Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[Gale Hawkins]

Automakers studying environmental impact of lithium mining

Maybe some forethought will sidestep some fossil fuel extraction mistakes of yesteryears.

 

[3930dave]

Paying for roads with a gas tax is another example of a good idea broken by bad execution. With EVs taking over, probably the best way is to just tax the vehicle up front when purchased for whatever road tax the vehicle would be subject to (or the govt needs to collect) over its lifetime and get rid of the gas tax altogether. That way ICE or EV pays the same and the rich folks buying expensive new vehicles would in practice pay a little more in tax than the guy buying used.

Income Tax was brought in as a temporary measure in Canada. to fund WW I. Very few taxes ever disappear (meaning the mechanism of; the money itself vapourizes in zero time).

Many average folk here have trouble enough buying a new car now, let alone with lifetime taxes applied up front...... but, as another tool in the toolbox to discourage more people from owning vehicles, that has legs !

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

Here off read diesel has federal tax, but no state tax.

Most provinces here have marked diesel for off-road use. More rare, but I've even seen marked gasoline in Ag areas in BC.

I could likely track down marked diesel near home, but as I don't put many hours/year on my tractor (ag), and I have a road going diesel, I decided a long time ago just to keep road (taxed) diesel in any spare cans I have.

The one time I had to fill a truck at the side of a road from my can, it was a friend of a friend's truck. With my relationship with Murphy, if it was my truck I was trying to limp somewhere - putting Marked diesel into it would have guaranteed that 10 miles down the road I would have been waved over to have the tank dipped.

Taxing personal mobility (vehicles; the other meaning is a different, much longer story....) is big business for any govt. As the market transitions to EV, the tax strategy will migrate, as it already has started to in some areas.....

The House, Always Wins.

Rgds, D.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

First FSD beta without radar.

Daytime version of the above test.

 

[goeduck]

^^^ our off road diesel is red, I use it in my tractors but never in my on road vehicles. That said, I know of no one who has ever had their tank dipped. Maybe in the more agricultural counties they do, but here our cops probably don't even know about it.

I cannot say that electronic tamper proof odometers would not be the way to go for fair taxation. My county gets back $0.39 for road projects per every dollar of fuel tax we pay. In WA we pay about $0.68 per gallon federal and local taxes ranking us 3rd highest in the country behind PA and CA.

 

[Solitary Man]

Quite so, at least when it comes to vehicles.
The gas tax does not know ones income.
A poor guy with his older, less fuel efficient car pays more gas tax.
Poorer people generally use trucks more often to do manual labor jobs, so they consume more fuel and pay more tax.
If the government is going to subsidize EVs and really wants to help the poor and the hungry, it should give priority to people on the margins and make the rich guys pay full cost. Lol

Let's see. Tax the rich to pay for the poor. Been there, done that. Please tell me you have a plan B.

 

[Fixastuff]

Let's see. Tax the rich to pay for the poor. Been there, done that. Please tell me you have a plan B.

Just have the rich pay the same 33% average that us normal citizens pay. I know they pay more $ amount of taxes than us peasants but it seems to me if you have 99% of the wealth you should be paying 99% of the taxes.

 

[Hay Dude]

Paying for roads with a gas tax is another example of a good idea broken by bad execution. With EVs taking over, probably the best way is to just tax the vehicle up front when purchased for whatever road tax the vehicle would be subject to (or the govt needs to collect) over its lifetime and get rid of the gas tax altogether. That way ICE or EV pays the same and the rich folks buying expensive new vehicles would in practice pay a little more in tax than the guy buying used.

So why are they doing the opposite? Instead of taxing them they are subsidizing them! How many EVs are on the road now? A million? Such a thrill to know I am subsidizing my rich clown neighbors Tesla!
Kinda like the opposite of what they should be doing?
Sounds like the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Currently Tesla and GM EV buyers do not get a tax credit.

 

[Solitary Man]

Currently Tesla and GM EV buyers do not get a tax credit.

Correct.

When does Tesla’s tax credit phase out?​

Tesla’s $7,500 tax credit per vehicle drops to $3,750 on Jan. 1, 2019. It drops to $1,875 on July 1, 2019, then vanishes entirely on Jan. 1, 2020.

 

[Solitary Man]

Sounds like the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer.

I would guess the tax cuts for the super rich a few years back must have really frosted your butt.

 

[Hay Dude]

I would guess the tax cuts for the super rich a few years back must have really frosted your butt.

No because they already pay an unbalanced amount.
The gas tax is the same for everyone, rich or poor.
Expensive new EVs, unaffordable to the poor, are taxpayer subsidized for the wealthy who can afford them.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Tax credits are not required to sell EVs in the USA but for Tesla to build a $2 billion new factory in the eastner USA could help USA tax payers more than Tesla building the same factory in the UK.

 

[sd455dan]

RAM to have an electric truck- in another 3 years. Hints only

 

[Fuddy1952]

Just have the rich pay the same 33% average that us normal citizens pay. I know they pay more $ amount of taxes than us peasants but it seems to me if you have 99% of the wealth you should be paying 99% of the taxes.

I just can't understand "if you have 99% of the wealth you should be paying 99% of the taxes.", no offense intended.

Think about taxes for a bit.
Who benefits the most from tax revenue, the rich or the poor? The poor in general can have free housing (section eight), medical care (Medicaid), food stamps, utilities, education, school lunch and the list goes on and on of free stuff.
The rich have use of roads and that's about it. Most rich buy lots of expensive things paying a lot of taxes, entrepreneurs have employees who also pay taxes. The company or corporation pays taxes. Most wealthy pay sending their kids to private schools. Investment capital gains, dividends and interest is also taxed. The rich may have legitimate write-offs but believe me they pay lots of taxes.
So those who benefit the most from tax revenues pay the least amount of tax or no tax at all.
The rich are already pulling the wagon load of free stuff for the poor. Adding more weight to the wagon isn't the answer as it will eventually break.
Would you really want to live where success is punished while the poor reap rewards?

 

[Egon]

Yeah, well you may be waiting a long time my friend.
If I have a 60,000lb truck and drive it 10,000 miles a year, I still pay the Commonwealth of PA $3,400/yr for registration. If my competitor has a 50,000lb truck and drives it 200,000 miles a year, he pays $2,900 a year for PA registration.
I bet his truck damages the roads and wears them out a lot more than my truck, yet he pays less than I do.
I agree with you the technology exists to make all these fees more fairly paid, but it won’t happen.

I would really like to see what EVs cost without subsidies and an appropriate road tax.
I bet the purchase looks a lot less attractive.

Ever think the base vehicle would be registered!

 

[Phil Timmons]

A 240 volt outlet in your garage is a necessary EV accessory. If your garage is full of stuff, it's not hard to make up a 240 volt extension cord that will reach the driveway. Apartment dwellers who don't control their parking spaces will be out of luck, but it's not like apartment dwellers can afford a new car anyway. Landlords will eventually get around to installing charging stations, but it may be a decade or two.

The Top End Real Estate Leases (upper end Condos, etc.) are already putting in EV chargers as feature for their upper end tenants.

Bottom End -- as usual . . . not so much. Until the Bottom End Landlords figure out they can charge the low income tenant a mark-up on the Electricity.

 

[Phil Timmons]

I just can't understand "if you have 99% of the wealth you should be paying 99% of the taxes.", no offense intended.

Think about taxes for a bit.
Who benefits the most from tax revenue, the rich or the poor? The poor in general can have free housing (section eight), medical care (Medicaid), food stamps, utilities, education, school lunch and the list goes on and on of free stuff.
The rich have use of roads and that's about it. Most rich buy lots of expensive things paying a lot of taxes, entrepreneurs have employees who also pay taxes. The company or corporation pays taxes. Most wealthy pay sending their kids to private schools. Investment capital gains, dividends and interest is also taxed. The rich may have legitimate write-offs but believe me they pay lots of taxes.
So those who benefit the most from tax revenues pay the least amount of tax or no tax at all.
The rich are already pulling the wagon load of free stuff for the poor. Adding more weight to the wagon isn't the answer as it will eventually break.
Would you really want to live where success is punished while the poor reap rewards?

Wealthy and Upper End are the main beneficiary of the Status Quo and "Defense" of US, as things are.

The means and methods the Upper End enjoys -- e.g., the favorable Court System, Law Enforcement, exclusive neighborhoods, "better" schools, better water, air, and food, medical system(s) -- ALL benefit the Top End the most. But it is not like some accident of birth -- it is the design with intent.

But since most of the Wealthy do very little actual "work" for the Wealth -- as you noted -- Capital Gains, which by their very definition are UNEARNED Income -- they most generate the Wealth from the Wealth and actual work is all done by the Lower Classes.

Real Question -- when have you EVER seen the Wealthy "pulling the wagon" as you say . . . either metaphorically or in fact?

 

[Grumpycat]

I would be careful of an EV with even slight impact to the battery compartment.
Can individual Cells be replaced easily?

Tesla Model S batteries are commonly broken up and sold as modules on eBay.

 

[Grumpycat]

Big Oil Knows Hydrogen Is Dead End, But Uses It To Delay Electrification

Another view on hydrogen to power EVs.

Pretty much what I have been saying all along.

H2 costs too much to make with electricity when one could charge a battery and drive at least twice as far on the same energy.

H2 is the darling of government because it preserves the "gas station model" which is easy to regulate, tax, and easy to extort funds for re-election campaigns.