PTO Mulcher Considerations and Reviews

[Maplechuck]

Hello all,

This is my first post on TBN and I'd just like to say what a terrific and helpful community this is. Thank you all! I have already learned so much just from reading about others' experiences, tips and tricks.

Now, about me, my project and question: This past winter I purchased a 224 acre wood loot in Central Vermont. The previous owner did a fairly heavy cut about 4 years ago (taking out any timber of value) and I'd like to keep as much of the clear cuts open as I can (maybe 15-20 acres), eventually planting a small apple orchard. The wooded portion of the land is about 30% spruce-fir softwoods and 70% sugar maple-dominated hardwoods.

I'm in the middle of the ordering process for a Kubota 7060 12spd transmission (I think I found the right tractor for my application... but I'm interesting in hearing other opinions here as well) and I'm looking at the best implements for clearing the land (and by that I mean removing logging slash and grind stumps down to a mowable level). I really like the idea of forestry mulching and I'm trying to figure out if A) is a PTO-driven mulcher is worth it on a 70hp utility tractor, and B) what models and brands would fit my application?

I'm looking at the Seppi Miniforst 150 with "swinging duo hammers" which seems pretty ideal and my local dealer carries it, but the $22K price tag is a lot to swallow as a landowner. Are there any cheaper alternatives to a forestry mulcher that get a similar result? I'm planning on using the mulcher in conjunction with a heavy-duty root grapple on the loader.

 

[Captain Dirty]

Maintenance on a 224 acre woodlot will never be "once and done", but mulching 15-20 acres could be a job to hire out and be done. Get a price from a local land-clearing contractor. If the local tractor dealer carries forestry mulchers there should be some around so you can find out more about them like suitability to the local soils (rocks), operating costs, maintenance requirements, etc. As forestry munchers could be considered flail mowers on steroids, after the initial clearing a flail mower may be adequate and less expensive.

 

[Maplechuck]

Maintenance on a 224 acre woodlot will never be "once and done", but mulching 15-20 acres could be a job to hire out and be done. Get a price from a local land-clearing contractor. If the local tractor dealer carries forestry mulchers there should be some around so you can find out more about them like suitability to the local soils (rocks), operating costs, maintenance requirements, etc. As forestry munchers could be considered flail mowers on steroids, after the initial clearing a flail mower may be adequate and less expensive.

Thanks for your reply. As far as hiring it out.... that was naturally the first thing I looked into but the cost to do anything more than 1-2 acres quickly get astronomical. I got quotes from two contractors. One runs a large Fecon head on a skid steer, charges a variable cost of what should come out to ~$1,800/day and the other operates a larger dedicated-mulcher machine but charges a flat $3,000/day. Both can do 0.5-1.5 acres/day depending on conditions. If it was 2-3 day job that would certainly be the way to go. But my property will be ongoing and if I hired everything out I'd be looking at $100K+ bill over the next couple of years. Additionally, much of the fun and reward is doing it yourself and then sitting back and looking at the end result.

I also looked at renting a skid-steer mulcher for a week or two (the rental place in my part of Vermont charges $3,800/wk for 40 machine hours for a high-flow machine with a muching head). However, I don't want to deal with a rental skid steer and the inevitable hydraulic problems on a machine that's not my own and I like the flexibility of owning the mulcher myself--I just don't like that $23K price tag for the entry-level PTO unit (if I can avoid it).

What are the advantages of skid-steer mulchers over a PTO-driven one on a utility tractor in that ~75hp range?

As far as rocks go it is certainly not rock-free like you find in Iowa or the Champlain Valley, but as far as New England soils go it's fairly workable and forgiving. When I drive through the NH Lakes Region for example--OUCH! I can't imagine how difficult it is to work with those soils.

 

[Jack Yuan]

Thanks for your reply. As far as hiring it out.... that was naturally the first thing I looked into but the cost to do anything more than 1-2 acres quickly get astronomical. I got quotes from two contractors. One runs a large Fecon head on a skid steer, charges a variable cost of what should come out to ~$1,800/day and the other operates a larger dedicated-mulcher machine but charges a flat $3,000/day. Both can do 0.5-1.5 acres/day depending on conditions. If it was 2-3 day job that would certainly be the way to go. But my property will be ongoing and if I hired everything out I'd be looking at $100K+ bill over the next couple of years. Additionally, much of the fun and reward is doing it yourself and then sitting back and looking at the end result.

I also looked at renting a skid-steer mulcher for a week or two (the rental place in my part of Vermont charges $3,800/wk for 40 machine hours for a high-flow machine with a muching head). However, I don't want to deal with a rental skid steer and the inevitable hydraulic problems on a machine that's not my own and I like the flexibility of owning the mulcher myself--I just don't like that $23K price tag for the entry-level PTO unit (if I can avoid it).

What are the advantages of skid-steer mulchers over a PTO-driven one on a utility tractor in that ~75hp range?

As far as rocks go it is certainly not rock-free like you find in Iowa or the Champlain Valley, but as far as New England soils go it's fairly workable and forgiving. When I drive through the NH Lakes Region for example--OUCH! I can't imagine how difficult it is to work with those soils.

Hi,

I m curious how much the price will change your mind from "rent" into "buy" ?

These forest mulcher is much more bigger than we thought, I can feel how big they are when I stand next to them. It's expensive to rent them, $1800 or $3000 per day, and the contractor cann't promise you how much job will be done every day, sounds tricky. But it's even more expensive to buy one, $22K is big money.

 

[oosik]

Welcome to TBN and the forum. I wonder - are you planning on moving onto your acreage, building a home and living there. If so... then I would consider a long term approach to property maintenance.

Didn't the logger make slash pile around the property. OR - did he just leave it all lying about. I had my land ( 80 A ) selectively logged fifteen years ago. I have a few slash pile around the property. Rather than burn or chip - they remain as habitat for the forrest creatures.

Stumps - I guess I could have had them ground down. But now - some 15 years later - almost 100% are gone due to rotting away. Any that would have been in my immediate yard could have been removed immediately. Selective logging - no trees removed from my immediate yard.

Pictures of what you are faced with would certainly help.

 

[Maplechuck]

Hi,

I m curious how much the price will change your mind from "rent" into "buy" ?

These forest mulcher is much more bigger than we thought, I can feel how big they are when I stand next to them. It's expensive to rent them, $1800 or $3000 per day, and the contractor cann't promise you how much job will be done every day, sounds tricky. But it's even more expensive to buy one, $22K is big money.

I'm only looking at buying a PTO mulcher. It would be a "lighter duty" mulcher and I'd have to be very careful with it, take things slowly. From a sheer power standpoint I reckon with 64hp coming out my PTO I wouldn't be terribly underpowered compared to a hydraulically-driven skid-steer unit. I'm thinking if I'm very careful it could work.

 

[dieselscout80]

Can your tractor go at a slow enough speed while operating at the RPMs required to have 540 RPM at the PTO to avoid constant clutching to feed the material in slowly?

 

[Maplechuck]

Welcome to TBN and the forum. I wonder - are you planning on moving onto your acreage, building a home and living there. If so... then I would consider a long term approach to property maintenance.

Didn't the logger make slash pile around the property. OR - did he just leave it all lying about. I had my land ( 80 A ) selectively logged fifteen years ago. I have a few slash pile around the property. Rather than burn or chip - they remain as habitat for the forrest creatures.

Stumps - I guess I could have had them ground down. But now - some 15 years later - almost 100% are gone due to rotting away. Any that would have been in my immediate yard could have been removed immediately. Selective logging - no trees removed from my immediate yard.

Pictures of what you are faced with would certainly help.

Thanks for the reply. I meant to add some pics (they were on my phone). The pics below show the maine clear cut (about 12 acres) that was a red pine plantation. It was cut around 2017; the stumps aren’t starting to rot yet, but they seam a big looser, drier and more forgiving than if they were 1 year old or less. There are a couple other clear cuts (native red spruce/balsam fir, rather than plantation pine) that Im also thinking of slowly improving and keeping open (say another 15-20 acres in total over the next 5-7 years). The hardwoods (sugar maple dominated, ~120 acres) weren’t logged as heavily and I want to manage that part of the wood lot for sugaring.

There’s still about 2’ of snow in the field (finally starting to melt, as it’s south-facing) but I did get a few pics in December before I bought the property.

My understanding is the logger took a huge feller-bunch and then sent the trees through a delimber, and chipped the slash which he either left at the log landing or sold to the local biomass plant. So there’s little mess in the way of slash—nothing that can’t be taken care of over a long weekend with my root grapple. What’s left (besides the stumps) is mostly deadwood. Here in Vermont brambles and hardwood saplings sprout like spring wheat, so the recent undergrowth itself is much of the clean up job (and likely necessitates mulching). The stumps will be the main headache.

 

[Maplechuck]

Can your tractor go at a slow enough speed while operating at the RPMs required to have 540 RPM at the PTO to avoid constant clutching to feed the material in slowly?

So I’ve ordered the tractor (Kubota 7060 6x6 trans), and I have til the end of this week to decide if I want to add the ”Creeper” range.

It’s only a $1,000 and I reckon it would only ever be useful for mulching. I'm still trying to figure out if my PTO mulcher idea will actually work out, of its a pipe dream.

Would you suggest jumping on the Creeper range, or would the first gear? I'm buying a $50K tractor, so what's an extra $1k? Then again, that's how I went from from $34K to now looking at close to $50k LOL.

I WISH they made a hydrostatic in this size range. I seriously looked at the MX6000 HST and loved it; bare bones, no frills, very affordable. But ultimately I feared it wouldn't throw enough power out of the PTO and I'd push the loader and hydraulics over their limit. The pump on the 7060 is more than twice the size (in gpm) as the MX's and lift capacity is 60% better.

 

[oosik]

OK - those pictures help a whole lot. If you plan on keeping the areas open & clear that are shown in the picture then use these implements. A good heavy duty PTO driven rotary cutter and a PTO stump grinder. Both will work easily behind your new Kubota. Plan on clearing areas that are now forested - add a chain saw and PTO driven chipper. Sure - it's not as fast as a hydromulcher but not anywhere near as expensive either.

BTW - very nice looking acreage.

 

[Hay Dude]

Keep in mind a PTO mulcher on a tracked unit is hydraulically powered. It will "bypass" hydraulic fluid through a relief valve when it encounters more than it can handle, greatly reducing shock loads. Also, a tracked skiddy with a mulcher can raise up 8' and mulch DOWN on stubborn and tall stuff. Also gets excellent traction and is maneuverable-turns on a dime. These features are greatly superior to a tractor 3 point mount and cannot be overemphasized. (I had considered a Brown Tree Cutter, but decided against it)
A rear tractor mounted mulcher is PTO driven (I guess there are pump versions available, but I'm assuming you are looking at PTO). Even though it will likely have a slip clutch, it will place tremendous shock loads on your PTO when you hit an "immovable object" or too thick a tree and wear your PTO out faster than say, field mowing. That's an expensive repair. Also, you are very limited in how much you can raise a 3 point mounted brush mower.
I just did 50 hours/20 acres this past week in a tracked skiddy with a mulcher and the shock loads were such that the mulched hydraulic motor was bypassing often, then recovering.
The raising of the loader feature was invaluable. It would have taken me twice as long without being able to raise the mulcher.
Your best bet is a tracked mulcher for the tough stuff, then use your tractor with an extra heavy duty bush hog to clean up and pulverize the left over shards of wood and cleaning up between trees.
Thats what I have done and it works out great. Cutting down trees one-2 at a time and chipping them is a long drawn out back breaking process compared to pushing them over and grinding them up while laying on the ground. The mulcher will easily grind up a 8" stump almost as good as a stump grinder. Good enough for woodlands, maybe not quite perfect enough for a front yard.
BTW, I rented a like new CAT hi flow tracked skiddy with mulcher for $2300 for 50 hours/7 days.

 

[oosik]

Be very careful about adding the "Creep function". My Op Manual for my M6040 has VERY limiting uses for the creeper. Scan of the page directly out of my OP manual. I would imagine there is not much difference between your M7060 and my M6040. Check you new Op Manual before you decide.

 

[Hay Dude]

Creep not meant to pull heavy loads, just creep lightly loaded

 

[ericm979]

So I’ve ordered the tractor (Kubota 7060 6x6 trans), and I have til the end of this week to decide if I want to add the ”Creeper” range.

It’s only a $1,000 and I reckon it would only ever be useful for mulching. I'm still trying to figure out if my PTO mulcher idea will actually work out, of its a pipe dream.

Would you suggest jumping on the Creeper range, or would the first gear? I'm buying a $50K tractor, so what's an extra $1k? Then again, that's how I went from from $34K to now looking at close to $50k LOL.

I WISH they made a hydrostatic in this size range. I seriously looked at the MX6000 HST and loved it; bare bones, no frills, very affordable. But ultimately I feared it wouldn't throw enough power out of the PTO and I'd push the loader and hydraulics over their limit. The pump on the 7060 is more than twice the size (in gpm) as the MX's and lift capacity is 60% better.

If you look at Baumalight's specs for their mulcher, a tractor with creeper gear is rated to mulch larger material than one without. But an HST is rated for even larger. It could be that a 6060 HST would mulch larger material than a 7060, even with creeper.

What would you be using that much hydraulic flow for? Any mulcher you get would be PTO driven.

 

[Maplechuck]

If you look at Baumalight's specs for their mulcher, a tractor with creeper gear is rated to mulch larger material than one without. But an HST is rated for even larger. It could be that a 6060 HST would mulch larger material than a 7060, even with creeper.

What would you be using that much hydraulic flow for? Any mulcher you get would be PTO driven.

That doesn't make any sense. Hydrostatic transmission put out incredibly less power to the PTO than gear-drive or CVT.

I'm only looking at PTO driven mulchers. I would love a hydrostatic--I prefer hydrostatic--I'm just more than a bit skeptical I could get enough power needed for my application and property. The biggest hydrostatic would be the L60/MX6000 or JD 4066. All are quite a bit smaller than the 7060.

As far as the flow I figure it's good to have. The larger pump comes with the 6x6 tranny on the 7060. It only adds around $1,800 in cost compared to the base 4x4 transmission for the 7060. I'd like to eventually get a hydro loader-mounted auger which I figure will benefit from a larger pump. I'm also planning on doing a lot of grapple work so I figured it'd be nice to have a bit more flow so I'm not overworking anything there.

The pump on the 7060 is 17 gpm plus a 6 gpm steering pump. The MX series uses a 10 gpm pump that serves both steering and loader/implements.

 

[ericm979]

That doesn't make any sense. Hydrostatic transmission put out incredibly less power to the PTO than gear-drive or CVT.

I think the issue here is how slowly the tractor can move, as that's how you control feed rate. That would be more important than an extra 10hp. Maybe you could try asking Baumalight what their reasoning is.

The HST's PTO power is not "incredibly" less than gear driven. The MX6600 has a net engine HP of 59.5 and PTO HP of 51.7 or 13% loss. The Gear drive MX5400 is 53 engine net and 46.5 at the PTO or 12%. That's closer than I have seen with other models, but the HST version is usually usually a few HP down at the PTO vs the gear version.

Kubota lists the MX series as having separate steering and system hydraulics. Pretty much everyone does that now. I think it's cheaper and more reliable than a priority valve. If you're going to be running a log splitter or a hydraulic motor in an implement then the added flow might be useful (though a splitter with a dedicated motor and pump doesn't cost that much more than a 3pt splitter and would not be worth spending a lot extra for the tractor). But for most uses (operating cylinders in grapples or similar) 10 gpm is plenty.

 

[Maplechuck]

I think the issue here is how slowly the tractor can move, as that's how you control feed rate. That would be more important than an extra 10hp. Maybe you could try asking Baumalight what their reasoning is.

The HST's PTO power is not "incredibly" less than gear driven. The MX6600 has a net engine HP of 59.5 and PTO HP of 51.7 or 13% loss. The Gear drive MX5400 is 53 engine net and 46.5 at the PTO or 12%. That's closer than I have seen with other models, but the HST version is usually usually a few HP down at the PTO vs the gear version.

Kubota lists the MX series as having separate steering and system hydraulics. Pretty much everyone does that now. I think it's cheaper and more reliable than a priority valve. If you're going to be running a log splitter or a hydraulic motor in an implement then the added flow might be useful (though a splitter with a dedicated motor and pump doesn't cost that much more than a 3pt splitter and would not be worth spending a lot extra for the tractor). But for most uses (operating cylinders in grapples or similar) 10 gpm is plenty.

From my understanding is it's not the rated power, it's the effective, working power. I've been told it's much harder to get up to the rated PTO horsepower on a hydro vs gear-drive.

I WISH a hydro was an option for me. I'm looking at a ~$8k cost difference between an MX6000 and M7060 (all else equal), and then attachments and parts for the 7060 are of course beefier and more expensive too. Fuel burn is higher, etc. And ultimately from an operator's-perspective I do prefer hydro.

I just don't think I can get away with a compact tractor like the MX6000. Part of this is the old-adage that EVERYONE tells you along the lines of "When buying you're first tractor, choose the model larger than the one you picked out. You won't regret it." That in essence is why I ended up upgrading from the MX to the 7060.

And as far as mulching is concerned, mulching with less than 60 PTO hp looks to be a fool's errand. It has much less to do with hydrostatic and more the fact you can't get away with mulching on a 60hp (or smaller) compact tractor.

 

[Bullwinkle123]

And the typical $3-5k stump grinders like this don't fit the bill? Is that because yours isn't an HST, or because the grinder is not heavy duty enough?
GR15 Series Stump Grinder | Land Pride

I could see clearing those stumps, somewhat slowly, with such a tool. I'm new enough to tractors that I have no idea what creep functions are.

The stumps from my own current use tree cuts (it's a vermont thing, for the rest of you), are a big problem for me too, but I can't justify a stump grinder for my situation.

 

[Maplechuck]

And the typical $3-5k stump grinders like this don't fit the bill? Is that because yours isn't an HST, or because the grinder is not heavy duty enough?
GR15 Series Stump Grinder | Land Pride

I could see clearing those stumps, somewhat slowly, with such a tool. I'm new enough to tractors that I have no idea what creep functions are.

The stumps from my own current use tree cuts (it's a vermont thing, for the rest of you), are a big problem for me too, but I can't justify a stump grinder for my situation.

So I'm ordering the 7060 after much debate whether I wanted a hydrostatic (large) compact tractor like the MX600.

Then I contacted my dealer the other day to see if I can change; well the MX6000 on their lot I was looking at has sold and those those are backordered to July AND Kubota just jacked up the price of their MX line by $2K (probably because there's so much demand for them). The value proposition is a bit eroded when compared to either larger utility tractors like the 7060 or the more luxurious (but similarly sized) Grand L60, in my opinion at least. For me the MX ship has sailed and I've double-downed on the larger M7060.

"Creeper" is essentially a super-low gear range that you can get as an add-on. It allows you to really crawl. I can't imagine a reason for hydrostatics to have such an option.

As far as Current Use my property is actually NOT in current use so I want to take advantage of the flexibility while I have as I do want to put the property back in the program. Don't want to be paying $6K in property taxes just for a wood lot for more than 1 or 2 years (I'd be looking at about 1/10th that amount in Current Use).

Back to stumps... Yes, I've been looking at those PTO stump grinders too. But it just looks too tedious and time-consuming in my opinion. That's really how I got to the idea of a PTO mulcher. If you're tractor is large enough I figured it's basically a 5' wide stump grinder. I think this may be wishful thinking though so I've soured on the idea and I think I'll just hire it out, only about 5-6 of the acres.

For reference here's the PTO Mulcher I've been considering. My local John Deere dealer sells the "Seppi Miniforst 150" for just under $22k and should fit a 7060 nicely. MINIFORST small forestry mulcher 60-100 HP | SEPPI M.

Anyway, since the pine trees were all planted in a plantation (more or less in straight rows) I figure I should be able to drive through and brush hog in between the rows of stumps (once i clean up some of the deadwood and other debris). I'll plan on doing this in the area i'm not getting mulched for this summer and see how that works. At the very least it should make hiring out mulching easier (and cheaper) next summer (2022) if I decide to go that route again. But perhaps it will work well enough and I can just continue keeping it open once a year until the stops rot out.

 

[Bullwinkle123]

So I'm ordering the 7060 after much debate whether I wanted a hydrostatic (large) compact tractor like the MX600.

Then I contacted my dealer the other day to see if I can change; well the MX6000 on their lot I was looking at has sold and those those are backordered to July AND Kubota just jacked up the price of their MX line by $2K (probably because there's so much demand for them). The value proposition is a bit eroded when compared to either larger utility tractors like the 7060 or the more luxurious (but similarly sized) Grand L60, in my opinion at least. For me the MX ship has sailed and I've double-downed on the larger M7060.

Yeah, dealers have were sold out for much of last year. I notice the WoodMaxx 8H chipper I was looking at last year appears to be 10% more this year.

"Creeper" is essentially a super-low gear range that you can get as an add-on. It allows you to really crawl. I can't imagine a reason for hydrostatics to have such an option.

As far as Current Use my property is actually NOT in current use so I want to take advantage of the flexibility while I have as I do want to put the property back in the program. Don't want to be paying $6K in property taxes just for a wood lot for more than 1 or 2 years (I'd be looking at about 1/10th that amount in Current Use).

Back to stumps... Yes, I've been looking at those PTO stump grinders too. But it just looks too tedious and time-consuming in my opinion. That's really how I got to the idea of a PTO mulcher. If you're tractor is large enough I figured it's basically a 5' wide stump grinder. I think this may be wishful thinking though so I've soured on the idea and I think I'll just hire it out, only about 5-6 of the acres.

For reference here's the PTO Mulcher I've been considering. My local John Deere dealer sells the "Seppi Miniforst 150" for just under $22k and should fit a 7060 nicely. MINIFORST small forestry mulcher 60-100 HP | SEPPI M.

As tractor grinder assists go that does look like a cadillac compared to the 5k celica. I have seen some interesting skidsteer attachments like that, only more robust, that were monsters at eating whatever was put in front of them.

Anyway, since the pine trees were all planted in a plantation (more or less in straight rows) I figure I should be able to drive through and brush hog in between the rows of stumps (once i clean up some of the deadwood and other debris). I'll plan on doing this in the area i'm not getting mulched for this summer and see how that works. At the very least it should make hiring out mulching easier (and cheaper) next summer (2022) if I decide to go that route again. But perhaps it will work well enough and I can just continue keeping it open once a year until the stops rot out.

Well, you could take the long view on the $22K, if you have the money, which is that you may someday sell it for a decent amount, in which case it's just a long term rental with a hefty deposit. I take that view for my whole setup, though perhaps I will be sorely disappointed if/when I must sell it. And of course there are those tales of things purchased being sold for more than the purchase price because of inflation on equipment. Dunno if there's much factual truth to it. WoodMaxx 8H sure makes it seem that way this year.

Gratz on your vermont place, looks beautiful.