Newbie terror, need experienced advice

[RichZ]

I find my brush hog is a good counterweight. Never lift something heavy without a counterweight.

 

[K5lwq]

I agree 100% with nybirdman....smaller rocks or a larger tractor! I have a small CUT with a bucket and I can tell you first hand, there are limits, and if your wheels are off the ground you have exceeded the limits by a lot!

I would agree he has exceeded the limits of his current configuration but in no way has he reached the full capacity of his tractor. That is set with the pressure relief valve on the loader valve.

To maximize lift capacity one must have enough rear ballast to keep the rear tires firmly planted on the ground.

 

[k0ua]

I find my brush hog is a good counterweight. Never lift something heavy without a counterweight.

The advantage of the bush hog is that they are long and stick out past the lift arms of the 3pt a good long distance. This gives extra leverage or "prying downward force".
The disadvantage of the bush hog is they stick way out there and in tight quarters and making turns, they bang into things. Example working up next to a building and you turn away sharply from that building, you need to be aware of the bush hog coming around and smacking into the building. The advantage of the bush hog or box blade as ballast, is that it is something you already own, and is a useful tool already on the tractor. And the advantage of a heavy ballast box is that it is tightly coupled to the tractor and you don't have to worry about it banging into something you didn't want to destroy.

 

[k0ua]

I would agree he has exceeded the limits of his current configuration but in no way has he reached the full capacity of his tractor. That is set with the pressure relief valve on the loader valve.

To maximize lift capacity one must have enough rear ballast to keep the rear tires firmly planted on the ground.

I agree with you, he is not exceeding his lift capacity of the loader, he just needs to have the proper ballast on the 3pt to operate the tractor safely. Of course he would not want to pick up these loads on a sideways slope of course. You still have to have common sense.

 

[HAR]

To those who responded to my post on this thread: The OP stated he had a CUT with loaded rear tires and what I assume to be a FEL with a grapple. He basically indicated that he did not have a 3PH attachment for use as a counterbalance. His questions were in regard to his current configuration. "How dangerous is this? Am I in imminent danger when this happens?".

My response was to his 'current configuration'...thus if his rear wheels are light or off the ground, he has exceeded limitations. And, Yes! That is dangerous.


Sure. He could buy/build/whatever something to use as a 3PH counterbalance, but none of that is relative to his "current configuration".

To Deepdrop: Buying addition attachments only makes sense if you have a long term use that can justify such a purchase. Buying a backhoe, just for counterbalance, without a long term need for one, is IMHO just not a good investment. The same goes for a box blade. While it may work well for a long gravel drive, will it work for your 'hills' on your property? Maybe renting something to be used short term that will do the job would make more sense than any outright purchase.

When I bought my CUT used, nearly 20 years ago, it came with a BrushHog. I have used it, but not at all in the last 3 years, and I do not see any current or future need, so that attachment will soon be up for sale.

 

[Jim Nelson]

I think that the most important thing that we all have failed to mention is that time in the seat is the one and only way to learn about your tractor. You need to listen to the fundamental safety advise, but in the end, time in the seat is the only way to really learn what you are dealing with. You need to start slow and cautiously and work your way up to those rocks, trees,or ruts that are the reason for your purchase. They will wait for you to learn.

 

[Big Barn]

To those who responded to my post on this thread: The OP stated he had a CUT with loaded rear tires and what I assume to be a FEL with a grapple. He basically indicated that he did not have a 3PH attachment for use as a counterbalance. His questions were in regard to his current configuration. "How dangerous is this? Am I in imminent danger when this happens?".

My response was to his 'current configuration'...thus if his rear wheels are light or off the ground, he has exceeded limitations. And, Yes! That is dangerous.


Sure. He could buy/build/whatever something to use as a 3PH counterbalance, but none of that is relative to his "current configuration".

To Deepdrop: Buying addition attachments only makes sense if you have a long term use that can justify such a purchase. Buying a backhoe, just for counterbalance, without a long term need for one, is IMHO just not a good investment. The same goes for a box blade. While it may work well for a long gravel drive, will it work for your 'hills' on your property? Maybe renting something to be used short term that will do the job would make more sense than any outright purchase.

When I bought my CUT used, nearly 20 years ago, it came with a BrushHog. I have used it, but not at all in the last 3 years, and I do not see any current or future need, so that attachment will soon be up for sale.

Agreed! Hence also my advice on loaded direction of travel when working on slopes.

 

[Diggin It]

Agreed! Hence also my advice on loaded direction of travel when working on slopes.

Which fits in with post 46 above yours. Experience on YOUR particular machine and property. We can all relate what we've learned on our machines and property, but the OP and anyone reading will have to try the different suggestions on their own place.

 

[airbiscuit]

If all the OP wants to do is gather wood and rocks, then a ballast box is in order - even better if it has PVC Pipe holes for carrying long handle tools, chain, an chainsaw sleeve and a receiver hitch. If he has any dirt work to do, or an additional aid for snow removal, then a Box Blade would useful beyond just weight.

 

[K5lwq]

To those who responded to my post on this thread: The OP stated he had a CUT with loaded rear tires and what I assume to be a FEL with a grapple. He basically indicated that he did not have a 3PH attachment for use as a counterbalance. His questions were in regard to his current configuration. "How dangerous is this? Am I in imminent danger when this happens?".

My response was to his 'current configuration'...thus if his rear wheels are light or off the ground, he has exceeded limitations. And, Yes! That is dangerous.


Sure. He could buy/build/whatever something to use as a 3PH counterbalance, but none of that is relative to his "current configuration".

To Deepdrop: Buying addition attachments only makes sense if you have a long term use that can justify such a purchase. Buying a backhoe, just for counterbalance, without a long term need for one, is IMHO just not a good investment. The same goes for a box blade. While it may work well for a long gravel drive, will it work for your 'hills' on your property? Maybe renting something to be used short term that will do the job would make more sense than any outright purchase.

When I bought my CUT used, nearly 20 years ago, it came with a BrushHog. I have used it, but not at all in the last 3 years, and I do not see any current or future need, so that attachment will soon be up for sale.

I agreed with your advice except I would not recommend a bigger tractor when he still has not utilized the one he has to it's potential. Certainly did not mean any disrespect.

 

[dodge man]

The OP came back to say he was looking at something for rear weight. I said ballast box since that is the cheapest.

 

[Redlands Okie]

Post 7 made by the OP refers to the desire to get a box blade for smoothing some hills on his place. Thus a box blade would serve that purpose as well as a counter weight.

 

[DieselBound]

If in doubt use stone boat or drag the rock if you can.

^^^ WINNER!

Drag really heavy stuff if you can. Might mess up the ground a bit, but your seat will stay clean! :laughing:

BUT... You need to get familiar with how to pop your loader control's boom (loader arms) into float FAST! I've been in so many situations that it's almost automatic; but, I'll still pucker big time. Recently didn't have any added ballast on the 3pt (rears are ballasted) and I dipped a bit in a depression as I was turning with a ton of feed on pallet forks and I started to roll/tip over (I get rushes, but my days of sailing prepared me to handle sudden moments of stark terror!) I instantly popped the loader control joystick up into float and BAM! everything dropped hard- BUT, I didn't tip the tractor. So, keep in mind that even a LOT of ballast won't necessarily keep you from rolling (keep turning actions to a minimum when you have a lot of weight on the front).

 

[powersrp]

Go to junk yard and get a car hood, preferably old and flat, that will drag rocks faster and wont tear your yard all up. Also much easier on the tractor

 

[DieselBound]

Go to junk yard and get a car hood, preferably old and flat, that will drag rocks faster and wont tear your yard all up. Also much easier on the tractor

My property came with truck and car hoods That's how I came to use them fairly extensively (see my avatar). Much easier to skid stuff.

Another point is that having a lot of weight on the front wheels, REGARDLESS of how much ballast you have, can be problematic on/over varied ground surfaces. I've sunk my front wheels with lots of weight in the bucket: this sucks not because of the terror factor, but because it's a mess to dump everything, get the tractor unstuck and then get the stuff rounded back up.

If one has a lot of work to do in which a given machine is going to be straining then consider renting more power. I regularly rent excavators; these are great for setting large rocks; not great for moving stuff very far though. No longer car/truck hoods, but the principle is the same (loaded using a 19k lb excavator; had to have been close to 3,500 lbs as the excavator strained and it's max lift is 4k lbs; note that I have a grapple on the tractor- when you're towing a trailer you're NOT able to tow a trailer AND have extra ballast on the 3pt! [I made a quick shot at picking up a big chunk of root and the butt end of the tractor lifted; that's when I decide to use the excavator- I'd already had it packed up to be picked up]):

 

[k0ua]

If you do get your front tires sunk down in the muck you can dump your bucket or grapple of its rock or log and then you can take your bucket or grapple and put it on top of that rock or log, and apply down pressure pressing it more into the much and it will suck your front tires and wheels up out of the muck. Then reverse your direction while sliding your bucket off of the top of the rock while standing on the differential lock pedal and hope you didn't get so far into the swamp that now your rear tires are stuck too. If you are own a slope unlock your split brakes (if equipped, some have them some dont) and press on the brake pedal that is downhill and corkscrew your self downhill. Turn the wheels of course too, but by braking one wheel and moving the other, it will pivot the tractor, and you ALWAYS want to pivot downhill so gravity is helping you instead of hurting you. Of course if you are against a tree, then all bets are off.

How do I know these things... Been there, done that, including the tree thing.. Never work up close to a tree if it is downhill from the tractor. You will be in against the tree in a heartbeat. Try it for yourself. You will find out. A tree, uphill from your present line of travel, no problem. Downhill tree, BIG problem.

 

[DieselBound]

^^^ Ha ha! I've been pinned in, stuck, against trees and stumps (debris pile). Most all this was with my B7800. But...

I got my NX5510 stuck just off the edge of my driveway! (had pallet forks on and went to shove them into the ground to help push me up/out and all they did was push all the way to the hilt like a stork sticking it's beak into the water! - rescue by truck)

Worst was getting an excavator stuck and having to get it back over a ditch that I'd just deepened and widened! (while thrashing about with the bucket I escaped certain disaster by noticing that the bucket pin was walking out- it would have went into the bottomless pit of mud and I'd not have had the use of it to help claw myself back on to the other side of the ditch, which required my truck and a come-a-long to get me out of that mess)

And then there was the time my loaded dump trailer (over 10k lbs of trailer and materials) started sliding off a path/road I was building. A good 3' drop off the side into impossible muck. NX5510 was pinned in ahead of the trailer: won't go into the stupid maneuvers necessary to get myself into that situation! NOT what "back dragging" means :laughing:

 

[Egon]

On steep hills:

Going up back up.
Going down drive forward and if there is a bucket keep it low & ready to drop. If you have individual brake pedals use them to steer.

 

[mred2]

My Daddy always said, "Fear is a good thing, it stops stupid people from killing themselves." If it scares you, stop and think.

 

[Deepdrop]

Lots of great comments, all appreciated. Yes, my question related to my current setup. Clearly, I need to change my current setup if I want to use my tractor's capability more fully, and you have all made it clear that it means rear ballast, one way or another. And I definitely plan to act on the good advice I've received. I really appreciate it, and I feel much better about what happened, how to prevent it from happening again, and also how I handled it at the time, which was to drop the grapple and just stop what I was doing.
I used to run an offshore fishing boat, and when I first started boating, many situations seemed frightening and dangerous. With experience, handling these same situations became second nature. In that context, I appreciate the points made that spending time on the tractor is a good way to become more in tune with it and also to become a safer operator.