UDT2 Maintenance interval, time vs. hours

[NEPA guy]

I'm at 350 hours, and the manual states to change the hydro fluid at 400. I barely used the tractor this year and can most likely get through the winter with using it just 50 hours for snow removal.

Last time I changed the hydro fluid was 3 years ago.

There is no, 4 years or 400 hour interval recommendation.

Change now or wait? Is there any data to support the time vs hour interval? I couldn't find much of anything online except that hydro fluid does degrade over time. Not sure about the UDT2.

Any comments would be appreciated

Thanks

 

[RickB]

Run it through the winter, change in the spring.

 

[RjCorazza]

I do mine by the hours. Changed the hydraulic oil in my L4060 last month at 400 hours and 4 years.

 

[diesel85]

My BX2200 stays inside. I use hours. I do that with all my equipment - including cars, trucks, and motorcycles. I have hour meters on them.

3000 miles is roughly 100 Hours. That includes idling, stop and go, etc. Basically average driving.

^I get this calculation from what I read off my vehicles hour meters and comparing them to mileage over the years.

Otherwise it's just a waste of resources.

 

[repete]

I have always erred on the side of caution. Oil is cheap. Do you store your tractor indoors or outdoors. When you use it do you get it hot to remove condensation that forms in gearcases and the chankcase? If you just warm it up a bit it expands the air in the cases and then when it cools it draws in either moist air or dry air depending on the atmosphere it cools in. I have never felt little use means little need for maintenance. On the contrary, it often means more per hour used.

A full fuel tank will not develop moisture as rapidly as a 1/4 full tank that breathes as the day warms and cools.

I have removed covers from front differentials with axle locks and found rust lines on the gears where they were never turned and as a consequence not immersed in lube. Exposed gears were rusty from lack of lubrication coating. You have got to exercise everything.

I suspect some will call my maintenance procedures overkill but I am now in excess of 6000 hours on my little L2550DT and it still runs strong even though the body is falling apart. . It did not last because I needed it to last, it lasted because I took exceptional care of it. Just my 2 cents.

 

[ovrszd]

I pay more attention to use than hours/dates.

For example I frequently couple/uncouple attachments on my rear remotes. That concerns me. Every time this is done there is contamination.

So I change on a time schedule.

 

[NEPA guy]

I store the tractor in a heated garage and try to start it up once a week and warm it up for at about 20 minutes including driving it around my yard to get the fluids moving around. (On my toyota manual it says to engage the 4wd occasionally on my truck and drive it a few miles to keep the gears lubed.) So what you're saying makes perfect sense.

I always keep the diesel tank full to minimize the air as well (as per the kubota manual) but don't get the sense of it as now my 5 gallon tank of fuel sits half full with air in it and I will use that to refill later...

I read in a sno-dogg plow manual that it wants you to drain the fluid once a year due to the moisture. So I guess that's where I'm getting my idea from to change it sooner than later. I never take my backhoe off, and the front loader only comes on and off when I swap it out for the snowplow/snowblower. I may end up changing it back and forth several times a winter season for the snowblower/snowplow (although I do find the snowplow to more effective overall and last winter I didn't use the snowblower once)

I do try to keep the valve area clean to minimize contamination. Funny, the "dust covers" that come with the tractor seems like the dumbest thing in the world. If anything, it adds dirt/grime to the valves by using them. I cut them off and always wipe the valve stems down with a lint free cloth and wrap them in tin foil when I put attachments away/swap them out.

The fluids are cheap by comparison to the cost of the tractor and don't mind changing them more frequently than not, but I find the drain bolts to be somewhat of a challenge. I torqued them to the specified foot/pound but they keep turning. It holds the fluid, but just doesn't get tight. I brought it up with the mechanic and he said just leave it and recommends getting them re-tapped if it becomes an issue. He said the metal where the bolt goes in was aluminum, softer than steel so its not uncommon. Retapping needs the pan to be dropped to clean out the metal bits so its a bit of a task. ($$)

I'm still on the fence on what to do, but I agree to err on the side of caution. If it wasn't for those pesky drain bolts I wouldn't be so hesitant.

Thanks for the replies

 

[s219]

Almost all of the concern I see posted here on the forum about hydraulic fluid is probably due to people overthinking or maybe extrapolating experience from other types of fluids. In the heavy equipment world (ie, construction equipment) they are a lot harder on their equipment and push the hydraulic fluid far harder than any of us do with our tractors. And that equipment may be outside for all kinds of weather compared to a lot of tractors here that are stored inside or babied.

I think some of the concerns are expected, but ultimately not valid. These concerns would not scale up or be feasible for large equipment. Can't change out the hydraulic fluid on a large excavator that uses hundreds of gallons, on a whim. The world would run out of hydraulic fluid if everyone in that world was as sensitive about hydraulic fluid as some tractor owners. Which is why maintenance in that heavy equipment world goes by the book and you don't hear anybody worrying about the quality of their hydraulic fluid like it's a fine wine.

I say look at the maintenance schedule posted in your owner's manual and stick to that. Don't overthink it. Tractors have been around for 100+ years and the manufacturers have a good idea how to specify fluid maintenance/replacement schedules to meet warranty requirements.

I am about to do the 200 hour service on my L3200. It calls for new filters but the fluid is good until 400 hours. I can see the fluid in the sight glass and it looks as clean as when the tractor was new.

 

[RickB]

Almost all of the concern I see posted here on the forum about hydraulic fluid is probably due to people overthinking or maybe extrapolating experience from other types of fluids. In the heavy equipment world (ie, construction equipment) they are a lot harder on their equipment and push the hydraulic fluid far harder than any of us do with our tractors. And that equipment may be outside for all kinds of weather compared to a lot of tractors here that are stored inside or babied.

I think some of the concerns are expected, but ultimately not valid. These concerns would not scale up or be feasible for large equipment. Can't change out the hydraulic fluid on a large excavator that uses hundreds of gallons, on a whim. The world would run out of hydraulic fluid if everyone in that world was as sensitive about hydraulic fluid as some tractor owners. Which is why maintenance in that heavy equipment world goes by the book and you don't hear anybody worrying about the quality of their hydraulic fluid like it's a fine wine.

I say look at the maintenance schedule posted in your owner's manual and stick to that. Don't overthink it. Tractors have been around for 100+ years and the manufacturers have a good idea how to specify fluid maintenance/replacement schedules to meet warranty requirements.

I am about to do the 200 hour service on my L3200. It calls for new filters but the fluid is good until 400 hours. I can see the fluid in the sight glass and it looks as clean as when the tractor was new.

Apples and oranges. Hyd oil that is consistently run at or over 175-180 F will retain far less water than a CUT that runs 50-100 hours per year. Water from condensation is the primary contaminant in the machines typically discussed here. Seasonal temperature and humidity changes coupled with short run times and low oil temps accelerate hydraulic oil contamination in this group of machines.

Construction and excavation equipment design takes into consideration the expected operating conditions and recommended service intervals for those machines reflect that. You don’t see wheel loaders, excavators and skid loaders with 400 hour hydraulic oil drain intervals.

 

[mikester]

I'm at 350 hours, and the manual states to change the hydro fluid at 400. I barely used the tractor this year and can most likely get through the winter with using it just 50 hours for snow removal.

Last time I changed the hydro fluid was 3 years ago.

There is no, 4 years or 400 hour interval recommendation.

Change now or wait? Is there any data to support the time vs hour interval? I couldn't find much of anything online except that hydro fluid does degrade over time. Not sure about the UDT2.

Any comments would be appreciated

Thanks

How much is it worth to you NOT having a blown/damaged tranny? OEM Oil and filters are cheap compared to a new tractor. Penny wise and pound foolish?

 

[repete]

I store the tractor in a heated garage and try to start it up once a week and warm it up for at about 20 minutes including driving it around my yard to get the fluids moving around. (On my toyota manual it says to engage the 4wd occasionally on my truck and drive it a few miles to keep the gears lubed.) So what you're saying makes perfect sense.

I always keep the diesel tank full to minimize the air as well (as per the kubota manual) but don't get the sense of it as now my 5 gallon tank of fuel sits half full with air in it and I will use that to refill later...

I read in a sno-dogg plow manual that it wants you to drain the fluid once a year due to the moisture. So I guess that's where I'm getting my idea from to change it sooner than later. I never take my backhoe off, and the front loader only comes on and off when I swap it out for the snowplow/snowblower. I may end up changing it back and forth several times a winter season for the snowblower/snowplow (although I do find the snowplow to more effective overall and last winter I didn't use the snowblower once)

I do try to keep the valve area clean to minimize contamination. Funny, the "dust covers" that come with the tractor seems like the dumbest thing in the world. If anything, it adds dirt/grime to the valves by using them. I cut them off and always wipe the valve stems down with a lint free cloth and wrap them in tin foil when I put attachments away/swap them out.

The fluids are cheap by comparison to the cost of the tractor and don't mind changing them more frequently than not, but I find the drain bolts to be somewhat of a challenge. I torqued them to the specified foot/pound but they keep turning. It holds the fluid, but just doesn't get tight. I brought it up with the mechanic and he said just leave it and recommends getting them re-tapped if it becomes an issue. He said the metal where the bolt goes in was aluminum, softer than steel so its not uncommon. Retapping needs the pan to be dropped to clean out the metal bits so its a bit of a task. ($$)

I'm still on the fence on what to do, but I agree to err on the side of caution. If it wasn't for those pesky drain bolts I wouldn't be so hesitant.

Thanks for the replies

Let me know when you want to sell this tractor as it sounds like you take very good care of it.

 

[s219]

Apples and oranges. Hyd oil that is consistently run at or over 175-180 F will retain far less water than a CUT that runs 50-100 hours per year. Water from condensation is the primary contaminant in the machines typically discussed here. Seasonal temperature and humidity changes coupled with short run times and low oil temps accelerate hydraulic oil contamination in this group of machines.

Construction and excavation equipment design takes into consideration the expected operating conditions and recommended service intervals for those machines reflect that. You don’t see wheel loaders, excavators and skid loaders with 400 hour hydraulic oil drain intervals.

I agree, but I suspect when tractors are used hard, even with limited hours, it can really help ward off moisture and condensation issues inside the hydraulic system. Probably using a tractor hard enough to heat the fluid just once a month is enough. Not all of us do that, but I suspect most do. Between bush hogging and grading work, I know I do. One time while I was taking a break, I could see heat rising out the breather tube on my tractor in the sunlight, so it's obviously moving hot air out of the system. That has got to carry any water vapor with it.

 

[SDT]

I store the tractor in a heated garage and try to start it up once a week and warm it up for at about 20 minutes including driving it around my yard to get the fluids moving around. (On my toyota manual it says to engage the 4wd occasionally on my truck and drive it a few miles to keep the gears lubed.) So what you're saying makes perfect sense.

I always keep the diesel tank full to minimize the air as well (as per the kubota manual) but don't get the sense of it as now my 5 gallon tank of fuel sits half full with air in it and I will use that to refill later...

I read in a sno-dogg plow manual that it wants you to drain the fluid once a year due to the moisture. So I guess that's where I'm getting my idea from to change it sooner than later. I never take my backhoe off, and the front loader only comes on and off when I swap it out for the snowplow/snowblower. I may end up changing it back and forth several times a winter season for the snowblower/snowplow (although I do find the snowplow to more effective overall and last winter I didn't use the snowblower once)

I do try to keep the valve area clean to minimize contamination. Funny, the "dust covers" that come with the tractor seems like the dumbest thing in the world. If anything, it adds dirt/grime to the valves by using them. I cut them off and always wipe the valve stems down with a lint free cloth and wrap them in tin foil when I put attachments away/swap them out.

The fluids are cheap by comparison to the cost of the tractor and don't mind changing them more frequently than not, but I find the drain bolts to be somewhat of a challenge. I torqued them to the specified foot/pound but they keep turning. It holds the fluid, but just doesn't get tight. I brought it up with the mechanic and he said just leave it and recommends getting them re-tapped if it becomes an issue. He said the metal where the bolt goes in was aluminum, softer than steel so its not uncommon. Retapping needs the pan to be dropped to clean out the metal bits so its a bit of a task. ($$)

I'm still on the fence on what to do, but I agree to err on the side of caution. If it wasn't for those pesky drain bolts I wouldn't be so hesitant.

Thanks for the replies

It sounds like you (and I) border on obsessive-compulsive vis a vis maintenance.

As you keep your tractor in a heated garage during the off season, condensation is of much less concern (No, I did not say no concern.) than it is for most of us.

There is no need for you to change the oil now but do so by all means if it makes it easier for you to sleep this winter.

SDT

 

[NEPA guy]

Let me know when you want to sell this tractor as it sounds like you take very good care of it.

HAHAHA

 

[NEPA guy]

I appreciate all the replies. I think everyone makes some really good points. Here is another interesting article I found.

"2. Oil does not need to be changed very frequently.
Hydraulic oil in your backhoe is not the same as engine oil in your car. Hydraulic oil isn't exposed to the same abusive conditions experienced by automotive engine oil, such as 2000ｰ combustion temperatures, soot ingression from incomplete burn, and excessive contamination from wear particles, water or fuel.

Under normal conditions, a well-maintained hydraulic system oil can last indefinitely. Hydraulic oil breaks down with extreme heat, excessive water saturation and oxidation. Further, conditions such as high water content and heat also exacerbate the oxidation. High heat also reduces viscosity, which if low enough, will allow metal-to-metal contact, generating internal contamination.

However, if oil is clean, cool and free from water, the chemistry to break it down does not exist, and it remains in the same state as it was poured into the reservoir. If anything, some of the additives, such as zinc, can deplete over time, so keeping an eye on your fluid through an oil-analysis program will ensure you're within operating parameters.

Manufacturers of tractors and other off-highway machinery will publish required hydraulic oil change periods, which are the longest of any of the fluid in the machine. However, some newer and larger tractors have no published hydraulic oil change interval, which could be related to the overall design of the machine, including measures to ensure heat, water and particle contamination are kept to a minimum or avoided altogether."



I propose sending out a sample of my hydro fluid and seeing what the lab has to say. I found one from Blackstone laboratories for $30 which was recommended from TBN from a guy who said he was going to do the same thing, but never posted the results.

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/oil-fuel-lubricants/282387-can-you-get-oil-analysis.html

I will deliver.

The kit has been ordered. Granted I will be taking the sample from my reservoir, and from reading about other testing companies, they want me to hook up a valve and tie it into the system at a specific point. I think this will offer a general idea. It will be a fun experiment.

 

[NEPA guy]

Got kit in mail, sampled from dipstick. It came with a prepaid shipping label on it, a bottle in a bottle, and a simple postcard for info. I'm sure the test is a basic as it gets, we'll see.

 

[jonsstihl]

can't wait to see the results. nothing like data to back up a certain point of view.

 

[ovrszd]

It's testing for foreign liquid, water, fuel, etc. And it's testing for heavy metals. Your analysis of the results is up to you.

 

[NEPA guy]

It's testing for foreign liquid, water, fuel, etc. And it's testing for heavy metals. Your analysis of the results is up to you.

Care to elaborate? How is it up to me? Are you saying it's a personal opinion?

Granted it's an inexpensive test and not like the $100-$200 ones I see. I would assume that if it's clear from contamination, it would be viable.

Whether or not it can show how much it has degraded and can operate as intended is the question. If it could be compared to a sample that was unused that would be able to give me a fair idea of its condition.

Don't make me send out a clean sample! Don't do it! lol

 

[RickB]

Any analysis I ever saw had basic comments that will give you some guidance and baseline numbers for an acceptable range of tested values.