My Industrial Cabin Build

[WoodChuckDad]

We dropped another video this morning. Pulled the last of the Pex.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

The Fergusons in the main metro were really bad. I mean they would literally bark at you to get out as we don't sell to your kind here. It was ridiculous. We had one of them that was situatued outside the metro in a more rural area near me and those guys were willing to work with you. ...Until recently... They said they got word from on high to stop doing that I guess. But if your local ones will work with you then they are good. That attitude that we got just really ticked me off a lot. I have money and want to give it to you but you won't take it? Really???

Yea, you sometimes wonder. But then again, sometimes it don’t pay to interactive with some of the Harry homeowners who don’t know what they need, and will try one thing, return it, try something else, etc. I can see the supply house point of view. They normally fix that with a 20% restocking fee.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

So I went by the drilling place in Louisa today. Drilling service Inc. I told the guy I was building a house and I was ready to hook up the well told him what volume of water I needed what my expected usage was going to be said I was trying to appropriately sized the pump for the well. He said “are you a contractor? “
I said “No, there are no contractors. I built the house myself. “
And he said “well ,we only sell to contractors we can’t sell you anything. That’s a corporate decision. “. So I need to find some other place to get the stuff that I need for the pump and the line otherwise I’m stuck with just buying stuff from the big box stores. I am sure that I can find someone online to get the stuff from that might just be what I do and buy it and have it shipped. But my intention was to do business with a local company and keep my money local.
I have run into this sort of thing before. When I’ve tried to sell a house by myself I got a lot of pushback and sort of an aggressive negative nature from realtors. I’ve had the same situation with lawyers when I was trying to do something myself there are a lot of things that you can do yourself if you’re allowed to but there are certain industries that try to lock the common person out of being able to do anyThing without the paid assistance of somebody in that industry. I have no problem whatsoever with paying the going price for a good or service that I need to get from somebody but the idea that I can walk into the store that sells the place and they won’t sell it to me unless I pay a middleman a 30 or 60% mark up Just does not sit well.

I AM a contractor, and still buy online for better pricing. Do some research and shopping, screw that "local" business.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

Yea, you sometimes wonder. But then again, sometimes it don’t pay to interactive with some of the Harry homeowners who don’t know what they need, and will try one thing, return it, try something else, etc. I can see the supply house point of view. They normally fix that with a 20% restocking fee.

You just nailed it...

 

[deezler]

Our home building contractor and architect sent my wife and I to our local Ferguson to make our plumbing selections during our build. The sink Moen and Kohler faucets were all listed at $200 plus apiece. We walked out, drove home, and went to build.com and bought the exact same fixtures for 25% of the Ferguson prices instead.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

Our home building contractor and architect sent my wife and I to our local Ferguson to make our plumbing selections during our build. The sink Moen and Kohler faucets were all listed at $200 plus apiece. We walked out, drove home, and went to build.com and bought the exact same fixtures for 25% of the Ferguson prices instead.

Two years ago I remodeled all the bathrooms in my house; master, half, and four others in bedrooms. I did the exact same thing with the Kohler bath fixtures and a soaking tub for wifey. Saved huge dollars at Build.com and Wayfair, believe it or not...

 

[Carl_NH]

Based on static water at 56' a pump set at 185-190' or 20-25' off the bottom should work well. As over time sediment from drilling and with water inflow - sand etc. will settle to the bottom, and your main water seam is at 130-140 depth so you will be pumping on average around 100-120' depth most likely.

Most pumps are 4" diameter, 230VAC, and then you can get 2 Wire pumps (start capacitor and controls in the pump) or three wire pump (with a control box/start capacitors in the house). For serviceability best to go 3 wire with the above ground control box, though 2 wire pumps last a long time too.

As far as pumps, you could get by with a 1/2HP pump - 5 GPM, set at 190' and this will pump 5 GPM or so across the 40-60 PSI pressure and depth range. If you bump up to a 3/4 HP pump you will yield about 7 GPM average - enough two people to shower at once (unless you have one of those multi head showers).

Talking pump life - starts - you want to minimize starts as that's what kills pump motors, so you can put in a decent size tank drawdown of 15 gallons (2 min run time @ 7 GPM) then you can install a cycle stop valve (CSV) later too which will keep the pump running longer as long as there is demand.

Wire size - depending on the run from the house panel to the switch, then to the well head and pump, #12 3 Wire will run a 3/4 HP up to about 450' total (to the pump). A 3/4 HP is around 10-12 start amps and 7 running amps.

As others have said, run UF to the pump head, and sub pump wire in the well. You can read a lot more in the attached Goulds pump manual - it's not an advertisement for Goulds but a general guideline for pump installation wire sizing and more.

Then an example quote today on a system with a 3/4 Goulds pump example and most everything you would need $2500 range based on a pump set at 200' and the well being 200' from the house. Hope this info helps you in your research.

Hello David,

This referring back to post 2497 regarding your pump selection and options. It's always preferred to buy from your local suppliers but if they don't/won't then buy on line and install it yourself. I have used You are being redirected... as a source for pumps, pipe and systems and as posted with a materials list, a full pump setup was around $2500. as posted.

 

[dstig1]

Yea, you sometimes wonder. But then again, sometimes it don’t pay to interactive with some of the Harry homeowners who don’t know what they need, and will try one thing, return it, try something else, etc. I can see the supply house point of view. They normally fix that with a 20% restocking fee.

I do understand that point. But there are many of us out here that actually have a clue as to what we are doing. Now I might ask them which tubing is best for this of their options, but that is about it. Mostly i know what i want and why. You can make the point that we are not here to hold your hand but if you know what you want, sell it to them! And it still does not require being a total jacka$$ to potential customers, no matter what. This here is 'Murrica!!!

Two years ago I remodeled all the bathrooms in my house; master, half, and four others in bedrooms. I did the exact same thing with the Kohler bath fixtures and a soaking tub for wifey. Saved huge dollars at Build.com and Wayfair, believe it or not...

And believe it or not Build.com is owned by the very same Ferguson... Go figger...

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

I had the same problem at an A/C supplier. Needed a fan motor, blade....wouldn't sell it to me.

So I went to another place and bought them, also got a spare set of contacts and a capacitor. Was glad to give them my business.

SupplyHouse.com (I've had good luck with these guys too)

 

[dstig1]

Watched the video - I kept wondering why you got your doors so early. Now you are talking about putting them in before drywall???? You got some weird doors that need to be installed first? Doors - along with all fiished trim and woodwork - go in AFTER drywall and paint, not before. Not sure what you are doing/planning???

 

[s219]

We always did doors and trim after drywall (and often after paint even). I suppose doors could be put in before drywall but I have never seen it done. It will make life harder for the drywall crew and I think your trim work will not be as easy afterwards. Also, you risk getting the doors and jambs dusty and all dinged up by the drywall crew. Moving drywall material through the doorways is a risk, as well as tools/holsters on a belt scratching the doors and jambs.

On our current house, we painted the walls and ceilings, then put all the doors in and did trim work, then removed the doors from the hinges and set them up in the garage to paint them with a spray gun. That resulted in a real nice finish on the doors and less fuss work, but I am 50/50 whether it was easier in a big picture way. Yeah, the door finish looks so much nicer, but after that process, I started feeling like brush strokes on a door weren't so bad after all.

 

[deezler]

Yeah, don't you want to set the door jambs to be flush with the installed drywall (at least on the primary side), to make your trim work that much easier?

 

[s219]

I didn't see whether you insulated your hot water lines. I never really paid attention to that over the years, but when our plumber subcontractor did our current house, he was adamant that it's important to do in certain circumstances. Especially on any long runs or where hot and cold lines are in proximity. Pretty inexpensive too.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Doors go in later, after drywall and paint, before trim.

 

[airbiscuit]

From the video, I took hanging doors to be on their To Do list, but I didn't take it to be done before sheetrocking.

 

[WoodChuckDad]

I’ve been reading thru all of your comments on the doors. My biggest issue is what to do with the doors if I wait to install them. The next issue is i have several of the doorways that are not framed out yet. That one isnt near as difficult as the first. I could probably hang the doors, then remove from hinges and take them by truck to a storage unit 15 miles away. I could put them in the old shed I rebuilt but then I am contending with mice and birds crapping all over them.
I have run into another issue that is much more troublesome. My mechanical room is too small. It is 8’9”by 5’6”. I am thinking of moving the electrical panel to an alcove near the back door this would put the panel on the outer wall, making it easier to pull the electric in. That would free up the space i. The mechanical room that I need.
I had originally intended to use propane on demand water heater but have been questioning that idea due to projected propane cost and and supply.
It is late in the game to be rethinking this all. Maybe I just didn’t have enough to drive me crazy.

Btw I dropped another video yesterday. Really not much to it besides putting plates up to protect the pex and electric.

 

[s219]

One caution with modern interior doors is that they are usually not very capable of handling humidity changes (old doors weren't either, but it was a different type of problem). Depends on the door construction of course, but I have seen both hollow core and solid doors split and expand when stored without climate control. So whatever you do with the doors, don't store them too far away from a typical "interior" condition of humidity (no more than 55-60% RH).

When we built our house, we were able to setup the geothermal system to run gentle backup heat as soon as the framing was done, electrical/plumbing/HVAC roughed in, and roof on. An amazing amount of dehumidification started taking place through the entire house just by setting the heat to 55F. We installed insulation, drywall, doors, and trim and went on our merry way. Only one interior door split, and that was the one in a garage closet (in retrospect, I should have known).

Our neighbors really liked our interior doors and picked the same ones for their house, which was about 2-3 months behind ours in schedule. Well, the timing didn't work out for their climate control system, and almost all their interior doors had issues and had to be repaired.

These were solid core craftsman style doors, with real wood around the edges and a thinner panel in the center (sort of an inset picture frame look). MDF was used for that center panel. That was the cause of all the problems, as MDF loves to swell with humidity and it was popping the outer wood joints apart. Door makers like MDF for stability in large panels (no warping) but it has limits for humidity. Hollow core and less expensive solid doors may use all MDF except for the hinge edge frame, and may be even more susceptible to humidity.

So long story short, plan on installing and/or storing those interior doors under "interior" climate conditions.

 

[s219]

As far as propane, we were planning on it but in the end didn't need it. My wife didn't care whether we had a gas cooktop or electric, I went diesel for my generator, and we had geothermal with hot water exchanger for HVAC. We were able to install a real nice Rheem electric hot water heater that has proven to be very efficient, especially since the geothermal system preheats the water for a boost. So in the end we didn't need propane and are all electric.

Our electric bill is the same as our old house which was 2/3 size, and we don't have the additional gas bill we had at the old house. I like not having an additional utility source/bill to think about. Sometimes the gas bill was shockingly high.

I know there used to be on-demand hot water heaters that were electric. If those are still a thing, check into it. There were some that were installed at point of use (under sink vanity or in bathroom closet, for example) and others that were meant to service the whole house. The point of use heaters have a lot of appeal.

 

[EddieWalker]

The on demand electric heaters use a massive amount of electricity. They do not save you money. If you want an on demand water heater, you have to use gas. For me, I went over the numbers and I couldn't see an advantage to go with instant heat over a good quality traditional water heater. The savings over time just didn't add up to the cost of it, and if you have to deal with minerals in your water, then it's even worse.

In your video, you explained where you cut your studs too short when you first started building, and then you learned that they are supposed to be 93 inches long, so you cut 8ft long 2x4s down to 93 inches to have the correct height for your walls on the other half of the house. What is done is done, but the actual length of a stud is 93 5/8's inches. Most every store sells them right next to the full length 8 foot long 2x4s for less money.

Your explanation for their length was pretty good. I'll just add that most ceilings use 5/8's sheetrock. If you use 1/2 inch, it will bow over time because it cannot span 24 inches. If your ceiling joists are 16 inches, then half inch is fine, but most homes have them at 24 inches.

On your bump out that you added for your vent line being off a little. I would either do the entire wall that thickness, or cut the concrete and move the vent line. This is something that you will have to look at for the rest of your life, and spending half a day fixing it would solve the problem. In older homes where 4 inch cast iron was used for vent lines, the bathroom walls are all double stud walls. Nobody knows this until they remodel those bathrooms, then they see all the space that was used just to make the wall look nice and deal with such a massive pipe in the wall. When I find this during a remodel, I remove the cast iron and run PVC that fits inside just one wall so I can make the room a little bigger. You don't have to have a 2 inch vent line. Most homes are going with 1 1/2 inch, and I've seen plenty with just on inch vent lines for sinks. Toilets like the bigger vent line, but since they flush so much less water then before, you don't need your vent lines to be that big anymore. If this is a CODE issue for you, wait until it gets inspected, then tear it out and make it look nice.

 

[WoodChuckDad]

I looked into on demand electric water heaters. Higher amounts of energy needed and you require 30 amp and larger circuits for them.
I make myself crazy with all of this. I think space limitations are going to force my hand and make me use the tankless propane. If I had experience I would know that I needed a larger mechanical room. Probably twice the size.