Making my own 20 KW Genset

[sodamo]

Born and grew up in Maine, but left when someone decided if you lived on the coast you could afford the tax for redistribution to non coastal. That was 1977. Hopefully, that madness failed, but I won’t be moving back. Seeing snow on the mountain pleases me more than shoveling it.

Ended up here on Hawaii in 2005, no HVAC at all except propane fireplace, but completely off grid. Off grid power isn’t truly free, LOL

As for propane, rejoice a bit. My last delivery was $5.18/gal. My last bulk diesel was 3.56/gal, but that was last Mar.

 

[BrokenTrack]

Off grid power isn稚 truly free, LOL

No, it is not free, and a lot of times it ends up being its own lifestyle....a person's hobby onto itself. Which that is fine of course.

When you factor in heating a home though, and power generation combined; it really closes the gap on buying on grid power and domestic heat.

In this case, I am using what I got for major parts to make the genset, but if I was to buy the gensets instead, I think a better approach would be to buy smaller units, and then synchronize the two together when they were needed. The cost of syncing equipment is not that expensive, and would allow one engine to run when a smaller amount of power is needed, or when heat is needed. I say the latter because it would only take one engine, at half the size, for all my heating needs. I would just need a secondary genset to fire up for the bigger electrical loads.

It has been years since I worked for the railroad and synced in AC gensets, but that was using analog controls, so I imagine today, with digital technology, it is probably a lot easier, and probably could be automated. Maybe set the second genset to lag, then have it fire up at 75% load on the first? Maybe run use one as primary, and one as back-up so that every 30,000 hours you replace just one. Or maybe alternate the units so that you get close to 60,000 hours out of them before both have to be replaced? (I do not know...same, but different I guess).

When I did the math on one bigger engine, with combined heat and power, using plug and play gensets and fuel consumption, it worked so that I was within $1200 of buying propane and buying on-grid power 24/7-150 days. Since then, propane has gone up, and grid power just went up 2% on a PUC approved KWH hike, so it is even more favorable then when I first ran the numbers. I think with a two genset setup, a person could get bought power and heat closer to self-produced power and heat...150 days (the heating season here).

 

[chim]

Wow, they sure are proud of their fuel in other areas. Currently $1.299 in link below. There are times when propane dips below a buck a gallon here. Wifey watches the prices when our 1,000 gallon tank gets below half and has it filled when it suits. We usually go through around 500 gallons a year, so our heating costs aren't bad.

Propane Prices & Delivery in Lancaster, Berks & Lebanon County

 

[grsthegreat]

Same here on our 1,000 gal tank. Just went and looked it’s at 45%. I will fill it again in summer when it nears $1 a gal again.

 

[cdaigle430]

Yeah I call it co-generation.

For me, this will allow my house to be heated by:

Coal
Firewood
Electricity
Diesel
Propane
Wood Pellets (back-up)

Then for electricity:

On-Grid
Off-grid

It will just give me a lot of options: and I like options!

I would be focusing more on cooling than heating the way our weather has been changing. Installed my 16KW three years ago and only used it 3 times.

 

[cdaigle430]

Maybe...

The two things to remember are, the efficiency rate of the furnace or boiler. For instance, a oil fired boiler might be 87% efficient, and a propane boiler 95% efficient, so that has to be calculated in. But the other thing is BTU's per gallon. Fuel Oil has 131,000 btu's per gallon, and propane only has 91,000 btu's per gallon.

Depending on how those two things work, it could mean the difference between being worth switching or not.

What I like about having various forms of heat, is that I can chose which heat I use based upon price. Another thing I find myself doing a lot of, is switching between heating sources. Last year we lived in a tiny house and ended up heating with coal, firewood, oil, and wood pellets. For the most part we used wood pellets, but when it got cold we used firewood, and when it was really, really cold we used coal. When we were not home, we used oil.

Tried it all, No2 oil, propane, pellet, NG and settled on one-Natural Gas. Also upgraded the house-insulation, triple pan windows, metal roof and soon vinal siding. You do know no2 oil is very volatile-every little crisis and shortage affects its price drastically!

 

[BrokenTrack]

I would be focusing more on cooling than heating the way our weather has been changing. Installed my 16KW three years ago and only used it 3 times.

It has been a funny winter; the same weather pattern we had back in 1994 for some reason?

Cooling is not much of an issue because I have 55 HP available, so I can have up to a 40 KW generator. I can either run room sized air conditioners, or put in some minisplits. I got 20 KW, but that was just what I had for a generator kicking around.

Normally on this hill I just open up the windows and hope the forever-wind does not blow me off the hill! (LOL)

 

[LouNY]

That should be a nice system when you get it all setup and dialed in.

 

[BrokenTrack]

That should be a nice system when you get it all setup and dialed in.

Thanks...

To me it is just a fun project. As I work on various systems, slowly as it is, I get to work through the issues, and then think about the best way to get the job done. Sometimes it is as simple as getting the starter to turn, but also in how I am going to make a start circuit for it, or if I am going to mount a radiator on the engine, or off-set it and power it via an electric fan instead to take some of the parasitic load off the engine.

Being a genset, it has a lot of options because there is always power available, so it is fun to work through the different possible setups.

 

[grsthegreat]

broke down and topped off propane tank. not sure what will happen to delivery due to stupid virus scare. the dealer called me and told me he would be in area today, so i had him top off tank. we have had 3 long power outages in past few weeks. power was off 2 days in longest one. $1.25 per gal wasnt bad price.

better safe than sorry.

 

[The Fred]

Wow not one single comment about your boiler.

Years ago a friend asked me what the 3 main parts to a wood stove are. I commented that I really didn't know, then he said they are the lifter, leg, and poker; how I laughed.

Good luck with your project it looks like fun.

 

[BrokenTrack]

Wow not one single comment about your boiler.

I am not sure too many guys saw the boiler anyway!

 

[D2Cat]

Your 55 HP rating on the Perkins 4108 might be a bit optimistic.

I bought an older Bobcat skidsteer that had that engine in it. The head was cracked and I had a tough time even locating one. They were use in the US in Gehl skidsteer, some Bobcat skidsteers, but mostly used in sail boats. Around here finding a sail boat large enough to need an engine .....isn't. Good that you found the parts you needed. Trying to import the engine is now impossible because it does not meet EPA requirements.

Anyways, all the info I found indicated the HP in the 38HP range, obviously determined by RPM. Their history says they usually last a long time, and known as oil leakers. Those reefer engines are a breed of their own! Take good care of it, and have fun with your project.

 

[BrokenTrack]

Your 55 HP rating on the Perkins 4108 might be a bit optimistic.

I bought an older Bobcat skidsteer that had that engine in it. The head was cracked and I had a tough time even locating one. They were use in the US in Gehl skidsteer, some Bobcat skidsteers, but mostly used in sail boats. Around here finding a sail boat large enough to need an engine .....isn't. Good that you found the parts you needed. Trying to import the engine is now impossible because it does not meet EPA requirements.

Anyways, all the info I found indicated the HP in the 38HP range, obviously determined by RPM. Their history says they usually last a long time, and known as oil leakers. Those reefer engines are a breed of their own! Take good care of it, and have fun with your project.

Maybe...the manual says 55 Brake Horse Power but I have not done the bore and stroke calculations to see what it is. It does kind of suck that this is a high speed engine instead of slow speed (4000 rpm at full power instead of 1800 rpm), but it is what it is, and I got what I got. Not really ideal for a Genset, except that it is designed to go to 30,000 hours.

I started to put the new starter on it today, but I got sidetracked...then cold...so I have not got that completed yet.

The biggest job will be getting the fuel lines figured out. Oh my word, A/N fittings, inverted flare, flare and pipe thread: could there be more variations then that? (LOL). I did find another tank with a fill port, whistle, gauge and legs, so that will save me about $150. I was going to put high legs on the tank so that atmospheric pressure forces the fuel to the engine instead of having to rely on its fuel pump, but if it is an issue, I can change that later. I will remount the fuel filter lower though so that the fuel tank will have to be pretty low before the mechanical fuel pump has to work to get the fuel to the injection pump.

I might also turn it 90 degrees from its orginal position in my shed at my father's suggestion just to make it easier to work on. It will make placing the firewood/coal boiler harder, but I can cross that bridge when I get there.

I got the manual for this engine if you need it as well as the other two engines in this engine series. Just let me know and I will email it to you.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I never figured that my fuel system for my recent generator project would turn out to turn into a bit of a fiasco. I went with a suction pipe going into a farily deep 3 foot tank. Every time I lost my prime. A check valve and dozens of hours later, it may or may not be solved. Doing it again, I would have the fuel coming off the bottom of the tank (with a cock) and going into the Parker filter assembly. At least that way, you can open the vent plug of the filter and see if you get fuel running out there.

 

[BrokenTrack]

I never figured that my fuel system for my recent generator project would turn out to turn into a bit of a fiasco. I went with a suction pipe going into a farily deep 3 foot tank. Every time I lost my prime. A check valve and dozens of hours later, it may or may not be solved. Doing it again, I would have the fuel coming off the bottom of the tank (with a cock) and going into the Parker filter assembly. At least that way, you can open the vent plug of the filter and see if you get fuel running out there.

On mine the biggest problem will be with the return fuel lines. When they removed the reefer engine from the trailer they must have bashed the fuel filter area because some fittings were busted, and some hoses ripped off. But the way they did it, they had the excess fuel return coming off the injection pump, and the injector fuel lube, going back into the system at the fuel filter housing.

I could do that, or just send the fuel back to the top of the tank. I would have to make my own port into the top of the tank as all my ports are taken up by the fuel fill, whistle and tank gauge though.

I just wish they went with all one type of fitting. Fuel return is army/navy fittings, fuel inlet is inverted flare, some others are compression fittings, some are pipe thread fittings, and some are traditional flare.

 

[BrokenTrack]

I did get the coal/firewood boiler moved however, then spun the genset 90 degrees so it sits in my generator shed better.

I could not get my tank behind my generator like I wanted it too, so it is turned 90 degrees to the generator, but I think there is enough room from it to the engine to mount the generator head, and its drive shaft.

Then I went down to my father's house and grabbed the tank fill, whistle, tank gauge, legs and tank shut off valve off another old tank we had kicking around, so that saved me quite a bit of money. The only thing I need now is the plastic cap that goes on over the gauge plunger since it was busted off.

I also got the start circuit and starter to work, but one battery is not going to cut it on this high compression engine, so I will have to add a second battery in parallel to get it to turn over the engine fully. But the starter worked, and the "new" starter circuit that was robbed from another single/3 phase generator I had kicking around. So there was some significant progress yesterday.

 

[Smokeydog]

Fatal flaw in your engineering math. Mechanical energy doesn’t magically become heat energy. Loss from conversion is high.
While using the waste heat from the engine will work you will not have the btus you calculated. You are only recovering the btus from your engine cooling system.

 

[Industrial Toys]

My fuel system used a combination of press-on fuel line fittings made with US hose, JIC and NPT. Trouble with the press-on fittings is that they are on there for good. Looks clean and OEM but No good for troubleshooting. And the JIC fittings are supposed to be suitable for fuel applications, but in a suction application??? Also a small cock at the top of the suction tube was giving me doubt for lossing prime. Definitely would have gone with a low mounted gravity fed port if doing it again. NPT is crude, but you can depend on it given some thread seal and a six foot pipe on the wrench!

Certainly, the fuel return from injectors to the top of the tank was the least of my problems.

 

[electrycmonk]

I am not sure too many guys saw the boiler anyway!

I thought it would of been in bad form to comment. Even to compliment.... I assumed it was akin to attractive WWII aircraft nose art and left it at that out of respect......

Am I wrong for having this point of reference?