is the issue of not being offered the option to have a front mount PTO like the tractors in Europe have which takes more then 20% of your productivity away. It's obvious that the industry is doing this because they don't want to cannibalize sales on their front-mount mowers but when I looked at those they too were not the right fit for my application. Those machines are made for light duty mowing applications where the turf is well maintained and the terrain is fairly even and smooth. They are not what I would consider a rugged, all terrain machine. The tires are small and the ground clearance is fairly low so getting a machine like that stuck and damaged on a property like mine would not be hard. Zero Turn mowers are wonderful but the problem with them is they only offer rotary cutters, they have no gears or brakes for hill stability and they are also not good for rougher terrain. So if you are looking for a tractor exclusively for a mowing and turf application currently there are none that fit that use type well. It's ironic that the US tractor manufacturers build better tractor solutions for Europe then it does for it's own country. I have included a link to a copy of John Deere's European edition tractor brochure so you can learn and see what is being withheld from us in the US market:

John Deere

I have been in the market searching for a tractor for 2 years now to use in a turf application. What started out looking like plethora of options has now come to the realty that nothing in the market exactly fits or meets my needs. The problem with the U.S compact tractor industry is all the tractors are built around loaders and lift capacity and not PTO driven implements and horsepower. This design philosophy is totally contrary to the way tractors used to be built. Ford Tractor company came out with the 1000 series tractors in 1967. The 3000 was the compact tractor of that time and went on to become one of the greatest tractors that has ever been built. They are still fetching fairly high prices fifty years later due to their bullet proof design, battle tested reliability and incredible strength and power. Coming from being an owner of one of those tractors I have been surprised and disappointed at the lack of equal offerings in today's tractors. What I have observed is neither John Deere nor Kubota are offering a medium frame size compact tractor with more then 30 PTO horsepower. John Deere has the 3046R and the 3043D but here's the problem: The 3046R is stupid expensive and the 3043D has no live PTO. Some of you will suggest that I look at another brand of tractor and I have but here is what I found when I did that. They were either way away from me and/or the quality, durability, parts support, customer service and resale value were not there. Then there is the issue of not being offered the option to have a front mount PTO like the tractors in Europe have which takes more then 20% of your productivity away. It's obvious that the industry is doing this because they don't want to cannibalize sales on their front-mount mowers but when I looked at those they too were not the right fit for my application. Those machines are made for light duty mowing applications where the turf is well maintained and the terrain is fairly even and smooth. They are not what I would consider a rugged, all terrain machine. The tires are small and the ground clearance is fairly low so getting a machine like that stuck and damaged on a property like mine would not be hard. Zero Turn mowers are wonderful but the problem with them is they only offer rotary cutters, they have no gears or brakes for hill stability and they are also not good for rougher terrain. So if you are looking for a tractor exclusively for a mowing and turf application currently there are none that fit that use type well. It's ironic that the US tractor manufacturers build better tractor solutions for Europe then it does for it's own country. I have included a link to a copy of John Deere's European edition tractor brochure so you can learn and see what is being withheld from us in the US market:

John Deere

So you are looking for a tough mower? Like a Ventrac?
Or are do you have basic needs of a compact AND want rugged mowing ability? Funny you say the tractors don't have good PTO power. I always thought a 24hp at PTO from a 30hp machine was pretty good.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

So you are looking for a tough mower? Like a Ventrac?
Or are do you have basic needs of a compact AND want rugged mowing ability? Funny you say the tractors don't have good PTO power. I always thought a 24hp at PTO from a 30hp machine was pretty good.

I guess you could say that. I need a rugged mower that can leave a great finish cut without bogging the engine down and losing power.

Haha if you think those numbers are good you should see the horsepower specs on the Kubota LX3310. It's kind of unbelievable.