R1 vs R3 or 4 Traction

[Texasmark]

Well that's simple enough. Going by main use, it's Ag R1's for traction in the field, Turf R3s for the lawn, and Industrial R4s for a compromise.

So is it best traction? Least damage? Or compromise? At least we get a choice.

As for use on slopes, well.... I prefer not to be there at all. Though if I have to go there I'll go with R3 turf tires. Not because turfs are so wonderful on slopes, but because both the other choices are worse - being narrower, higher, and with less side resistance.

BTW, I run 8 to 12 lbs pressure in the rears, work them hard, and never have had a tire slip on a rim.

rScotty

Interesting. I have slopes on pond dams running a ⅓ or better slope. Initially mowed with a tractor and R1s but didn't feel comfortable....rollover worry. Went to lawn mowers which came with turfs and they just lost it, both conventional riding and ZT....don't mow these with a tractor any longer.

Went from turfs to bar lugs on the mowers and they did ok up and down but not side (parallel) running. One area has trees right at the base of the slope so you have to parallel mow. Went from 12" dia wheels down to 8" with the same 23" OD using studded snow tires with soft sidewalls, running 5-10 psig and solved the problem and moving on to the large balloon deliberately created by changing wheel diameter got a soft ride mowing pasture perimeters.

ZT mower weighs about 1200# and it holds just fine. Main reason for using the mower rather than the tractor is that the mower has a low CG and wide frame as compared to the tractor having the opposite and I wasn't going to run the wheels out on a tractor just to mow that dam making it basically useless for it's intended purpose.

 

[Texasmark]

Would it be these that you are talking about (R14)

Titan International - R14T Crossover Tire for Compact Tractors

Interesting new designs. Glad to see somebody is paying attention to owner's tire desires.

 

[Texasmark]

Sounds as though R3s up front with R1s in the rear might be the best: best rear and front traction. Wonder if we can all get a matched set so the fronts don't over rotate much. Get most heavy duty R3s as possible if doing FEL work.

Ralph

This past week I have been cutting down and hauling/dragging away, Willow trees from in and around the pond, mostly sloping areas. The combination of OEM R4s on the front and weighted R1s on the rear is working just fine using the 2400 as it's small and maneuverable where I need that, yet tugs really well. 4wd and a good hand brake come in mighty handy too.

 

[Texasmark]

The answer all are seeking is simple;

One only needs multiple tractors with different tire setups for the kind of work they do with each tractor. :tractor:

Just why you see the lineup in my corral. I work alone and everything is different. Best solution is as you said.

 

[MechanicalGuy]

Why would tire type have anything to do with low pressure causing rim slipping? Especially with R1's supposedly being able to run low without slipping. I would think the tire traction on a tractive surface for it's construction would be the factor in slippage.

 

[Carl_NH]

^^^ What he said!

And you could read the entire site (or keep up with new material) in one setting.

Now, I don't even try.

X3 and what's really great is most have stuck around!

R4's are for me and my little TLB with rocks and rough ground, but grew up with R1's on the farm, and the R14's look interesting

 

[rScotty]

Why would tire type have anything to do with low pressure causing rim slipping? Especially with R1's supposedly being able to run low without slipping. I would think the tire traction on a tractive surface for it's construction would be the factor in slippage.

I was wondering the same thing, which Spyderlk answered in post #11. Apparently the problem of rim slippage is well known among people who use certain types of liquid fill in the tires. Beet juice especially. Plus most tractor tires start out as tubeless types.

Maybe that explains why I've haven't heard about slippage locally. Liquid fill is rare here, although cast iron weights are common.
rScotty

 

[Texasmark]

Why would tire type have anything to do with low pressure causing rim slipping? Especially with R1's supposedly being able to run low without slipping. I would think the tire traction on a tractive surface for it's construction would be the factor in slippage.

Stiff sidewall, even on the turf which was a total unexpected disappointment....... on a slick rim and no air pressure to force it against the wheel... lateral pressure and wala...instant tire breakaway from the rim, or linear pressure and tire slips. I did find that the sealing surface on the R1s was a lot more supple and more rubber vs cord where the seal is required. Having fluid in the tire or weights on the wheel just aggravate the problem.....tried both on this tractor with the first two types used and both failed.

 

[case580ck]

I was wondering the same thing, which Spyderlk answered in post #11. Apparently the problem of rim slippage is well known among people who use certain types of liquid fill in the tires. Beet juice especially. Plus most tractor tires start out as tubeless types.

Maybe that explains why I've haven't heard about slippage locally. Liquid fill is rare here, although cast iron weights are common.
rScotty

I run R4's on both my Kubota L4330 and on a very old Case backhoe 580CK. I would not use anything else because of the weight i often deal with and tending 'brush fires' etc. I do not use either when its raining or muddy because our soil would leave tracks for months, which it will even with turf tires on the zero turns. When you are going up a 45 degree incline with a full bucket or an 800lb mower and there is 17ft of water depth directly behind /under, you want all the bite you can get. at least I do.

by the way , which part of N. Texas are you in Texasmark ? i am in Waxahachie.

 

[MechanicalGuy]

I run R4's on both my Kubota L4330 and on a very old Case backhoe 580CK. I would not use anything else because of the weight i often deal with and tending 'brush fires' etc. I do not use either when its raining or muddy because our soil would leave tracks for months, which it will even with turf tires on the zero turns. When you are going up a 45 degree incline with a full bucket or an 800lb mower and there is 17ft of water depth directly behind /under, you want all the bite you can get. at least I do.

by the way , which part of N. Texas are you in Texasmark ? i am in Waxahachie.

45 degree inclines are pretty rare.

 

[Threepoint]

I run R4's on both my Kubota L4330 and on a very old Case backhoe 580CK. I would not use anything else because of the weight i often deal with and tending 'brush fires' etc. I do not use either when its raining or muddy because our soil would leave tracks for months, which it will even with turf tires on the zero turns. When you are going up a 45 degree incline with a full bucket or an 800lb mower and there is 17ft of water depth directly behind /under, you want all the bite you can get. at least I do.

by the way , which part of N. Texas are you in Texasmark ? i am in Waxahachie.

Case580ck, do you perhaps mean a 45 percent incline? A 45 degree incline would be a 100 percent slope. The vehicle you'd need for that would be a tram.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fileente-Slope_--Degres-Ratio_V1.jpg

 

[Diggin It]

After a year and close to a half, I can state with absolute certainty that R4s do NOT have decent traction on soft or wet ground. I have completely lost traction to the point of sliding all four wheels even in 4WD on slick muddy inclines. I have never tried them on snow, but I'm not sure I'll even try (if we get any snow next Winter) given what I've experienced so far.

 

[Jstpssng]

After a year and close to a half, I can state with absolute certainty that R4s do NOT have decent traction on soft or wet ground. I have completely lost traction to the point of sliding all four wheels even in 4WD on slick muddy inclines. I have never tried them on snow, but I'm not sure I'll even try (if we get any snow next Winter) given what I've experienced so far.

That's why they make chains. I have R-1s and wouldn't even attempt to go through the winter without steel wrapped around them.

 

[Texasmark]

Why would tire type have anything to do with low pressure causing rim slipping? Especially with R1's supposedly being able to run low without slipping. I would think the tire traction on a tractive surface for it's construction would be the factor in slippage.

Stiff sidewall and new, freshly, slick painted wheel....nothing to grip when torque is applied to the wheel....if the tread can hold onto the ground.

 

[Texasmark]

I run R4's on both my Kubota L4330 and on a very old Case backhoe 580CK. I would not use anything else because of the weight i often deal with and tending 'brush fires' etc. I do not use either when its raining or muddy because our soil would leave tracks for months, which it will even with turf tires on the zero turns. When you are going up a 45 degree incline with a full bucket or an 800lb mower and there is 17ft of water depth directly behind /under, you want all the bite you can get. at least I do.

by the way , which part of N. Texas are you in Texasmark ? i am in Waxahachie.

About 65 miles as the crow flies NE of Dallas.

 

[rScotty]

Why would tire type have anything to do with low pressure causing rim slipping? Especially with R1's supposedly being able to run low without slipping. I would think the tire traction on a tractive surface for it's construction would be the factor in slippage.

Stiff sidewall and new, freshly, slick painted wheel....nothing to grip when torque is applied to the wheel....if the tread can hold onto the ground.

It's pretty common in tire shops to slather the tire rim and edge of new tire with soapy water or other some other lube before assembling them. There are few rules in a tire shop...it could be anything, and have nothing at all to do with the type of tire tread.
rScotty

 

[Fallon]

Stiff sidewall and new, freshly, slick painted wheel....nothing to grip when torque is applied to the wheel....if the tread can hold onto the ground.

R1 rims are bigger in diameter than R4 or turfs. All things being equal more surface area on the bigger rim will give more traction. How much real world impact that makes vs the tire mounting lube they often use, I have no idea.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I have never had a properly inflated R1 tractor tire slip on the rim, perhaps a turf tire with extremely low pressure might slip but then again, they dont get much traction to start with.

 

[Texasmark]

It's pretty common in tire shops to slather the tire rim and edge of new tire with soapy water or other some other lube before assembling them. There are few rules in a tire shop...it could be anything, and have nothing at all to do with the type of tire tread.
rScotty

I mount mine and try different things. When one has broken away from the rim I also come back (now that it's mounted) and wipe/wash off installation lube. I have even used "belt dressing" to assist in getting them to grip.

On rim diameter, my tractor came with R4s and the rear wheel diameter was 16.5" which is the skid steer size. To go to R3s I had to change to a 16" rim as they didn't make them in the 16.5" diameter. Then when going to R1s I was still able to use the 16" rim. So rim had nothing to do with it and in fact, the R3, being wider had a better opportunity to grip but due to the stiffer sidewall chose not to.

 

[tradosaurus]

If there ever was a question, I have proven it on my 2400. Bought it with R4s, replaced with R3s, and now have R1s on the rear and traction is night and day and I removed a pair (had 2 pair now only 1) of rear weights I used on the 1s and 3s. Other thing is that I can run 10 psi (for a softer ride) with the R1s and the 3s and 4s would slip on the rim at that air pressure.

My first tractor I bought last year the salesman tried to talk me out of R1's as most if not all the tractors on his lot came with R4's.

Glad I listened to an old farmer who told me to get R1's.