My Thoughts On Modern Day Tractors

/ My Thoughts On Modern Day Tractors #1  

Cahaba Valley Farm

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2020
Messages
1,726
Location
Somewhere Alabama
Tractor
1980 Ford 3600
I have been in the market searching for a tractor for 2 years now to use in a turf application. What started out looking like plethora of options has now come to the realty that nothing in the market exactly fits or meets my needs. The problem with the U.S compact tractor industry is all the tractors are built around loaders and lift capacity and not PTO driven implements and horsepower. This design philosophy is totally contrary to the way tractors used to be built. Ford Tractor company came out with the 1000 series tractors in 1967. The 3000 was the compact tractor of that time and went on to become one of the greatest tractors that has ever been built. They are still fetching fairly high prices fifty years later due to their bullet proof design, battle tested reliability and incredible strength and power. Coming from being an owner of one of those tractors I have been surprised and disappointed at the lack of equal offerings in today's tractors. What I have observed is neither John Deere nor Kubota are offering a medium frame size compact tractor with more then 30 PTO horsepower. John Deere has the 3046R and the 3043D but here's the problem: The 3046R is stupid expensive and the 3043D has no live PTO. Some of you will suggest that I look at another brand of tractor and I have but here is what I found when I did that. They were either way away from me and/or the quality, durability, parts support, customer service and resale value were not there. Then there is the issue of not being offered the option to have a front mount PTO like the tractors in Europe have which takes more then 20% of your productivity away. It's obvious that the industry is doing this because they don't want to cannibalize sales on their front-mount mowers but when I looked at those they too were not the right fit for my application. Those machines are made for light duty mowing applications where the turf is well maintained and the terrain is fairly even and smooth. They are not what I would consider a rugged, all terrain machine. The tires are small and the ground clearance is fairly low so getting a machine like that stuck and damaged on a property like mine would not be hard. Zero Turn mowers are wonderful but the problem with them is they only offer rotary cutters, they have no gears or brakes for hill stability and they are also not good for rougher terrain. So if you are looking for a tractor exclusively for a mowing and turf application currently there are none that fit that use type well. It's ironic that the US tractor manufacturers build better tractor solutions for Europe then it does for it's own country. I have included a link to a copy of John Deere's European edition tractor brochure so you can learn and see what is being withheld from us in the US market:

 
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/ My Thoughts On Modern Day Tractors #2  
Have you considered a trip to Augusta? Perhaps you could convince the factory (through a dealer, of course) to sell you the specific model you require. If it meets US emission requirements there should be no big hurdles to overcome.
 
/ My Thoughts On Modern Day Tractors
  • Thread Starter
#3  
Have you considered a trip to Augusta? Perhaps you could convince the factory (through a dealer, of course) to sell you the specific model you require. If it meets US emission requirements there should be no big hurdles to overcome.
It has crossed my mind and I know for a fact that they build the European spec tractors in Augusta but my intuition tells me that Deere would never go for that.
 
/ My Thoughts On Modern Day Tractors #4  
Often the problem is not the manufacturer, bit government regulations. Sure, for some things Europe has stricter requirements, but there are thousands of laws and regulations that impact availability of some equipment in the US. Deere (or anyone) simply may not be able to sell you what you want.

Why do you want live PTO rather than independent?

I'm not sure about your other requirements, but my research for our purchase shows models from 8 brands in the 40-50 HP range that all have PTO HP from 33.9 to 41.6. The Deere has the least. (3046R). The most is the Kioti DK4510.The Farm all 45C has 38.2 PTO HP and optional mid amount PTO. But the PTO is Independent.
 
/ My Thoughts On Modern Day Tractors #5  
What about a Toro grounds keeper ?Toro auto cross 9060? Ventrac makes good machines.
 
/ My Thoughts On Modern Day Tractors #7  
Ford Tractor company came out with the 1000 series tractors in 1967. The 3000 was the compact tractor of that time and went on to become one of the greatest tractors that has ever been built. They are still fetching fairly high prices fifty years later due to their bullet proof design, battle tested reliability and incredible strength and power. Coming from being an owner of one of those tractors I have been surprised and disappointed at the lack of equal offerings in today's tractors.

Where can I buy a great NEW Ford tractor today?
 
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/ My Thoughts On Modern Day Tractors #8  

Ford 3000​


Ford 3000 Power
Engine:47 hp
35.0 kW
Drawbar (claimed):33 hp
24.6 kW
Diesel PTO (claimed):38 hp
28.3 kW
Gasoline PTO (claimed):37 hp
27.6 kW
Drawbar (tested):35.43 hp
26.4 kW
PTO (tested):40.63 hp
30.3 kW
Ford 3000 WeightShipping: 3,700 lbs
1678 kg
Operating:4,185 lbs
1898 kg
Ballasted:6,940 lbs
3147 kg
Ford 3000 tractor photo
1965 - 1975
Utility tractor
 
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/ My Thoughts On Modern Day Tractors #9  
I have a 90 - 100 HP JD that I use for turf management as well as other things and I love it. Why on earth would you want live PTO?
 
/ My Thoughts On Modern Day Tractors #10  

Kubota MX5200​

Kubota MX5200 tractor photo
2014 -
Utility tractor



Kubota MX5200 Weight:
4WD shuttle: 3,716 lbs
1685 kg
4WD hydro :3734 lbs
1693 kg
Kubota MX5200 Power
Engine (gross):54.7 hp
40.8 kW
Engine (net):52.1 hp
38.9 kW
Shuttle PTO (claimed):45.7 hp
34.1 kW
Hydro PTO (claimed):44.2 hp
33.0 kW
 
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/ My Thoughts On Modern Day Tractors #11  

Kubota MX5200​

Kubota MX5200 tractor photo
2014 -
Utility tractor



Kubota MX5200 Weight:
4WD shuttle: 3,716 lbs
1685 kg
4WD hydro :3734 lbs
1693 kg
Kubota MX5200 Power
Engine (gross):54.7 hp
40.8 kW
Engine (net):52.1 hp
38.9 kW
Shuttle PTO (claimed):45.7 hp
34.1 kW
Hydro PTO (claimed):44.2 hp
33.0 kW

That there looks like the problem is solved..... He can find one on the ground, road trip to grab it and be smiling and happy with a machine that meets his needs and expectations. Boom! Money!
 
/ My Thoughts On Modern Day Tractors #12  
I have a 90 - 100 HP JD that I use for turf management as well as other things and I love it. Why on earth would you want live PTO?
I'm guessing he doesn't. He just used the wrong word to describe the PTO he wants.

PTO nomenclature has been so hopelessly messed up by manufacturing advertising that it makes more sense to just refer to the specifications.

And that's easy, because everyone wants the same thing:
They want a mechanical PTO that can be engaged and clutched independently of whatever the tractor is doing.

Most people call that a "fully independent" PTO. Whatever you call it, that's the gold standard... If you want the ability to run many PTO attachments that's what you want. And it has been available on US & European tractors for 50 years or more. Often it is an option.
The Ford 3000 has that PTO, so does our Kubota M series, and our 1958 JD.

rScotty
 
/ My Thoughts On Modern Day Tractors #13  
Huh? This seems like a weird criticism. There are literally hundreds of compact tractor models available in our market. If you can't find one with enough PTO horsepower for your needs, you just aren't actually trying. Tell us what your criteria is and we'll tell you multiple candidates.

P.S. I bet you don't want to know how much those John Deeres in Europe cost to buy....
 
/ My Thoughts On Modern Day Tractors #14  
If I was working the ground on 40 acres, I'd get a tractor just like that Ford 3000 - or anyone of a dozen others much like it that were built in that era. Their weight distribution was perfect for pulling. A FEL was functional....but it was an afterthought and added weight to an already heavy fore foot.

But today my work on our land is more of resculpting and sort of large scale landscaping. For that I want a tractor more set up for pushing and working with the FEL. For that I like the more modern tractors and especially the Kubota TLBs.
 
/ My Thoughts On Modern Day Tractors
  • Thread Starter
#15  
I have a 90 - 100 HP JD that I use for turf management as well as other things and I love it. Why on earth would you want live PTO?
The real question is why on earth would John Deere build a tractor with a transmission driven PTO? That tractor is useless for anything other then pulling wagons and carts around.
 
/ My Thoughts On Modern Day Tractors
  • Thread Starter
#16  
Huh? This seems like a weird criticism. There are literally hundreds of compact tractor models available in our market. If you can't find one with enough PTO horsepower for your needs, you just aren't actually trying. Tell us what your criteria is and we'll tell you multiple candidates.

P.S. I bet you don't want to know how much those John Deeres in Europe cost to buy....
Did you actually read my post? If not, go back and re read it.
 
/ My Thoughts On Modern Day Tractors
  • Thread Starter
#17  
That there looks like the problem is solved..... He can find one on the ground, road trip to grab it and be smiling and happy with a machine that meets his needs and expectations. Boom! Money!
That is not a medium frame size compact tractor.
 
/ My Thoughts On Modern Day Tractors #18  
/ My Thoughts On Modern Day Tractors #19  
The real question is why on earth would John Deere build a tractor with a transmission driven PTO? That tractor is useless for anything other then pulling wagons and carts around.

What modern day tractor lacks the ability to run the pto with the tractor being stationary? I’m guessing none.
 
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Reactions: JWR
/ My Thoughts On Modern Day Tractors #20  
Well I looked through that brochure, the only thing that I really noticed in there was the availability of a front 540 PTO and a front 3 point hitch.
Yes I would like to see those options offered on more tractors as well as multi speed PTO's including ground drive speed on the American models as well as the factory trailer braking hookups offered overseas
 

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