first time painting - should I grind off the thin surface rust or just apply rust converter?

[willimakit]

I powdercoat steel like this everyday. Proper powdercoat is similar to painting with regard to metal prep. I use a sand blaster filled with fine grit (80) crushed glass to remove the dusty rust residue followed by just enough phosphoric acid to cure any remaining rust stain. Any white residue from dried acid must be removed. Use a good epoxy primer which contains some zinc. Once you overcoat with color, your paint job will last as long as the color coat remains. If you get scratches or gouges from use, the zinc in the primer will prevent rust from forming at the edge of the tear. Touch up as soon as possible.

 

[Egon]

Show us somewhere this is written?

Show us somewhere this is written?

Canadian Welding Bureau - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Egon]

Where did he explain anything? Clucking on a link about some exotic alloy is different than explaining something..
Secondly just how is this "the problem"?

Iron/steel is composed of grains. Between the grains there is a boundary layer which may include inclusions of carbon or other elements. The grain sizes are mostly determined by the rate of cooling or tempering methods and percentages of different elements included in the Steel. These boundaries act as a battery with transfer of materials between the anode and cathode.. IE Rust. Phosphoric acid is one way to neutalize or stop this action by creating a film over it.

Note: do you recall the days when Rolls Royce engine blocks were cast and then stored for a few years? This was so carbon could form at the grain boundaries and increase the block strength. It's not done anymore as metallurgical processes have changed.

Many of the paints you use will have rust preventative chemicals added.

 

[PILOON]

Well 18 years ago I made a DIY cab.

I wire brushed and used grinder for rough welds and then acid etched everything.
Next primed and painted.
To this day it still looks as good as the day I built that cab!
Now my fenders, which were factory painted, are in sad shape and need attention.
Also I'll add that I sloshed some linseed oil inside my cab tubing structure B4 plugging the open ends. (trick learned from aviation) No rust 4 me.

 

[Sberry]

I will agree there is a perfect ,, good better best way to go this especially if a guy has a steep budget.
You can always make it better, get no argument from me with that. But this is a first time implement project, first time painter.
Read the back of the can. Says clean it. Paint it. Once in s while mentions the grit.
You also get no argument from me that powder is excel r, can be great but it ain't always so. I never had custom applied epoxy come off in sheet fashion. Not saying yours does but lots of paint in the world fell off dun by experts and lots look ok by semi skilled. I got 20 yr 30 jobs too, got spray can hold up near as long cause its stored indoors, some outdoor doesnt look bad considering.

 

[Sberry]

I ain't trying to argue that isn't true,, just that it ain't gonna mean s pinch of shot yo this guy now and maybe never. Actually most likely never.

 

[Sberry]

If I am painting that it's getting some before the end of the day if I am busy. Ut if all is perfect ahi solar paint job on a common implement should outlast a scuff and dip a brush in the can job but it's a value call for the owner.
You wanna be a compulsive mental masturbator or you wanna get it done on practical fashion with appropriate results

 

[Sberry]

 

[Sberry]

Before we put some black on the pump. There is a guard somewhere, and we sponge paint the pump orange again. All left over, about 3 standing disks and a pad.
Paint still looks decent, 10 yrs out in the weather . No regrets about not standing around tossing 100$ bills at it.

 

[Sberry]

Guy is gonna paint an implement and we give instructions to do the space shuttle.

 

[Gord Baker]

Nice paint booth. That looks small for a 4020, especially the steering wheel. You will have a lot of hand painting to do on moving parts unless you were able to move them while painting.

 

[Sberry]

Something else. When a premium paint job wears or chops, say epoxy primer the top can go but the primer is still there, may be coompletlysealed it takes a long time to fail. When powder let's go it's all bare under. Trailer hitches and similar are poster cases for it. Cant really fix it like you can paint.
With equipment, say brush hog , other similar tools if they last long enough and paint matters it's likely had or in need of other work.

 

[Sberry]

Nice paint booth. That looks small for a 4020, especially the steering wheel. You will have a lot of hand painting to do on moving parts unless you were able to move them while painting.

I flip stuff around to paint and used a pressure pot so the gun would spray all position. It's really stripped which helps and my booth is big enough I can lay out a whole tractor.
The pictures might be from various jobs, some this more than once. I like rigging on pallets if I can, turn in progress or stage and can stay up wind put the stuff in the air stream, the booth clears very well.

 

[Sberry]

Canadian Welding Bureau - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Where was it written anyone takes pictures of welding needs certified?

 

[Sberry]

A good share of the worlds work is done by semi skilled people with none or minimal supervision and world would come to a standstill if it was all required to be done under strict inspection or standards. While it is interesting Rolls does that to their engine blocks we are dealing with implements here, seems this would be obvious to such literate people. What's really frustrating is we have educated people cant tell the difference between these 2 things.

 

[Sberry]

There is a practical level and nothing wrong with a deeper level. There are standards and codes I suppose.
As I mention in another post intent drives quality. Sanding and grinding at super and as a fabricator/painter often consider this along the way and prep the stock before converting it. I whack it with a heavy sander
It's easy to do ends even clean local for welding. Where is was simple enough have tape where we gonna weld and prime the rest and simply grind primer off first incendentals. Keeps all the splatter off.

 

[Sberry]

I have bulk sand which makes it different but even with no recovery I try to clean where practical before blast.. I understand about zhit in the steel. Last job on a structural I did ended up regretting another hour with the hot wash.
I lost a couple pics. I went over it with the owner, I took a scraper with him there and cleared it.

 

[Sberry]

So, I will try to recover some pics. But was a snow grade or groomer. Sander, about 40 or 50 80 grit da, then some 4 inch wire wheel and finally reach with heavy pencil cup style wire
Got it done and on time and budget, when I quoted it they moaned over pricing but when they got it all that went away
They asked us to do more and didnt blink at the quotes.
Only used color, got it all on, it was cool and o waited tje next day to do a second and just dry enough I could really hang a wet top coat on and level the flats
There is some painter spray skill but it mainly looked so good from doing a good cleaning job.

 

[workinonit]

What's really frustrating is we have educated people cant tell the difference between these 2 things.

I do enjoy your welding posts. I think your knowledge of welding is off the charts. I have no idea what you know about painting and electrical work, obviously a fraction of your welding knowledge. I do notice you have negative things to say regarding educated people a lot, especially engineers. I guess you just don't care for educated people and the way they think?

 

[Sberry]

Not at all, I have a lot of respect for engineers. They can do things way above my head, studded doesnt even occur to me. We do have a new class though that pretty much perfected emails, make sure there is a paper trail so they can figure out who to blame it on.