Buying Advice Help me find the right tool for my property (tractor, backhoe, mini ex, skid)??

[JohnFourteenSix]

I bought a used John Deere 3032e from a dealership a few months ago for $15000. It has low (<200) hours, and it's a very maneuverable machine. But I'm coming to realize I'm not using it for any of the tractor related tasks that people use tractors for. I have no grass to mow, no bales of hay, no plowing, tilling, etc. I graded my driveway once.

The main tasks I'm finding myself doing is trying to dig deep drainage trenches/swales, using a posthole digger for planting seedlings, and just digging in the ground for dirt and moving it around the property. I also have a few utility trenches (3 ft deep) that I need to dig. The tractor fails at all the tasks except for using the posthole digger.

Based on some research, it seems a mini excavator is the best tool for the job, but the pricing seems cost prohibitive, and I'd be losing the maneuverability and speed of the tractor (if I sell the 3032e to fund the excavator). I can't afford to spend another $15-20k+ on an excavator (I'm looking at 3 ton units). I've been looking at the JD 370B backhoe (made for my tractor), but that looks like another $8k, and I'm not sure if the tractor's hydraulics can really make it do a whole lot anyway. Furthermore, it seems like backhoe attachments don't retain their value as much as the actual tractor itself.

The option that seems most viable is to get an older large tractor with a backhoe attached to it. This should land me at around the same $8k cost (and keep the 3032e), but with a much larger and more capable machine that even if not ideal for digging, will certainly not be underpowered. The problem with those is that they are mainly 2wd so I would need to propel myself with a bucket once I get in the muck.

I've looked at all the threads that say to rent an excavator, but renting is only good when you have everything planned out and have a specific task at hand. For us, it's likely going to be a lot of trial and error until we figure out what works.

My overall budget is around 20-25k, and I need either one or two machines that can:

• Use posthole digger in tight areas
• Carry dirt around
• Carry stuff on forks (boxes, lumber, etc.)
• Dig 3-4 ft deep trenches in muck
• Excavate small retaining ponds in muck
• Perform some kind of grading

I'm in what's known as Florida flatwoods, so I have muck, sand, and a water table that's about 4 ft below the surface, so little point in digging below that.

 

[Diggin It]

One thing some people have suggested when a poster mentions some heavy digging to be done within a few months is to buy an older machine, do the work, then sell it. Many claim you'll get all or most of your money back out of it. But that pre-supposes that you have the money to spend initially.

I've dug holes, removed stumps and loosened dirt with my BH, but haven't taken on any long trenches yet.


If you're looking to replace the JD with a do all machine, my 125 was well within your budget at a little under $19K. The same sized JD was closer to $22K.

 

[rScotty]

SNIP...
The main tasks I'm finding myself doing is trying to dig deep drainage trenches/swales, using a posthole digger for planting seedlings, and just digging in the ground for dirt and moving it around the property. I also have a few utility trenches (3 ft deep) that I need to dig. The tractor fails at all the tasks except for using the posthole digger.

Based on some research, it seems a mini excavator is the best tool for the job, but the pricing seems cost prohibitive, and I'd be losing the maneuverability and speed of the tractor (if I sell the 3032e to fund the excavator). I can't afford to spend another $15-20k+ on an excavator (I'm looking at 3 ton units). I've been looking at the JD 370B backhoe (made for my tractor), but that looks like another $8k, and I'm not sure if the tractor's hydraulics can really make it do a whole lot anyway. Furthermore, it seems like backhoe attachments don't retain their value as much as the actual tractor itself.

The option that seems most viable is to get an older large tractor with a backhoe attached to it. This should land me at around the same $8k cost (and keep the 3032e), but with a much larger and more capable machine that even if not ideal for digging, will certainly not be underpowered. The problem with those is that they are mainly 2wd so I would need to propel myself with a bucket once I get in the muck.

I've looked at all the threads that say to rent an excavator, but renting is only good when you have everything planned out and have a specific task at hand. For us, it's likely going to be a lot of trial and error until we figure out what works.

SNIP...

I'm in what's known as Florida flatwoods, so I have muck, sand, and a water table that's about 4 ft below the surface, so little point in digging below that.

I've had a lot of experience with hoes, and never thought I'd recommend a 3pt backhoe - but for what you want it is the perfect tool.
You've go the right type of soil and the right type of projects and the right tractor to use it on.
Getting the right 3pt hoe enables you to keep your tractor - Your JD is way too nice of a machine to just get rid of without giving it a chance.

I used to have a 3pt. mounted backhoe, on a 33 hp tractor and it did everything you want to do just fine. In fact, I've had several. The hoe doesn't have to be a JD; several companies make good ones. Yes, good 3pt hoes are expensive, but they maintain their value exceptionally well. If you use it a couple of years you may well find that you can get most or even all of your investment in the hoe back. Good quality used ones get snapped up quick.

You do want to find one that is heavily built and attaches to the tractor well. The very best ones have some sort of sub-frame to take the stress of the hoe. Yes, that means get a good one; not a cheap one. The good news is that your budget is reasonable. I get you can get a good 3pt hoe that fits that budget.
This all works especially well because you only need to dig to a relatively shallow depth. Hoes go way up in price when you start to want them to dig deeper. For what you want there are some nice 3pt hoes - Bradco is one - built real well but the trade-off is that they don't dig very deep.

The tractor hydrauics don't enter into the picture. Most 3pt backhoes - and especially the type you want - will have their own internal hydraulic pump and fluid reservoir which is driven from the tractor PTO.

A older used commercial TLB (tractor/loader/backhoe) is a reasonable option if you like to do mechanical projects. But know that by the time they get down to your budget they are going to require quite a bit of wrench work to get them up to a reasonable working condition - though if you enjoy wrench work it's an OK way to go.. And when you get it done you can sell off the 3pt backhoe that you used on your JD to get dirt work done while you played mechanic to the old TLB...
I know, because I've gone that route myself, some years ago I sold our 3pt backhoe and bought an older TLB with 6000 hrs on it. It's OK; not what I'd recommend for everyone. Not everyone enjoys doing mechanical work. For me, it's a hobby.

I hear you on not wanting to rent. I'm the same way. I like to work on a project when I want to, and not be constrained by having to go rent something.
Good luck,
rScotty

 

[ericm979]

I'd think hard about using a 3pt backhoe with no subframe. Supposedly they can be hard on the tractor, with some unfortunate people breaking their transmission cases. With how much my BH attachment moves my heavy Branson around, I can see how that might happen. And I think your Deere has an aluminium case.

Try checking around at Deere dealers for a used BH attachment with the subframe for your tractor. Sometimes people buy them with the tractor and don't use them much, or they trade in a tractor with a BH and the dealer splits them.

Your Deere has a 5.something gpm hydraulics. That's not as much as some other tractors, but it's the pressure that does the work. The flow determines how fast. Many people run their tractor at lower rpms to slow the BH down some. I've been running my Branson at 2000 rpm (PTO rpm is 2500) when using the BH. It's plenty fast for me as a novice BH operator.

 

[Diggin It]

I've had a lot of experience with hoes, and never thought I'd recommend a 3pt backhoe - but for what you want it is the perfect tool.
You've go the right type of soil and the right type of projects and the right tractor to use it on.
Getting the right 3pt hoe enables you to keep your tractor -

I'd suggest one of the sub $3K towable trenchers first.

 

[JohnFourteenSix]

I'd suggest one of the sub $3K towable trenchers first.

If you mean one of those harbor freight trenches, I've seen videos of them in operation. I don't see that working in my case; also the tires are way too small.

I should have also mentioned that while I do have sandy soil, I also have quite a bit of roots

 

[Carl_NH]

I agree with Eric on the flow rate 5GPM is sufficient to run the BH as you don't run the loader/BH at the same time and most of the time I run at 1500 RPM for most digging for smoother operation.

The 370 Deere BH is made for your machine and attaches to the frame of the tractor vs the 3PT arms and since it is built for your machine is the better choice as the dealer will stand behind it from a warranty perspective. Yes you can get a $6K or less unit, but the savings over time are nominal.

Also get a mechanical thumb - aftermarket are fine - they are invaluable for roots/stumps/palmetto you have there in FL.

On the used machines in your price range, unless you are very fortunate to find a low hour machine for $8-15K it will need care and attention as Rscotty states, so my vote is buy the 370.

 

[JohnFourteenSix]

So I tried digging around a bit more with the bucket, to remove my residual piles of dirt. My soil is technically "sand", but that's only after you get past the thick layer of muck that's sitting on top of it -- about a foot or so thick, and it gets everywhere and the most problematic areas (i.e. the ones I want to dig in) are perpetually soggy. It struggled to lift a bucket of that stuff. My gut tells me the 3032e machine is too weak. Is there another kind of test I can do?

 

[MossRoad]

I bought a used John Deere 3032e from a dealership a few months ago for $15000. It has low (<200) hours, and it's a very maneuverable machine. But I'm coming to realize I'm not using it for any of the tractor related tasks that people use tractors for. I have no grass to mow, no bales of hay, no plowing, tilling, etc. I graded my driveway once.

The main tasks I'm finding myself doing is trying to dig deep drainage trenches/swales, using a posthole digger for planting seedlings, and just digging in the ground for dirt and moving it around the property. I also have a few utility trenches (3 ft deep) that I need to dig. The tractor fails at all the tasks except for using the posthole digger.

Based on some research, it seems a mini excavator is the best tool for the job, but the pricing seems cost prohibitive, and I'd be losing the maneuverability and speed of the tractor (if I sell the 3032e to fund the excavator). I can't afford to spend another $15-20k+ on an excavator (I'm looking at 3 ton units). I've been looking at the JD 370B backhoe (made for my tractor), but that looks like another $8k, and I'm not sure if the tractor's hydraulics can really make it do a whole lot anyway. Furthermore, it seems like backhoe attachments don't retain their value as much as the actual tractor itself.

The option that seems most viable is to get an older large tractor with a backhoe attached to it. This should land me at around the same $8k cost (and keep the 3032e), but with a much larger and more capable machine that even if not ideal for digging, will certainly not be underpowered. The problem with those is that they are mainly 2wd so I would need to propel myself with a bucket once I get in the muck.

I've looked at all the threads that say to rent an excavator, but renting is only good when you have everything planned out and have a specific task at hand. For us, it's likely going to be a lot of trial and error until we figure out what works.

My overall budget is around 20-25k, and I need either one or two machines that can:

• Use posthole digger in tight areas
• Carry dirt around
• Carry stuff on forks (boxes, lumber, etc.)
• Dig 3-4 ft deep trenches in muck
• Excavate small retaining ponds in muck
• Perform some kind of grading

I'm in what's known as Florida flatwoods, so I have muck, sand, and a water table that's about 4 ft below the surface, so little point in digging below that.

How deep and how wide?

 

[Egon]

You will want to look at tractors with frame mounted removable backhoes.

 

[JohnFourteenSix]

How deep and how wide?

As deep and as narrow as I can get away with. Probably 4 ft deep, 1-2 ft wide. I might need to expand depending on erosion, or which drainage ditches are more effective at carrying water where.

 

[4570Man]

I've had a lot of experience with hoes, and never thought I'd recommend a 3pt backhoe - but for what you want it is the perfect tool.
You've go the right type of soil and the right type of projects and the right tractor to use it on.
Getting the right 3pt hoe enables you to keep your tractor - Your JD is way too nice of a machine to just get rid of without giving it a chance.

I used to have a 3pt. mounted backhoe, on a 33 hp tractor and it did everything you want to do just fine. In fact, I've had several. The hoe doesn't have to be a JD; several companies make good ones. Yes, good 3pt hoes are expensive, but they maintain their value exceptionally well. If you use it a couple of years you may well find that you can get most or even all of your investment in the hoe back. Good quality used ones get snapped up quick.

You do want to find one that is heavily built and attaches to the tractor well. The very best ones have some sort of sub-frame to take the stress of the hoe. Yes, that means get a good one; not a cheap one. The good news is that your budget is reasonable. I get you can get a good 3pt hoe that fits that budget.
This all works especially well because you only need to dig to a relatively shallow depth. Hoes go way up in price when you start to want them to dig deeper. For what you want there are some nice 3pt hoes - Bradco is one - built real well but the trade-off is that they don't dig very deep.

The tractor hydrauics don't enter into the picture. Most 3pt backhoes - and especially the type you want - will have their own internal hydraulic pump and fluid reservoir which is driven from the tractor PTO.

A older used commercial TLB (tractor/loader/backhoe) is a reasonable option if you like to do mechanical projects. But know that by the time they get down to your budget they are going to require quite a bit of wrench work to get them up to a reasonable working condition - though if you enjoy wrench work it's an OK way to go.. And when you get it done you can sell off the 3pt backhoe that you used on your JD to get dirt work done while you played mechanic to the old TLB...
I know, because I've gone that route myself, some years ago I sold our 3pt backhoe and bought an older TLB with 6000 hrs on it. It's OK; not what I'd recommend for everyone. Not everyone enjoys doing mechanical work. For me, it's a hobby.

I hear you on not wanting to rent. I'm the same way. I like to work on a project when I want to, and not be constrained by having to go rent something.
Good luck,
rScotty

3 point backhoe suck and are prone to ripping the toplink off. The better ones you speak of aren’t 3 point hoes. My Kubota L3240 had a less beefy but near identical 4 point mount as the M59s.

 

[finn1]

Tighten your belt and get a mini excavator. This is, first and foremost, a site that caters to devotees of compact and subcompact tractors, mostly weekend warriors, from what I can tell. Some members get very defensive about there equipment, but I personally found a compact tractor really isn’t the Ishtar tool for trenching and digging.

I bought a very small mini excavator (Deere 26G) after looking at backhoe attachments for my tractor as well as full sized backhoes. After the purchase of the mini I bought a tracked skid steer (CTL).

I put less than 15 hours on the tractor last spring, summer, and fall. The two new machines are superior to the tractor for all my work, except blowing snow. If I had a farm, though, the results would probably be different, but I don’t have a farm.

 

[MossRoad]

As deep and as narrow as I can get away with. Probably 4 ft deep, 1-2 ft wide. I might need to expand depending on erosion, or which drainage ditches are more effective at carrying water where.

The reason I ask is would a trencher be adequate for your trenching? A 6" wide trench 4' deep with a trencher would be a lot faster than a backhoe.

 

[JohnFourteenSix]

Tighten your belt and get a mini excavator. This is, first and foremost, a site that caters to devotees of compact and subcompact tractors, mostly weekend warriors, from what I can tell. Some members get very defensive about there equipment, but I personally found a compact tractor really isn’t the Ishtar tool for trenching and digging.

I bought a very small mini excavator (Deere 26G) after looking at backhoe attachments for my tractor as well as full sized backhoes. After the purchase of the mini I bought a tracked skid steer (CTL).

I put less than 15 hours on the tractor last spring, summer, and fall. The two new machines are superior to the tractor for all my work, except blowing snow. If I had a farm, though, the results would probably be different, but I don’t have a farm.

How much did that cost you? My budget is pretty firm on this. The machine you mentioned seems to go for 25k used, which is the limit of my budget. I would have nothing left for a tractor or CTL

The reason I ask is would a trencher be adequate for your trenching? A 6" wide trench 4' deep with a trencher would be a lot faster than a backhoe.

I was thinking about a ditch-witch type trencher, actually. I think the limitation is that I don't see how I could do multiple passes with such a machine to widen the trench without having something to actually dig up the soil that would fall into the trench. I actually did see a ditch witch + backhoe for sale for $3500 a few weeks ago and I've been regretting not having jumped on it.

 

[TractorGuy]

Not gonna get 4' deep with it but a trenching bucket might get you by.

 

[Cat_Driver]

Here's what I did one time.

I got a track skid steer loader, with a trencher attachment, and a backhoe attachment along with other attachments. This combo handled everything but growing crops or cutting grass which I wasn't doing anyway.

My CAT had in-cab controls so I would pull up to an attachment throw a button and unlatch that attachment move over pick up the next attachment and throw a button and lock it in never leaving the air-conditioned cab.

The lift capacity was amazing, and digging trenches with the trench floating over the sand I was working in was a breeze. I could dig a trench so much faster with a trencher over a back-hoe.

It was a 2006 CAT 286 that I used for 10 years and sold it for what I paid for it so the resale on that model was great.

 

[JohnFourteenSix]

Here's what I did one time.

I got a track skid steer loader, with a trencher attachment, and a backhoe attachment along with other attachments. This combo handled everything but growing crops or cutting grass which I wasn't doing anyway.

My CAT had in-cab controls so I would pull up to an attachment throw a button and unlatch that attachment move over pick up the next attachment and throw a button and lock it in never leaving the air-conditioned cab.

The lift capacity was amazing, and digging trenches with the trench floating over the sand I was working in was a breeze. I could dig a trench so much faster with a trencher over a back-hoe.

It was a 2006 CAT 286 that I used for 10 years and sold it for what I paid for it so the resale on that model was great.

How much would such a thing end up costing? It sounds like this is more of what I need, unless I can snatch that $6k TLB. One thing that concerns me about a skid steer is its low clearance, though. I don't know how it will be able to navigate in 12" of muck/mud. My JD does this effortlessly

 

[TractorGuy]

One of the old Vermeer or Ditch Witch trencher/backhoes may be just the ticket for you.

 

[fried1765]

You will want to look at tractors with frame mounted removable backhoes.

^^^^^YUP!