Need some tire advice / recomendations

[neopheous]

Ok.... Well I have a 2005 Triton trailer, aluminum frame with the marine grade plywood decking. I think it is a UT128, or similar.... but the issue is I was going on a trip that would be about 700 miles round trip, and would be hauling back about 700#'s of equipment. So before going I checked the existing tires and seen although they were hardly worn, they were 8 yrs old so I decided to replace them before heading out. So I purchased two brand new tires, seen here: Loadstar K399 Bias Trailer Tire - 25/65-1 - Load Range E Kenda Tires and Wheels AM1HP56 . I had them both mounted and balanced and hit the road a couple weeks later. I had verified that I was running 90 PSI in each both on the trip to/from the destination.

I was about an hour and 1/2 from home doing 70MPH in the middle lane of a 6-lane highway when without any warning, blew the drivers side trailer tire. Thankful to God that I was able to get to the side of the freeway without any incident other than a blown tire. Well, and it also shattered my aluminum rim when it blew, not to mention it blew/backed off all 5 lug nuts which were now scattered over a 300 yard stretch of freeway.... one of which being a lock/star lug nut...

So, after calling etrailer - well first I called AAA of which I have a Premier account... and they simply said, tough luck it is on a trailer and your Premier account doesn't cover that... you need the RV package as well.. Huh, I don't own an RV??? So, just an FYI to others, if you tow a trailer and you have AAA, you HAVE to have the RV package for them to dispatch help for any trailer issue... but I digress.

So I actually was able to get the tire replaced, with the Good Lord's help and a LOT of praying.... It's a little unnerving lying on your back 4-5 feet from 70 MPH semi's going by....

BUT my question after speaking with etrailer, and them telling me I should not be running bias tires on long trips, but should be running radials.... I can find NO ONE that makes a radial tire in a 205/65-10... Does anyone else know of anyone? I had thought about upgrading to the 12" rims and tires which I can get radials in, but I don't know if I would have the clearance.... it doesn't look like it to me, or it would be pretty close. Unless someone else has done this... or I guess I could if they have some sort of spacer kit for the axle.

The issue right now is I DO NOT trust the other brand new tire I have on there. I will simply make it a spare. Any advice concerning what tires to run on this type trailer would be much appreciated. I probably only use the trailer 3-4 times a year, and that for 20-30 miles trips, but I want a tire that I can use anytime, for any distance. Thanks!

 

[Redlands Okie]

Hmm, there is a good chance the lug nuts came loose and then the tire started to come off and blew. Or the lug bolts broke due to being over tight.

Hard to tell the difference when it happens. A blown tire does not usually cause any lug bolt or nut issues in my experience. Not saying it happened that way, just something to look into. It’s really common to have the lug nuts improperly tightened.

Can also likely get a tire that will fit your rims that just a bit different size in a radial.

I personally have 6 trailors and 3 of them are pulled on a almost daily basis with full construction type loads. If it can go wrong I have probably learned about it.............

 

[timswi]

I agree with redlands..I've blown a few trailer tires and never had the lug nuts come off. Believe he may be correct that the wheel may have come loose first. I have load stars on my TT and they have been fine, radials though.

 

[TMGT]

What is the pressure rating of the aluminum wheels you're using? Is it possible the wheel failed first?
I've seen a pretty wide range of quality on aluminum trailer wheels and have been surprised that many are rated for pressures lower then the tires used.

 

[neopheous]

Yeah, I thought it strange as well that the lug nuts were all off, and they weren’t stripped. A couple of them were a little rough when putting them back on, so I thought possibly they had loosened as well, but I would have thought there would have been wheel wobble prior and I had no indication anything was wrong prior to the blowout. The other thing was I walked back about 100 yards and found 2 of the 5 nuts on the side of the road and thought I seen a couple more but couldn’t get across the lanes of traffic to be sure. That led me to believe they all came off at once which I would find strange unless they were somehow spun off all at once.
Not sure on the rim pressure ratings as they were on it when I purchased the trailer about 5 years ago. I plan on putting new steel rims and tires back on but I would rather have radials but just can’t find them in a 205/65-10.

 

[Turbys_1700]

I would upgrade to 12" rims to get the radials. I have lots of experience blowing out 15" trailer tires mounted to a 5th wheel camper. They were all ST rated tires inflated to the max. Still didn't matter. They still blew out. ST tire standards are rated at 65 mph. I see that those 10" tires are rated to 87 mph. IMHO the standards for trailer tires are woefully inadequate. My issues were with heat build up at highway speeds in the summer. ST tires do not hold up in those circumstances. A radial will do better.

 

[Reg]

Loose lug nuts were almost certainly the root cause.
Yes, steel and aluminum have different (VERY different) coefficients of thermal expansion and you might EXPECT that to result in an apparent tightening of the nuts as everything warms up.
I'd bet they weren't torqued to spec and/or not re-torqued as recommended after the first few (usually 50) miles.
We (/you) ignore that recommendation at our own risk.

 

[neopheous]

I agree, it is the fact that I do not believe I would have sufficient clearance with the 12" unless Triton makes a kit for that....

 

[neopheous]

Well, I am not saying it isn't. However I did torque them to spec, but I did not recheck them after the initial 50 miles... or the over 500 miles for that matter before the failure. I would like to believe that is the issue, as I would feel better about the bias tires. As far as heat, the outside temps were around 50 degrees giver or take 5 degrees, so I would not have thought there should have been excessive heat buildup...

Here is the other thing though that bothers me about saying the lug nuts came off prior and that caused the blowout.... I did NOT loose the tire off of the rim... in fact after jacking it up the rim was placed on the axle with all of the lug bolts showing normally as if I had just placed it on there and was ready to put the nuts back on. I would have thought that if it was b/c the lugs were off that the wheel would have came off the axle/studs or at least be cockeyed on it.... It also blew/lost the outside bearing cap and had slung bearing grease all over the inside of the rim.... which again seems strange as I would have thought for the grease to have been slung INSIDE the rim the rim would have had to been off the studs and somewhat protruding over the end of the axle bearing.

The other thing with the tires I put on there, the etrailer guy said those were made for "off-road" and "agricultural use"... which when I went back and read the description that is what it said... which I found strange on a tire with a speed rating of N (87 MPH)… the load rating of E (1650 lbs) I get.. but not the other.

 

[thekkfan]

I think you had two problems- one is the nuts not being tight for them to be blown off. Second is either a defective tire or rim.

As for etrailers advise- try telling all those pop up campers with that tire size they shouldn't go far from home with a bias. :laughing: Guess they should camp at a neighbor's house.

One thing no one ever wants to hear when hauling- stay under the speed limit. I see these folks running 75 with a 30ft camper behind a half ton truck or SUV. Talk about the tail wagging the dog....

Maybe buy a high cap set like those in link and use the old one as spare would be my choice.

25/65-1 LRE 1 PR Kenda Loadstar Bias Trailer Tire on 1" 5 Lug Series S5 Gunmetal w/ Machined Lip

 

[KennyG]

Just a caution. If the lug nuts came loose, even if the bolts seem ok, the rims may have worn bolt holes. Not easy to see but they will come loose much easier in the future if the holes are worn. I would replace the rim on any road vehicle that has had the lug nuts come loose.

 

[TMGT]

Just a caution. If the lug nuts came loose, even if the bolts seem ok, the rims may have worn bolt holes. Not easy to see but they will come loose much easier in the future if the holes are worn. I would replace the rim on any road vehicle that has had the lug nuts come loose.

Agreed, but I dont think he has to worry about that since the wheel shattered.

OP, do you have any pictures of the shattered wheel?

 

[neopheous]

I think you had two problems- one is the nuts not being tight for them to be blown off. Second is either a defective tire or rim.

As for etrailers advise- try telling all those pop up campers with that tire size they shouldn't go far from home with a bias. :laughing: Guess they should camp at a neighbor's house.

One thing no one ever wants to hear when hauling- stay under the speed limit. I see these folks running 75 with a 30ft camper behind a half ton truck or SUV. Talk about the tail wagging the dog....

Maybe buy a high cap set like those in link and use the old one as spare would be my choice.

25/65-1 LRE 1 PR Kenda Loadstar Bias Trailer Tire on 1" 5 Lug Series S5 Gunmetal w/ Machined Lip

Well I always thought the same thing regarding bias tires, that it should not have been an issue... especially based on my trailer weight/load and traveling speed based on the tire ratings which I had purchased. Which I would actually deem them better than the ones in the link you provided, as far as tire specs, not the rims.

I am still leaning toward going to the 12" rims/radial tires.... from the specs it appears they would only be an inch or less larger in diameter and I believe that would work on this trailer.... Would be nice to know if anyone else has done that before on this particular trailer.

 

[neopheous]

Agreed, but I dont think he has to worry about that since the wheel shattered.

OP, do you have any pictures of the shattered wheel?

You are correct, it did shatter.... and concerning this, I am more concerned about needing to replace the lug studs on the axle itself as a couple of those I couldn't spin the lug nut on by hand all the way but had to use the lug wrench as them seemed to possibly be somewhat scarred, or boogered up a little.

I don't have any pics on me, but I will take a couple this evening, as well as the trailer itself and the other rim that is still in working order.

 

[wagne223]

I think you had two problems- one is the nuts not being tight for them to be blown off. Second is either a defective tire or rim.

As for etrailers advise- try telling all those pop up campers with that tire size they shouldn't go far from home with a bias. :laughing: Guess they should camp at a neighbor's house.

One thing no one ever wants to hear when hauling- stay under the speed limit. I see these folks running 75 with a 30ft camper behind a half ton truck or SUV. Talk about the tail wagging the dog....

Maybe buy a high cap set like those in link and use the old one as spare would be my choice.

25/65-1 LRE 1 PR Kenda Loadstar Bias Trailer Tire on 1" 5 Lug Series S5 Gunmetal w/ Machined Lip

I'm with you on the speed.
On a good road or highway with a load, I limit my speed to 65 mph. I will occasionally go to 70 to pass if necessary then right back to 65.

Rough roads or bridges with uneven expansion joints, down to 55 mph or less if needed.

I haul 7500 lbs around 4000 miles per year.
Knock on wood, I have never had a blowout.
I have had flats and one bearing failure. Both times i was warned by the smoke. I saw it and stopped prior to any major damage.

I run bias tires on steel wheels at 60 psi.

 

[ddbackhoe]

What is the pressure rating of the aluminum wheels you're using? Is it possible the wheel failed first?
I've seen a pretty wide range of quality on aluminum trailer wheels and have been surprised that many are rated for pressures lower then the tires used.

That’s a good angle to peruse. A little looking and it seems that the ut128 trailer parts diagram shows tire, 20.5 x 8.0 which indicates an 8 rim, right? The tires chosen however say to mount on a 6 rim.

 

[neopheous]

I'm with you on the speed.
On a good road or highway with a load, I limit my speed to 65 mph. I will occasionally go to 70 to pass if necessary then right back to 65.

Rough roads or bridges with uneven expansion joints, down to 55 mph or less if needed.

I haul 7500 lbs around 4000 miles per year.
Knock on wood, I have never had a blowout.
I have had flats and one bearing failure. Both times i was warned by the smoke. I saw it and stopped prior to any major damage.

I run bias tires on steel wheels at 60 psi.

Again, I was doing 70, on tires rated at 87.... This is a light duty trailer with only about 700#'s on it.... I DO go slower when I am pulling my 20' tandam axle 10K trailer with 7,000 - 8,000#'s on it.... I rarely ever take it above 55. But with an aluminum utility trailer with no more than a golf cart and a washer and dryer on it.... I do not see 70 MPH as being excessive.... at least not on freeways listing the speed limit at 70-75 MPH. I'm not saying it is safer running 70 vs 55, but I think that is true also of a passenger vehicle towing nothing.

I really am just trying to determine if I would be better off going to a 12" radial, or just stick with the 10" bias tires. I had owned this trailer for 5 years and had NO issues with the existing tires that were on it, and several trips of 2-3 hours with double that weight. Just sort of unsettling when I put brand new tires on it when making a longer trip as to NOT have this happen, and it does anywho...

 

[neopheous]

That’s a good angle to peruse. A little looking and it seems that the ut128 trailer parts diagram shows tire, 20.5 x 8.0 which indicates an 8 rim, right? The tires chosen however say to mount on a 6 rim.

Well, I need to verify the model, as the 10" rims were the original, so it is probably not the UT128... I will look this evening and correct that. However, speaking of rims and weight limits… I assume, this is just like axles... so if you have rims that are rated at 900#'s, that means you should be able to carry a load of 1,800#'s if a single axle, correct? The reason I ask, is b/c the highest weight rating I seen on 10 or 12" rims were like 1250#'s and this trailer is supposedly designed to carry up to 1,660#'s.

 

[wagne223]

Again, I was doing 70, on tires rated at 87.... This is a light duty trailer with only about 700#'s on it.... I DO go slower when I am pulling my 20' tandam axle 10K trailer with 7,000 - 8,000#'s on it.... I rarely ever take it above 55. But with an aluminum utility trailer with no more than a golf cart and a washer and dryer on it.... I do not see 70 MPH as being excessive.... at least not on freeways listing the speed limit at 70-75 MPH. I'm not saying it is safer running 70 vs 55, but I think that is true also of a passenger vehicle towing nothing.

I really am just trying to determine if I would be better off going to a 12" radial, or just stick with the 10" bias tires. I had owned this trailer for 5 years and had NO issues with the existing tires that were on it, and several trips of 2-3 hours with double that weight. Just sort of unsettling when I put brand new tires on it when making a longer trip as to NOT have this happen, and it does anywho...

Sir, I was not criticizing your driving style.
I was just making a general point agreeing with another member post.

In your case, we are all speculating.

I will say that if the lug nuts are no longer in position, that is the likely cause of all your damage.

Several reasons for lug nuts to come loose.

.improperly torqued and not retorqued at 50 miles or so.

.wheel improperly fit to hub or debris preventing proper fitment. This makes the nuts seem torqued but as the wheel and hub move, they seat together, closing the gap and essentially causing the nuts to be loose.

.hub bearing failure causing excessive heat to the wheel, studs and nuts.

.Aluminum wheels are greatly more susceptible to all of these issues.

 

[TMGT]

Well, I need to verify the model, as the 10" rims were the original, so it is probably not the UT128... I will look this evening and correct that. However, speaking of rims and weight limits… I assume, this is just like axles... so if you have rims that are rated at 900#'s, that means you should be able to carry a load of 1,800#'s if a single axle, correct? The reason I ask, is b/c the highest weight rating I seen on 10 or 12" rims were like 1250#'s and this trailer is supposedly designed to carry up to 1,660#'s.

Correct, it's the sum of the wheels capacity.
Your failure seems odd, I think we are just trying to help you figure out if this is an anomaly due to bad parts or an inherent problem of the tire type/size.

The fact that you were able to recover lugnuts and 2 were together makes me wonder, I've had lugs back off and even studs break, I've rarely found a lug much less multiple lugs together.

My worst was a F550 pulling a gooseneck with about 12k lbs on the trucks rear axle, all 8 studs on the left rear broke, at 60+mph. Needless to say I didn't recover any lug nuts, or the outer wheel/tire!