Propane Tank - What to do

[hawkeye08]

We have a 1000 gallon tank and propane company said they can put a LP valve on it (guy explained that is basically a new valve that has a pipe inside tank that gets liquid from the bottom part of the tank (not vapor), it said it would cost about $200 in parts, plus some time). Our BBQs and travel trailer don't use much propane so have not looked into actually getting it done. He did say also that they won't put the valve in for filling the BBQ tanks, you have to have a reason (like a tractor). I have a forklift that runs on propane and he said that is justification enough.

Just be careful, stay safe.

 

[Wilco]

Have to admit I learned something today. I've never seen a tank with a liquid valve set-up on it. Just watched a video and it was referred to as a nursing tank. Interesting....guess they're not popular in my area.

 

[LouNY]

They where common on farms in the mid-west for tractors in the 50 and 60's and a few in the 70's.
Also quite a few people had them for pickups where propane was reasonably priced.
Many of those systems are still in use.

If I was going to run a good sized propane generator I would have one with a liquid feed and local vaporizer.
More of an industrial set up.

 

[aczlan]

What you say is very true. But I have one question.
How many readers on here have ever run a propane fueled tractor, of those how many have ever refilled it.

I run propane powered equipment on occasion and I refill tanks every so often.
I also through the propane tank refill training done by our propane supplier every year.

Also the old way is not the acceptable way any more, they want you to have a pump and pump into your tank without venting it.

Odd, our propane supplier at work (we have a large tank with a pump to refill 33#/43# tanks setup for liquid feed) says to vent a little bit while filling and stop when the liquid reaches the diptube for the vent (causing liquid to come out the vent).

Aaron Z

 

[LouNY]

Per the DEC your not supposed to vent any more in this wonderous state.
All portable tanks are to be filled by weight including your forklift or manlift tanks.
Had that go round about 3-4 years ago getting a propane Farmall 400 filled.
The way you are doing it is much easier and it's the way I have always done it.
Also the only way I know to do tanks that can't be weighed.

 

[ultrarunner]

Some people do this and some do it safely. The ones that do not do it safely make the news. Liquid propane is dangerous I have been handling it for 40 years and would recommend you do not do this. No matter how easy it is made out to be it is still inherently dangerous I cannot imagine the liability or what the insurance adjuster would say.....you did what ? Liquid propane expands 272 time when vaporizing. If you cannot find someone to safely evacuate the tank PM me and I will help you. I market propane all over the USA

I had mother nature intervene and lost over 400 gallons...

A black bear decided the tank was a good place to climb and sprawl out and snapped off the line venting a full 500 gallon tank to atmosphere.

A neighbor at some distance smelled the propane but by that time the tank had emptied.

Starting in 1964 the propane and pilots were left on at the cabin... since then I only have the propane on when I am there... error on the side of caution... or so I thought.

I own the tank and the cabin is paid for... got a letter from the propane dealer which said Home Owner may NEVER turn on a tank once it has been turned off???

I light pilot lights and leak check appliances all the time as part of my day job as well as install gas appliances and never had anyone tell me this is forbidden except for my propane dealer???

PS... since I now turn off the propane… usage has gone from $800 annually to $25

 

[Threepoint]

[snip]
I own the tank and the cabin is paid for... got a letter from the propane dealer which said Home Owner may NEVER turn on a tank once it has been turned off???

I light pilot lights and leak check appliances all the time as part of my day job as well as install gas appliances and never had anyone tell me this is forbidden except for my propane dealer???

PS... since I now turn off the propane usage has gone from $800 annually to $25

The letter from the dealer is pretty curious! :shocked: Did they say why you shouldn't turn off the tank? Was it the main shut-off at the tank's regulator itself? Although I don't see why that should make a difference, unless there is some concern about something happening in the downstream lines if not constantly in use. Couldn't you just turn off the individual supply valve at each respective appliance? :scratchchin:

 

[pmsmechanic]

The letter from the dealer is pretty curious! :shocked: Did they say why you shouldn't turn off the tank? Was it the main shut-off at the tank's regulator itself? Although I don't see why that should make a difference, unless there is some concern about something happening in the downstream lines if not constantly in use. Couldn't you just turn off the individual supply valve at each respective appliance? :scratchchin:

My guess is the reason ultrarunner was using so much gas is because there is a leak somewhere. If there is a small leak in the line, turning each individual appliance off isn't going to help as the line still has pressure in it. I run into this issue with my holiday trailer. If I leave the line pressurized the bottle is soon empty. There is no smell of propane anywhere. If I turn the gas off at the bottle there is still gas next spring.

I.m pretty sure the letter from the dealer was just a scare/money making thing.

 

[ultrarunner]

The letter from the dealer is pretty curious! :shocked: Did they say why you shouldn't turn off the tank? Was it the main shut-off at the tank's regulator itself? Although I don't see why that should make a difference, unless there is some concern about something happening in the downstream lines if not constantly in use. Couldn't you just turn off the individual supply valve at each respective appliance? :scratchchin:

Shutting off the tank is OK... it is turning on the tank that it a problem and per the Dealer requires a Mandated inspection of all propane appliances onsite for a fee of course.

The reason I shut the tank off at the tank is to prevent a repeat of the bear incident... the bear actually damaged the piping twice... one time the tank was fill and the line was snapped.

The second time the tank was off and the bear broke the line again... I have seen the bear in the yard... also tore siding off the cabin.

As long as the bears are protected and homeowners are limited too defensive measures such as plate steel enclosures and electric fences... I don't see the problem improving as the population increases.

Can you imagine if I had an electric fence with 400+ gallons of propane vapor?

The letter came after the supplier came by to top off the tank as we have auto fill... tech noted the main valve closed and tank at 81%... it was the main valve being closed that generated the letter.

 

[daybreak1998]

Howdy,

I think the OP was looking for a little more info.

A propane dealer will evacuate the tank. For a fee. Trip charge, tech, etc... LPG recovery fee. And they will pay you about 40-50% price for propane recovered. They win all the way around.

The best bet would to use it all up one way or another.

 

[ultrarunner]

My guess is the reason ultrarunner was using so much gas is because there is a leak somewhere. If there is a small leak in the line, turning each individual appliance off isn't going to help as the line still has pressure in it. I run into this issue with my holiday trailer. If I leave the line pressurized the bottle is soon empty. There is no smell of propane anywhere. If I turn the gas off at the bottle there is still gas next spring.

I.m pretty sure the letter from the dealer was just a scare/money making thing.

The furnace has a very strong standing pilot to combat the Sierra Winds and was set at 40F to prevent freezing... the stove has 5 pilots... each burner plus the oven and then the water heater was kept on pilot all winter... amazing just how much heat a pilot light can heat 30 gallons of water in the dead of winter...

The $800 is based on propane at nearly $3 a gallon when all was said in done.

My grandmother always used a match to light the burners... then the propane company was required to upgrade a valve for snow to all subscribers... the tech came in and said he could not leave on the stove unless it was in proper working order with all pilots lit and performance verified...

The sister in laws are already skittish cooking on gas... they all grew up with electric...

 

[Gary Fowler]

Gary, I'm talking about the liquid withdrawal port...not the relief valve. That's the only port on the tank for liquid. And I say again DON'T mess with this.Your talking about connecting to the fill port which is a vapor port.

Not talking about hooking to vapor port to use for filling a tank. I am saying that you hook up to the Liquid discharge port. You can hook to the vapor port to run your BBQ if you want.

Your propane distributor might supply the parts and hook up the fill hose and valves if you ask them. You might have to lie a bit and say that you are buying a propane tractor and need to refill its tank.

 

[Threepoint]

Ultrarunner, thanks for filling us in on the dealer...and the bears!

For several years my son lived in a back-country area in a make-shift cabin, about a mile from a small Colorado ski town. He had heavy Visqueen covering windows and part of the door. To co-exist with the black bears, he had to leave his door unlatched when he was away, so they could come and go if they wanted to. Otherwise they'd get frustrated and just push through the door. Like people in one respect, I guess. They want what they're told they can't have. :laughing:

 

[Oldoak]

-------------------------------------------
Your propane distributor might supply the parts and hook up the fill hose and valves if you ask them. You might have to lie a bit and say that you are buying a propane tractor and need to refill its tank.

I rather doubt that and reputable propane dealer would do that due to liability concerns. And I would not recommend "lying" to get what you may want.

 

[jaxs]

And I would not recommend "lying" to get what you may want.

I don't see why he shouldn't,our leaders in DC do it all the time.

 

[Oldoak]

I don't see why he shouldn't,our leaders in DC do it all the time.

You get what you vote for............

Just look at the disgusting behavior of the newly elected politicians. Unfortunately, another example of how low our politicians can stoop and far our country has fallen.

 

[aczlan]

Not talking about hooking to vapor port to use for filling a tank. I am saying that you hook up to the Liquid discharge port. You can hook to the vapor port to run your BBQ if you want.
Your propane distributor might supply the parts and hook up the fill hose and valves if you ask them. You might have to lie a bit and say that you are buying a propane tractor and need to refill its tank.

Generally, a residential tank isn't setup with a liquid port unless you paid for it when you got it. Otherwise it will just have a port with a plug in it that the tank has to be drained to remove.


Aaron Z

 

[Jack Murdock]

Shutting off the tank is OK... it is turning on the tank that it a problem and per the Dealer requires a Mandated inspection of all propane appliances onsite for a fee of course.

The reason I shut the tank off at the tank is to prevent a repeat of the bear incident... the bear actually damaged the piping twice... one time the tank was fill and the line was snapped.

The second time the tank was off and the bear broke the line again... I have seen the bear in the yard... also tore siding off the cabin.

As long as the bears are protected and homeowners are limited too defensive measures such as plate steel enclosures and electric fences... I don't see the problem improving as the population increases.

Can you imagine if I had an electric fence with 400+ gallons of propane vapor?

The letter came after the supplier came by to top off the tank as we have auto fill... tech noted the main valve closed and tank at 81%... it was the main valve being closed that generated the letter.

The propane dealer is required by code ( NFPA 58 ) to perform a leak check after every interruption in service. Even the homeowner shutting the service valve is an interruption in service.

 

[L120]

Here's a drawing showing the tank in an F'd up place for my new fence.

 

[ultrarunner]

The propane dealer is required by code ( NFPA 58 ) to perform a leak check after every interruption in service. Even the homeowner shutting the service valve is an interruption in service.

Help me understand...

I always do my own leak check and have many time had to pressurize (Pump Up) the system after alteration/replacement or new work to satisfy city inspectors...

Part of my daily work responsibilities is medical gas in Hospital environments... leak testing is automatic every time cylinders are exchanged.

When you think about it... a lot of the cabins have small tanks that the owners have filled and even propane forklifts, tractors and BBQ interrupt service.

The local Mom and Pop supplier we bought the tank from back in 1962 never had an issue... now that the company was sold to a large entity... they are difficult to deal with, prices much higher and "Free" services for contract customers no longer exist.

We even had a dispute as the take over company billed us tank rental for the tank we own... lucky I had all the original paperwork from 1962 to prove ownership!

I also work a lot with PGE... if the system is off and PGE is asked to turn on gas service a leak check is done by PGE at no cost...

If the system is on at the time of arrival no leak test required.... field service simply notes it in the service log... in fact the public utility NEVER charges a customer to leak check... as was the policy of the Mom and Pop family owned Propane Dealer for decades.