Newbie terror, need experienced advice

   / Newbie terror, need experienced advice #61  
My CK 30 is only supposed to lift only 300 KG. I had to replace my front tyres with heavier ply ones as they were like soggy balloons when carrying stuff in the bucket. It was very unstable.
I actually rolled the tyres off the rims turning a couple of times prior to changing them.

(Yes, in Australia we spell tyres different)
 
   / Newbie terror, need experienced advice #62  
My CK 30 is only supposed to lift only 300 KG. I had to replace my front tyres with heavier ply ones as they were like soggy balloons when carrying stuff in the bucket. It was very unstable.
I actually rolled the tyres off the rims turning a couple of times prior to changing them.

(Yes, in Australia we spell tyres different)

That's because it is too hard to type ǝɹᴉʇ.

:)

Bruce
 
   / Newbie terror, need experienced advice #63  
That's because it is too hard to type ǝɹᴉʇ.

:)

Bruce

That's the craziest thing I've seen since I learned the difference between a French Kiss and an Australian Kiss :p
 
   / Newbie terror, need experienced advice #65  
I've had several category 9.5 - 10 pucker factor moments working with machinery.

When I was in high school, I had a job as an assistant mechanic for a pea harvest crew. One of my responsibilities was to make sure the combines knew where they were going, and to make sure nothing is wrong with the viners as they crawl though the fields. I worked the night crew, and it was the best job a 17yr old could have. One night in the field we dubbed the "Heck (with two 'L's instead of 'ck') Field" due to how steep the field was. The pea combines need to be 'level' in order to harvest properly. They do this automatically with hydraulics on each corner of the combine. They are slow to calibrate and automatically adjust. So at the top of the field, if an operator who has a full hopper, decides to turn around too quickly, not giving the levelers time to adjust, will tip over. Guess what happened almost EVERY NIGHT in that field?
Another thing that happened in the Heck Field was when I was driving my truck along the line of combines while they were going down the steep grade. I noticed the single white light (reverse light) on the back of one of the combines was turned on. Also, the backup beeper was beeping. But the combine was moving downhill, in forward. I suddenly realized what was happening and starting talking to the operator on the CB radio. The combines are hydrostatically driven with a lever, and the operator was scared so put the combine in REVERSE to maintain speed.... All Heck (and motors) broke loose as the combine narrowly avoided the machine in front of him and ran downhill uncontrolled without any hydraulic power! That was a long night.

Another eventful night for that harvest crew was in another (flatter) field out in the middle of nowhere, during a late night thunderstorm. When the lightning started getting close, I radioed to all the combines to stop, pick up their headers, shutoff their machines, and stay inside. The storm should pass rather quickly. One at a time, the bright lights of every combine in the field went dark. Except for the one, way over there, whom I forgot that I sent over there to open a new 'brake' in the field. He was so far away, he was out of radio range or had his music radio turned up so loud he didnt hear me. Either way, as I floored my truck in his direction, yelling at him on the radio to shutdown, I got about half way to him when BOOM!!.... I've never seen a lightning strike so close to me. The operator was ok, a bit shaken, and EMS was called to look him over, but the combine was not ok. It got loaded on a lowboy and taken to our shop where the mechanics totaled it as everything was fried.

That was the good ol days of my youth. More recent adventures where I suck the tractor seat up include getting that tippy feeling when side hilling, Tipping forward with too much in the FEL (or not enough on the back), tipping back while driving uphill and have too much on the back (and not enough in the front). Sliding sideways down the driveway while plowing snow. Watching the front axles sink into DEEP mud where you were not expecting mud. the side of the hill under the road fall away as you pass over it. The wheel start wobbling while doing a road move because you forgot to check the lug nut torque. Or coming to a complete stop while brush hogging your neighbors deep pasture grass because there is a stump he neglected to tell you about.

But living life in fear of death, to me, does not sound much like living. Take risks, just not unnecessary ones.
 
   / Newbie terror, need experienced advice #66  
One of the scariest things that happened to me in 35-40 years of operating heavy equip. was when the new L series tractors came out and I was working on a job in Co. doing overburden removal to develop an old under ground gold mine into an open pit operation. In the middle of a shift one day the Cat. mechanics had just finished assembling a brand new D-9L and brought it out onto the flat area where I was working. The foreman waved me over and said "Here's your new machine stay off the steep slopes until you get the feel for it". I was young but had close to 20 years operating so was excited. The Cat guys walked me around the machine and showed me the basics and told me that it would feel a lot different than the H series that we had been running. I got up in the seat and it seemed like I was 40' in the air but the visibility was incredible. I got comfortable real quick in the first ergonomic cab I'd ever been in and, as was customary on flat ground, I put it in 2nd gear and started moving forward keeping it slow with the decelerator. Just as I thought I was doing good I ran over a small rock hump on the mine floor with one track. I would have sworn that the machine was going to tip over because of the high seat. I nearly made a mess in that brand new seat. On these tractors the operators station is high but the engine and running gear are down between the tracks and they are very stable but it sure didn't feel like it. After about 1/2 hour it started to feel natural and by the end of the shift I was in love.But boy that first little bump had me grabbing leather with my cheeks.
 
   / Newbie terror, need experienced advice #67  
So the one thing to keep in mind is that even with "appropriate ballast" (e.g. when the tractor is straight on level ground, and the tractor is incapable of lifting the load) both the terrain and the tractor's maneuvering (or loader position) can change that pretty easily.

Turning the steering wheel can and will change how effective the ballast is ...especially when in motion (have had the wheel firmly on the ground, turned a corner and had a rear wheel lift off the ground before).

The other thing to consider with using implements that extend farther out the back is that (depending on the tractor's wheelbase) it's possible to turn the tractor into a bit of a bucking bronco as the load on the front and the ballast on the back can make the fulcrum point start shifting between the two axles (particularly if perturbed by driving over a bump).

So ultimately the most important piece of safety equipment a person can use is that thing between their ears as it's not possible (or practical) to cover all potentially dangerous situations with pre-existing rules. Of course even if it was possible to write them all down, odds are few would bother reading them given how few people seem to read the instructions/operators manuals (even if/when they are actually understandable and well written). :confused3:

Thankfully *most* things with tractors come back to concepts like levers, geometry, and basic physics that are pretty common in every day life (but may look different because of the equipment involved).
 
   / Newbie terror, need experienced advice #68  
One of the scariest things that happened to me in 35-40 years of operating heavy equip. was when the new L series tractors came out and I was working on a job in Co. doing overburden removal to develop an old under ground gold mine into an open pit operation. In the middle of a shift one day the Cat. mechanics had just finished assembling a brand new D-9L and brought it out onto the flat area where I was working. The foreman waved me over and said "Here's your new machine stay off the steep slopes until you get the feel for it". I was young but had close to 20 years operating so was excited. The Cat guys walked me around the machine and showed me the basics and told me that it would feel a lot different than the H series that we had been running. I got up in the seat and it seemed like I was 40' in the air but the visibility was incredible. I got comfortable real quick in the first ergonomic cab I'd ever been in and, as was customary on flat ground, I put it in 2nd gear and started moving forward keeping it slow with the decelerator. Just as I thought I was doing good I ran over a small rock hump on the mine floor with one track. I would have sworn that the machine was going to tip over because of the high seat. I nearly made a mess in that brand new seat. On these tractors the operators station is high but the engine and running gear are down between the tracks and they are very stable but it sure didn't feel like it. After about 1/2 hour it started to feel natural and by the end of the shift I was in love.But boy that first little bump had me grabbing leather with my cheeks.

Thanks for that great story, Jim. I have never operated anything close to that size and definitely enjoyed your insight.
 
   / Newbie terror, need experienced advice #69  
I've been on three wheels a few times in the last couple of days. On mostly level ground, so no real danger, but it still gets your attention when you're trying to dig out a bucket of dirt and one of rears comes up instead.
 
   / Newbie terror, need experienced advice #70  
OP - I'll echo the past posters and say that I think you are being reasonably cautious and right to be scared. Get some ballast on that machine asap. I typically use my brush cutter 'cause its heavy and sticks way out back. And its the most used implement I have.

In my middle years now and I'm much more timid with equipment. It takes a split second to get into a bad situation that can send you and a piece of heavy iron careening somewhere. I have more stupidity stories than I care to share.

Stay with TBN here and you'll learn a lot about your tractor, your attachments and how to do things the right way and the safe way.
 
   / Newbie terror, need experienced advice #71  
I'm trying to figure out how to incorporate ballast low, and under the deck of a TSC carry-all frame. In my mind it would be great to have a multi-function flat heavy deck (tool-carry box up by top-link mount, etc) somewhere in the 3.5 ft width and length size so it's manuverable.

A friend of mine manages commercial construction and says he has several hundred lbs of them long old window weights I can have, thinking that might work just laying them down but how to strongly support them underneath is challenging.

Might just have to take up some deck space towards the front of it and make a wood box to lay them in.

I'd love to find some big plates of steel, 1/2" or thicker and mount them to it, need to get lucky and find some heavy duty stuff and start drilling! The carry all frame seems like a nice start, and with some additional wood and steel shouldn't be a waste of $180. Says 1,000 lb capacity so if bolted up properly should handle 600-700 lbs back there which should suffice as a counterweight.
 
   / Newbie terror, need experienced advice #72  
   / Newbie terror, need experienced advice
  • Thread Starter
#73  
I'm shocked that it took this long for someone to make a comment like that! :laughing:
 
   / Newbie terror, need experienced advice #74  
I do not 100% understand the physics but the loaded tires do not help until they are actually starting to get picked up.

Think about a see-saw or teeter-totter (depending on where about you live). It has a fulcrum in the centre and the loads go on each end. On your tractor, as you increase the load on the FEL, the fulcrum point moves closer to the front wheels. The more weight you have behind the front wheels, the more force will be applied by the rear wheels on the ground, increasing the stability and the traction.

Loaded tyres will help by virtue of the fact that they increase the weight of the tractor behind the front wheels.

But .... you want the greater load of the system' to be on the rear wheels, as they are designed to take load (which the front axles are not) and the rears are the wheels that give you the traction and the braking (there are no brakes on the front wheels).

So... you want to increase the force the rears will apply to ground and the only way to do this once the tyres are loaded and if you have wheel-weights is to add some counterweight projecting out the back of the tractor, off the 3-point hitch. This can be an implement or a simple counterweight. The counterweight now moves the fulcrum point more onto the rear wheels, for which they are designed. People often refer to the counterweight as 'ballast'.
 
   / Newbie terror, need experienced advice #75  
There must be over 500 years of experience represented in this thread. Huge amount of valuable insight on lifting and moving loads safely.

Interesting to see the commonality of some of the guidance...keep it low...use 4WD...sufficient ballast...careful changing direction...travel direction on hills is important - lots of gold nuggets!

There is also risk from complacency after you are experienced.

When you become so comfortable, you end up taking shortcuts - like just going ahead with moving something from here to there...because it will take longer to go hook up rear ballast than just moving it this one time.

A recent TBN thread detailed a turnover while moving some manure - standard and routine, but an unexpected mound raised a front tire throwing off equilibrium - for a seasoned operator.

A safety factor is being present in the moment, aware of what is going on when operating...nothing to do with equipment.

Easy to mind wander or take shortcuts because something you're doing has become so routine or second nature you're not even consciously thinking about it.
 
   / Newbie terror, need experienced advice #76  
A safety factor is being present in the moment, aware of what is going on when operating...nothing to do with equipment.

Easy to mind wander or take shortcuts because something you're doing has become so routine or second nature you're not even consciously thinking about it.

Well said and a great reminder @BackRoad. Thank you for keeping us newbies pointed toward the safe use of these machines. The reminder to keep the presence of mind is a good one.

Started mowing a 15 acre meadow 2 years ago. There is a spot on the hilly meadow I call the "ski jump". Why? On first mowing in 10ft tall stuff, I had no idea I was coming up on it and I nearly rolled the machine. Big seat pucker. The next 3-4 times I mowed, I knew right where that spot was. The last time I mowed, I let my mind wander... was enjoying the day and ride on the machine. Well, all I will say is Big Seat Pucker again!

How often do we let ourselves think we got it all together only to get ourselves into big trouble. Keep reminding the newbies like me. All of the advice on FEL use is good solid advice. I am an engineer by training.. but putting the science to work in real time is not trivial. Thank you to all the 500 year club for their constant good advice. I read this forum daily...
 

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