PTO Mulcher Considerations and Reviews

[Hay Dude]

Keep in mind a PTO mulcher on a tracked unit is hydraulically powered. It will "bypass" hydraulic fluid through a relief valve when it encounters more than it can handle, greatly reducing shock loads. Also, a tracked skiddy with a mulcher can raise up 8' and mulch DOWN on stubborn and tall stuff. Also gets excellent traction and is maneuverable-turns on a dime. These features are greatly superior to a tractor 3 point mount and cannot be overemphasized. (I had considered a Brown Tree Cutter, but decided against it)
A rear tractor mounted mulcher is PTO driven (I guess there are pump versions available, but I'm assuming you are looking at PTO). Even though it will likely have a slip clutch, it will place tremendous shock loads on your PTO when you hit an "immovable object" or too thick a tree and wear your PTO out faster than say, field mowing. That's an expensive repair. Also, you are very limited in how much you can raise a 3 point mounted brush mower.
I just did 50 hours/20 acres this past week in a tracked skiddy with a mulcher and the shock loads were such that the mulched hydraulic motor was bypassing often, then recovering.
The raising of the loader feature was invaluable. It would have taken me twice as long without being able to raise the mulcher.
Your best bet is a tracked mulcher for the tough stuff, then use your tractor with an extra heavy duty bush hog to clean up and pulverize the left over shards of wood and cleaning up between trees.
Thats what I have done and it works out great. Cutting down trees one-2 at a time and chipping them is a long drawn out back breaking process compared to pushing them over and grinding them up while laying on the ground. The mulcher will easily grind up a 8" stump almost as good as a stump grinder. Good enough for woodlands, maybe not quite perfect enough for a front yard.
BTW, I rented a like new CAT hi flow tracked skiddy with mulcher for $2300 for 50 hours/7 days.

 

[oosik]

Be very careful about adding the "Creep function". My Op Manual for my M6040 has VERY limiting uses for the creeper. Scan of the page directly out of my OP manual. I would imagine there is not much difference between your M7060 and my M6040. Check you new Op Manual before you decide.

 

[Hay Dude]

Creep not meant to pull heavy loads, just creep lightly loaded

 

[ericm979]

So I’ve ordered the tractor (Kubota 7060 6x6 trans), and I have til the end of this week to decide if I want to add the ”Creeper” range.

It’s only a $1,000 and I reckon it would only ever be useful for mulching. I'm still trying to figure out if my PTO mulcher idea will actually work out, of its a pipe dream.

Would you suggest jumping on the Creeper range, or would the first gear? I'm buying a $50K tractor, so what's an extra $1k? Then again, that's how I went from from $34K to now looking at close to $50k LOL.

I WISH they made a hydrostatic in this size range. I seriously looked at the MX6000 HST and loved it; bare bones, no frills, very affordable. But ultimately I feared it wouldn't throw enough power out of the PTO and I'd push the loader and hydraulics over their limit. The pump on the 7060 is more than twice the size (in gpm) as the MX's and lift capacity is 60% better.

If you look at Baumalight's specs for their mulcher, a tractor with creeper gear is rated to mulch larger material than one without. But an HST is rated for even larger. It could be that a 6060 HST would mulch larger material than a 7060, even with creeper.

What would you be using that much hydraulic flow for? Any mulcher you get would be PTO driven.

 

[Maplechuck]

If you look at Baumalight's specs for their mulcher, a tractor with creeper gear is rated to mulch larger material than one without. But an HST is rated for even larger. It could be that a 6060 HST would mulch larger material than a 7060, even with creeper.

What would you be using that much hydraulic flow for? Any mulcher you get would be PTO driven.

That doesn't make any sense. Hydrostatic transmission put out incredibly less power to the PTO than gear-drive or CVT.

I'm only looking at PTO driven mulchers. I would love a hydrostatic--I prefer hydrostatic--I'm just more than a bit skeptical I could get enough power needed for my application and property. The biggest hydrostatic would be the L60/MX6000 or JD 4066. All are quite a bit smaller than the 7060.

As far as the flow I figure it's good to have. The larger pump comes with the 6x6 tranny on the 7060. It only adds around $1,800 in cost compared to the base 4x4 transmission for the 7060. I'd like to eventually get a hydro loader-mounted auger which I figure will benefit from a larger pump. I'm also planning on doing a lot of grapple work so I figured it'd be nice to have a bit more flow so I'm not overworking anything there.

The pump on the 7060 is 17 gpm plus a 6 gpm steering pump. The MX series uses a 10 gpm pump that serves both steering and loader/implements.

 

[ericm979]

That doesn't make any sense. Hydrostatic transmission put out incredibly less power to the PTO than gear-drive or CVT.

I think the issue here is how slowly the tractor can move, as that's how you control feed rate. That would be more important than an extra 10hp. Maybe you could try asking Baumalight what their reasoning is.

The HST's PTO power is not "incredibly" less than gear driven. The MX6600 has a net engine HP of 59.5 and PTO HP of 51.7 or 13% loss. The Gear drive MX5400 is 53 engine net and 46.5 at the PTO or 12%. That's closer than I have seen with other models, but the HST version is usually usually a few HP down at the PTO vs the gear version.

Kubota lists the MX series as having separate steering and system hydraulics. Pretty much everyone does that now. I think it's cheaper and more reliable than a priority valve. If you're going to be running a log splitter or a hydraulic motor in an implement then the added flow might be useful (though a splitter with a dedicated motor and pump doesn't cost that much more than a 3pt splitter and would not be worth spending a lot extra for the tractor). But for most uses (operating cylinders in grapples or similar) 10 gpm is plenty.

 

[Maplechuck]

I think the issue here is how slowly the tractor can move, as that's how you control feed rate. That would be more important than an extra 10hp. Maybe you could try asking Baumalight what their reasoning is.

The HST's PTO power is not "incredibly" less than gear driven. The MX6600 has a net engine HP of 59.5 and PTO HP of 51.7 or 13% loss. The Gear drive MX5400 is 53 engine net and 46.5 at the PTO or 12%. That's closer than I have seen with other models, but the HST version is usually usually a few HP down at the PTO vs the gear version.

Kubota lists the MX series as having separate steering and system hydraulics. Pretty much everyone does that now. I think it's cheaper and more reliable than a priority valve. If you're going to be running a log splitter or a hydraulic motor in an implement then the added flow might be useful (though a splitter with a dedicated motor and pump doesn't cost that much more than a 3pt splitter and would not be worth spending a lot extra for the tractor). But for most uses (operating cylinders in grapples or similar) 10 gpm is plenty.

From my understanding is it's not the rated power, it's the effective, working power. I've been told it's much harder to get up to the rated PTO horsepower on a hydro vs gear-drive.

I WISH a hydro was an option for me. I'm looking at a ~$8k cost difference between an MX6000 and M7060 (all else equal), and then attachments and parts for the 7060 are of course beefier and more expensive too. Fuel burn is higher, etc. And ultimately from an operator's-perspective I do prefer hydro.

I just don't think I can get away with a compact tractor like the MX6000. Part of this is the old-adage that EVERYONE tells you along the lines of "When buying you're first tractor, choose the model larger than the one you picked out. You won't regret it." That in essence is why I ended up upgrading from the MX to the 7060.

And as far as mulching is concerned, mulching with less than 60 PTO hp looks to be a fool's errand. It has much less to do with hydrostatic and more the fact you can't get away with mulching on a 60hp (or smaller) compact tractor.

 

[Bullwinkle123]

And the typical $3-5k stump grinders like this don't fit the bill? Is that because yours isn't an HST, or because the grinder is not heavy duty enough?
GR15 Series Stump Grinder | Land Pride

I could see clearing those stumps, somewhat slowly, with such a tool. I'm new enough to tractors that I have no idea what creep functions are.

The stumps from my own current use tree cuts (it's a vermont thing, for the rest of you), are a big problem for me too, but I can't justify a stump grinder for my situation.

 

[Maplechuck]

And the typical $3-5k stump grinders like this don't fit the bill? Is that because yours isn't an HST, or because the grinder is not heavy duty enough?
GR15 Series Stump Grinder | Land Pride

I could see clearing those stumps, somewhat slowly, with such a tool. I'm new enough to tractors that I have no idea what creep functions are.

The stumps from my own current use tree cuts (it's a vermont thing, for the rest of you), are a big problem for me too, but I can't justify a stump grinder for my situation.

So I'm ordering the 7060 after much debate whether I wanted a hydrostatic (large) compact tractor like the MX600.

Then I contacted my dealer the other day to see if I can change; well the MX6000 on their lot I was looking at has sold and those those are backordered to July AND Kubota just jacked up the price of their MX line by $2K (probably because there's so much demand for them). The value proposition is a bit eroded when compared to either larger utility tractors like the 7060 or the more luxurious (but similarly sized) Grand L60, in my opinion at least. For me the MX ship has sailed and I've double-downed on the larger M7060.

"Creeper" is essentially a super-low gear range that you can get as an add-on. It allows you to really crawl. I can't imagine a reason for hydrostatics to have such an option.

As far as Current Use my property is actually NOT in current use so I want to take advantage of the flexibility while I have as I do want to put the property back in the program. Don't want to be paying $6K in property taxes just for a wood lot for more than 1 or 2 years (I'd be looking at about 1/10th that amount in Current Use).

Back to stumps... Yes, I've been looking at those PTO stump grinders too. But it just looks too tedious and time-consuming in my opinion. That's really how I got to the idea of a PTO mulcher. If you're tractor is large enough I figured it's basically a 5' wide stump grinder. I think this may be wishful thinking though so I've soured on the idea and I think I'll just hire it out, only about 5-6 of the acres.

For reference here's the PTO Mulcher I've been considering. My local John Deere dealer sells the "Seppi Miniforst 150" for just under $22k and should fit a 7060 nicely. MINIFORST small forestry mulcher 60-100 HP | SEPPI M.

Anyway, since the pine trees were all planted in a plantation (more or less in straight rows) I figure I should be able to drive through and brush hog in between the rows of stumps (once i clean up some of the deadwood and other debris). I'll plan on doing this in the area i'm not getting mulched for this summer and see how that works. At the very least it should make hiring out mulching easier (and cheaper) next summer (2022) if I decide to go that route again. But perhaps it will work well enough and I can just continue keeping it open once a year until the stops rot out.

 

[Bullwinkle123]

So I'm ordering the 7060 after much debate whether I wanted a hydrostatic (large) compact tractor like the MX600.

Then I contacted my dealer the other day to see if I can change; well the MX6000 on their lot I was looking at has sold and those those are backordered to July AND Kubota just jacked up the price of their MX line by $2K (probably because there's so much demand for them). The value proposition is a bit eroded when compared to either larger utility tractors like the 7060 or the more luxurious (but similarly sized) Grand L60, in my opinion at least. For me the MX ship has sailed and I've double-downed on the larger M7060.

Yeah, dealers have were sold out for much of last year. I notice the WoodMaxx 8H chipper I was looking at last year appears to be 10% more this year.

"Creeper" is essentially a super-low gear range that you can get as an add-on. It allows you to really crawl. I can't imagine a reason for hydrostatics to have such an option.

As far as Current Use my property is actually NOT in current use so I want to take advantage of the flexibility while I have as I do want to put the property back in the program. Don't want to be paying $6K in property taxes just for a wood lot for more than 1 or 2 years (I'd be looking at about 1/10th that amount in Current Use).

Back to stumps... Yes, I've been looking at those PTO stump grinders too. But it just looks too tedious and time-consuming in my opinion. That's really how I got to the idea of a PTO mulcher. If you're tractor is large enough I figured it's basically a 5' wide stump grinder. I think this may be wishful thinking though so I've soured on the idea and I think I'll just hire it out, only about 5-6 of the acres.

For reference here's the PTO Mulcher I've been considering. My local John Deere dealer sells the "Seppi Miniforst 150" for just under $22k and should fit a 7060 nicely. MINIFORST small forestry mulcher 60-100 HP | SEPPI M.

As tractor grinder assists go that does look like a cadillac compared to the 5k celica. I have seen some interesting skidsteer attachments like that, only more robust, that were monsters at eating whatever was put in front of them.

Anyway, since the pine trees were all planted in a plantation (more or less in straight rows) I figure I should be able to drive through and brush hog in between the rows of stumps (once i clean up some of the deadwood and other debris). I'll plan on doing this in the area i'm not getting mulched for this summer and see how that works. At the very least it should make hiring out mulching easier (and cheaper) next summer (2022) if I decide to go that route again. But perhaps it will work well enough and I can just continue keeping it open once a year until the stops rot out.

Well, you could take the long view on the $22K, if you have the money, which is that you may someday sell it for a decent amount, in which case it's just a long term rental with a hefty deposit. I take that view for my whole setup, though perhaps I will be sorely disappointed if/when I must sell it. And of course there are those tales of things purchased being sold for more than the purchase price because of inflation on equipment. Dunno if there's much factual truth to it. WoodMaxx 8H sure makes it seem that way this year.

Gratz on your vermont place, looks beautiful.