Tractor age, value, finding the right tractor and deciding what's a good deal

[CaptainRedbeard]

Hey.

After creeping around this forum for the past few months, I figured it was finally time to maybe solicit some help in my tractor search. Sorry if I'm a little all over the place.

Bought a farm last summer with my wife; 80 acres in the Appalachian Mountains. 20 acres are fielded bottom land, 50ish are wooded hills/hillside, and about 10 are made up of a 15 foot creek that splits the property.

So. I'm looking for a machine. Goal is the maintain and beautify the property, which will consist of putting in some culverts, brush hogging, tree clearing, putting in fence, reinforcing some creek banks, grading some field, and removing rocks in areas (100-500lbs, probably). My wife's horses (two) will also probably move to the property sometime in the next couple years, and I'd like to use a small chunk of the field for some specialty forage for my family at some point (alfalfa? who knows. novice in that area).

I'd prefer to stay under $15,000. We have a baby, and we are rebuilding our savings after buying the property.

Concerns: I know that my budget will limit things. I'm mechanically inclined, but I've never owned my own tractor and assume it will take time to learn to properly fix/maintain a tractor.

So. How much do you consider age when buying something? I've been browsing for a long time, and it seems like some utility tractors hit a certain price point and remain static, regardless of hours and age. I feel like I need mfwd and a fel, but it seems like those two desires really push my prices up to the limits of my comfort range, even for tractors that are 25-45 years old.

Example: I'm looking at a Case-IH 885 that looks like good condition, but is it worth $15,000 or are the FEL and mfwd combination and a lack of supply pushing the price to that limit? There is a 1970ish International 844s that is significantly cheaper that checks those two boxes, but I'm worried that I'd find myself with a project tractor that I don't have enough experience to keep up repairs on. I guess I'm not sure what I should be weighing as "most important" as I sift through what is available.

 

[fried1765]

Hey.

After creeping around this forum for the past few months, I figured it was finally time to maybe solicit some help in my tractor search. Sorry if I'm a little all over the place.

Bought a farm last summer with my wife; 80 acres in the Appalachian Mountains. 20 acres are fielded bottom land, 50ish are wooded hills/hillside, and about 10 are made up of a 15 foot creek that splits the property.

So. I'm looking for a machine. Goal is the maintain and beautify the property, which will consist of putting in some culverts, brush hogging, tree clearing, putting in fence, reinforcing some creek banks, grading some field, and removing rocks in areas (100-500lbs, probably). My wife's horses (two) will also probably move to the property sometime in the next couple years, and I'd like to use a small chunk of the field for some specialty forage for my family at some point (alfalfa? who knows. novice in that area).

I'd prefer to stay under $15,000. We have a baby, and we are rebuilding our savings after buying the property.

Concerns: I know that my budget will limit things. I'm mechanically inclined, but I've never owned my own tractor and assume it will take time to learn to properly fix/maintain a tractor.

So. How much do you consider age when buying something? I've been browsing for a long time, and it seems like some utility tractors hit a certain price point and remain static, regardless of hours and age. I feel like I need mfwd and a fel, but it seems like those two desires really push my prices up to the limits of my comfort range, even for tractors that are 25-45 years old.

Example: I'm looking at a Case-IH 885 that looks like good condition, but is it worth $15,000 or are the FEL and mfwd combination and a lack of supply pushing the price to that limit? There is a 1970ish International 844s that is significantly cheaper that checks those two boxes, but I'm worried that I'd find myself with a project tractor that I don't have enough experience to keep up repairs on. I guess I'm not sure what I should be weighing as "most important" as I sift through what is available.

If you have the free time, and mechanical ability, in my opinion, the older tractors are the way to go.
I have a 68 year old Ford 8N (you do not want one).
A 1970 Ford 3400 TLB,
And..... a 1989 Ford 1920 FEL.
The 8N is in excellent condition ( I have not started it in 2 years) and I have restored the 3400 TLB and the 1920 FEL to like new condition.
Only the 1920 is 4WD.

I am long retired, so time is unimportant to me.

I VERY much like the idea of NOT having electronic gadgetry, or pollution control garbage.
I can FIX my tractors MYSELF!
I do not care how far away the nearest dealer lives.
The nice man in the big brown delivery truck will bring me any parts I might need.

An older tractor in good mechanical condition holds it's value very well, as you will learn when trying to buy one.
An older tractor will depreciate very little!

 

[jeff9366]

Tractors have brakes only on the rear wheels.

You need 4-WD on slopes for some semblance of front wheel tractor braking moving downhill, when tractor weight is mostly on the front wheels.

Without 4-WD a tractor runaway is a distinct possibility.



If you add your LOCATION to your T-B-N PROFILE, so it shows in every post you author, one of your respondents may clue you in on a good used tractor in your area. This happens fairly regularly.


VIDEO: How To Evaluate A Used Tractor - YouTube

 

[TheMadOne]

Without seeing the listing myself, a 80HP MFWD tractor with FEL for 15K sounds like a very good deal.

That was made in Case's Doncaster plant. Pretty much everything that left that line was quality, though I'm not that read up on the 885 specifically.

A quick google calls out that they use a dry clutch, so be aware of that. Apparently there was an issue with the brakes taking on air, there seems to be a fix for it, so make sure it was done, if possible.

Which trans does that one have? There were a few that tractor was built with. A regular syncro trans was an option, alongside a partial powershift and a shuttle. For FEL work you want the shuttle. For tillage you want the powershift.

As for how much I consiter age when buying a tractor...I don't. If I was in a financial situation where I could pay cash I'd gladly have a 4020 or other old chunk of iron. Not sure what I'd do with such a beast on my property, but I'd take one over a CUT any day. Sadly, I'm stuck needing payments for the next few years, so my little L3560 will have to do.

 

[jeff9366]

How much do you consider age when buying something?

Engine hours are the key metric. WELL MAINTAINED diesel engined tractors may run 10,000 engine hours before major work is required. However, you will replace multiple rubber/fabric hydraulic lines and hydraulic cylinders, pound out sheet metal dents, weld broken bits before 10,000 hours pass.

Age, in years, primarily important relative to parts availability.

Try to find a one owner, inside stored, 4-WD tractor with a dealer reasonably close.

 

[airbiscuit]

So, you could get a bigger tractor (60hp+) for all your needs, including fieldwork and haying (more expensive implements and less agile)
or
You could get a newer 35-50hp compact utility tractor - and let someone else do the haying on shares (less work and expense). It takes a little doing to grow alfalfa right.

If you gave us an idea of your location, TBNrs could give you an idea of your options.

 

[searcyfarms]

if that IH 885 is in descent shape descent hours/ loader and 4wd then you should be in good shape all around, they have been good tractors from what i know from people that have had them and treated them well

 

[newbury]

<snip>

Bought a farm last summer with my wife; 80 acres in the Appalachian Mountains. 20 acres are fielded bottom land, 50ish are wooded hills/hillside, and about 10 are made up of a 15 foot creek that splits the property. <snip>

The mountain range is mostly in the United States (U.S.) but it extends into southeastern Canada, forming a zone from 100 to 300 mi (160 to 480 km) wide, running from the island of Newfoundland 1,500 mi (2,400 km) southwestward to Central Alabama in the United States.[

Your talking about a wide range of conditions. I own about 73 acre near the northern end and 400 acres near the south. Quite a range of climate. The main thing is snowfall and cold. I've seen 3 feet overnight in Vermont, never more than 3 inches in Mississippi. I've seen 40 below in Vermont, nothing below 0F in Mississippi.

However for tractor selection I've a few questions - is the $15K for the tractor? What about associated costs - attachments, chains, tools to fix it, maybe a truck and trailer to move it, maybe a shed to store it in and work on it in?

I was in a similar situation - Just bought a house, w/ sheds and 73 acres in Mississippi in 2012. Needed a bigger tractor, SWMBO and I decided on a $15K target price. I felt I needed a tractor that would lift a ton on the back and 1,000 lbs on the front. I've moderate wrenching skills. After about 6 months of looking I found

a 1995 Kubota M4700, 50HP, MFWD, 1400 hours for $11.5K. I quickly spent the other 3.5 K on attachments.

So if you have moderate wrenching skills you should be able to get a suitable tractor and maintain it for your 15K. But it's probably going to take some looking.

 

[Professor Marvel]

If you have the free time, and mechanical ability, in my opinion, the older tractors are the way to go.
I have a 68 year old Ford 8N (you do not want one).
A 1970 Ford 3400 TLB,
And..... a 1989 Ford 1920 FEL.
The 8N is in excellent condition ( I have not started it in 2 years) and I have restored the 3400 TLB and the 1920 FEL to like new condition.
Only the 1920 is 4WD.

I am long retired, so time is unimportant to me.

I VERY much like the idea of NOT having electronic gadgetry, or pollution control garbage.
I can FIX my tractors MYSELF!
I do not care how far away the nearest dealer lives.
The nice man in the big brown delivery truck will bring me any parts I might need.

An older tractor in good mechanical condition holds it's value very well, as you will learn when trying to buy one.
An older tractor will depreciate very little!

YES THIS!!

 

[jaxs]

I advise hireing haying or better still,buy hay,require's too many empliments plus lots of knowledge/rxperience for diy. Hireing a pro with heavy equipment to get place in shape is a reasonable move and take's owning above 60 hp off the table. You say you are mechanically inclined,can you troubleshoot and repair automobiles built before 1975 without help/advice? I can,and all my machines are vintage BUT non are diesel. Basic troubleshooting diesel isn't bad but far more knowledge,experience and specialized tools are reforquired for repair than gasoline. Few owners can teardown their diesel engine. Paid for meals,beer and even overnight lodging for an experienced tractor gearhead going to look is worth 20 times what it cost's you. In view of the large % here owning tractors built overseas,I'll likely get flamed but
I'm convinced vintage domestic is by far better investment than newer foreign. To help you decide for yourself,look at for sale ads on NON_RUNNING tractors and note the number of each then consider how many were built.

 

[CaptainRedbeard]

Ugh. Got caught up in work and baby, and didn't follow up on my post. Sorry!

Tractors have brakes only on the rear wheels.

You need 4-WD on slopes for some semblance of front wheel tractor braking moving downhill, when tractor weight is mostly on the front wheels.

Without 4-WD a tractor runaway is a distinct possibility.



If you add your LOCATION to your T-B-N PROFILE, so it shows in every post you author, one of your respondents may clue you in on a good used tractor in your area. This happens fairly regularly.


VIDEO: How To Evaluate A Used Tractor - YouTube

Thanks for the video link. I updated my profile; I was definitely keeping things vague.

I'm in West Virginia, which has basically become a rainforest over the past five years. Paired with our rolling hills, I feel like 4wd is going to be a must.

Without seeing the listing myself, a 80HP MFWD tractor with FEL for 15K sounds like a very good deal.

That was made in Case's Doncaster plant. Pretty much everything that left that line was quality, though I'm not that read up on the 885 specifically.

A quick google calls out that they use a dry clutch, so be aware of that. Apparently there was an issue with the brakes taking on air, there seems to be a fix for it, so make sure it was done, if possible.

Which trans does that one have? There were a few that tractor was built with. A regular syncro trans was an option, alongside a partial powershift and a shuttle. For FEL work you want the shuttle. For tillage you want the powershift.

As for how much I consiter age when buying a tractor...I don't. If I was in a financial situation where I could pay cash I'd gladly have a 4020 or other old chunk of iron. Not sure what I'd do with such a beast on my property, but I'd take one over a CUT any day. Sadly, I'm stuck needing payments for the next few years, so my little L3560 will have to do.

Thanks for the advice. The Case actually sold shortly after it was listed. I suspect most older tractors in good shape fly off the market pretty quickly. I think those Cases were powershift.

You've echoed some advise others have given me; go with something older and heavier that you can buy parts for.

So, you could get a bigger tractor (60hp+) for all your needs, including fieldwork and haying (more expensive implements and less agile)
or
You could get a newer 35-50hp compact utility tractor - and let someone else do the haying on shares (less work and expense). It takes a little doing to grow alfalfa right.

If you gave us an idea of your location, TBNrs could give you an idea of your options.

This...is actually pretty good advice. It reminds me of a book about a grass fed beef operation in eastern WV/Northern VA. They sold all their hay equipment and just started buying it instead, and found they were saving thousands of dollars each year after factoring in time, diesel, and repairs.

Updated my location, thanks for the tip. I'm in North-Central WV.

Your talking about a wide range of conditions. I own about 73 acre near the northern end and 400 acres near the south. Quite a range of climate. The main thing is snowfall and cold. I've seen 3 feet overnight in Vermont, never more than 3 inches in Mississippi. I've seen 40 below in Vermont, nothing below 0F in Mississippi.

However for tractor selection I've a few questions - is the $15K for the tractor? What about associated costs - attachments, chains, tools to fix it, maybe a truck and trailer to move it, maybe a shed to store it in and work on it in?

I was in a similar situation - Just bought a house, w/ sheds and 73 acres in Mississippi in 2012. Needed a bigger tractor, SWMBO and I decided on a $15K target price. I felt I needed a tractor that would lift a ton on the back and 1,000 lbs on the front. I've moderate wrenching skills. After about 6 months of looking I found
View attachment 597382 View attachment 597383
a 1995 Kubota M4700, 50HP, MFWD, 1400 hours for $11.5K. I quickly spent the other 3.5 K on attachments.

So if you have moderate wrenching skills you should be able to get a suitable tractor and maintain it for your 15K. But it's probably going to take some looking.

Ha, you are correct. Appalachia means a lot of different things to a lot of folk. Updated my profile - I'm in north-central WV (2 hours south of Pittsburgh).

I'm a little lucky that I've got a father-in-law with a relatively large farm, tractor experience, and tools, as well as a brother that has started his own operation. While I could borrow them for hauling, I would need to buy most of my own implements. I'm hoping that will be spread out over a couple of years, but a brush hog and either FEL with a decent bucket or plow are pretty high on the list.

My main concerns are the hills, erosion prevention and muddy terrain (we've had extremely high levels of rain the last five years), and some general earth moving. I don't see alfalfa as being something serious for several years down the road. It's just a pet project I've wanted to try out for awhile.

I advise hireing haying or better still,buy hay,require's too many empliments plus lots of knowledge/rxperience for diy. Hireing a pro with heavy equipment to get place in shape is a reasonable move and take's owning above 60 hp off the table. You say you are mechanically inclined,can you troubleshoot and repair automobiles built before 1975 without help/advice? I can,and all my machines are vintage BUT non are diesel. Basic troubleshooting diesel isn't bad but far more knowledge,experience and specialized tools are reforquired for repair than gasoline. Few owners can teardown their diesel engine. Paid for meals,beer and even overnight lodging for an experienced tractor gearhead going to look is worth 20 times what it cost's you. In view of the large % here owning tractors built overseas,I'll likely get flamed but
I'm convinced vintage domestic is by far better investment than newer foreign. To help you decide for yourself,look at for sale ads on NON_RUNNING tractors and note the number of each then consider how many were built.

Another member had the same advice, and it definitely makes sense. I'll have to check in the area to see if anyone would be willing to put it up for me.

And your thoughts on repairs are similar to mine...When it comes to general household maintenance, working on cars, that sort of thing, I can usually repair anything myself (I've torn down engines/trannies that sort of thing), but I have zero confidence when it comes to hydraulics and diesels. I just haven't had to work in that area before.

My father in law says "look for a ford someone's grandpa kept in a shed and pulled out a few times a year." Problem is, prices seem to show that others value that same kind of tractor.

 

[shooterdon]

If buying used, you need patience.

Some units get abused but many owners put less than 100 hrs a year on their machines, so wear is hardly ever a factor. I have a 1988 JD 855 that runs very well but needed quite a bit of work.

BTW, I am selling it to upgrade because I need more capacity and want SSQA. I bought it last year and have had two dealers offer me more than I have into it. My point is even if you buy the "wrong" size used tractor, you will not lose much or any money on it.

Now, a new machine has the advantage of a warranty and typically 0% financing. You will take a hit if you buy the "wrong" new machine and trade it in a couple of years. But if you are over 40 years old, it will last your lifetime.

 

[dodge man]

Like someone else said let someone else do the hay. Unless you like the hobby farm idea and have a lot of free time. I personally would steer you into a smaller tractor maybe less than 50 hp and something newer. In a few years you will have a better handle on what you need.

If you have worked on cars a lot you will get along with tractors fine. I was in the same boat 10 years ago and normal maintenance is easy but I have not had to do a lot of big repairs.

 

[tradosaurus]

A few tractor mfg's have 0% interest up to 5 yrs. If you can afford the monthly payment, buy a new tractor and then use your cash for implements.

 

[CaptainRedbeard]

alrightalright. I'll ask this knowing there are red flags on several issues here, but I'm intrigued nonetheless.

What do you think something like this is worth? Seems like kind of an orphan (McCormick pieces and this model in particular seem hard to find), and looks like it was worked hard and abused a bit. And I'd have to find a loader to fit.

https://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/31033495/2003-mccormick-gx45

 

[dodge man]

I think finding a loader woukd be tough.

 

[Tennsawdust]

alrightalright. I'll ask this knowing there are red flags on several issues here, but I'm intrigued nonetheless.

What do you think something like this is worth? Seems like kind of an orphan (McCormick pieces and this model in particular seem hard to find), and looks like it was worked hard and abused a bit. And I'd have to find a loader to fit.

https://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/31033495/2003-mccormick-gx45

There isn't much of the smaller Argo equipment in the US. You have some McCormick dealers in your area so support is possible. Parts can probably be had, but may take some time and will probably be expensive (this is an Italian built tractor so you may have to wait for parts to ship from Europe). Putting a loader on it may be a problem. It is probably a good tractor, but it stands a good chance of being like buying a high mileage Mercedes. You'll love it until you find out what it costs to keep it up.

 

[jeff9366]

Seems like an orphan (McCormick pieces and this model in particular seem hard to find), that was worked hard and abused a bit. And I'd have to find a loader to fit.

I'm mechanically inclined, but I've never owned owned a tractor and assume it will take time to learn to properly fix/maintain a tractor.

Bought an 80 acre farm in the Appalachian Mountains. 20 acres are fielded bottom land, 50ish are wooded hills/hillside, and 10 are a 15 foot creek that splits the property.

The description says front tires are foam filled. This is not foam as non-tractor people would think of foam, it is highly dense and adheres to rims. Rear tires are inflated with air. If you add a Loader you may have to replace the front wheels and tires in order to have traction with the air inflated rear tires. It takes considerable traction to push a Loader into a pile of dirt.

With foamed front tires and air inflated rears, I speculate downhill braking would be inadequate.

I do not think I have ever seen a tractor with front fenders. May indicate that tractor ran on roads at 20+ mph. If so, you need to check 4-WD function extra carefully.

A new, aftermarket Loader should be easy to find but cost would exceed $7,000. Nothing in the description states tractor is plumbed for a Loader. Potential cost to add the required hydraulic FEL parts could be $1,000 ~~~~ or zero.

A used Loader might take years to find. And if any component of a tractor/loader is abused, it is the Loader.

 

[CaptainRedbeard]

The description says front tires are foam filled. This is not foam as non-tractor people would think of foam, it is highly dense and adheres to rims. Rear tires are inflated with air. If you add a Loader you may have to replace the front wheels and tires in order to have traction with the air inflated rear tires. It takes considerable traction to push a Loader into a pile of dirt.

With foamed front tires and air inflated rears, I speculate downhill braking would be inadequate.

A new, aftermarket Loader should be easy to find but cost would exceed $7,000. Nothing in the description states tractor is plumbed for a Loader. Potential cost to add the required hydraulic FEL parts could be $1,000 ~~~~ or zero.

A used Loader might take years to find. And if any component of a tractor/loader is abused, it is the Loader.

Now THAT is the kind of analysis I was looking for to dissuade me. Thank you.

I hadn稚 heard of foam filled tires until I started shopping around. Is the only advantage to prevent flats?

 

[jeff9366]

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