LEADED vs UNLEADED

[fried1765]

Leaded gas was phased out starting in 1975 and was illegal to use except for low lead aviation fuel only used in airplanes since 1996. If some people like the fire department in Fried1765’s district chose to flaunt the law that was enacted due to health hazards due to lead in the atmosphere that is up to them. Obviously they have no concern for the law or the health of the people in their community.

Sure..... I understand!
Fire departments generally ..."have no concern for the law or the health of the people in their community"
Makes me wonder why with "no concern" they (the fire departments) also run the ambulances.
So confusing!

 

[ray66v]

According to Mother Jones and the EPA, leaded avgas is to be phased out by 2019.

They have been promising to do that for decades. The can just keeps getting kicked down the road.

100LL is really only 96 octane, if you use the automotive standard of R+M/2, to determine octane.

Most piston aircraft are low compression, so they don't even need that kind of octane. They can easily run on regular octane unleaded.

There are also 96 octane unleaded fuels available, for the engines that need it.

A ton of testing has been done. And a lot of aircraft are already running unleaded.

But apparently, no one in the government is willing to finally make the call.

 

[Jstpssng]

Are the miles shorter in 2018 than they were in the 1970痴 ? Something like how telephone books use smaller print in 2018 than they did on the 1970痴 .

That's got to be it; it couldn't have anything to do with cars being built better than they were 40 years ago.

 

[ultrarunner]

That's got to be it; it couldn't have anything to do with cars being built better than they were 40 years ago.

Maybe, maybe not...

My engine engineer said the single biggest impact to longevity has been the evolution of motor oil and lubricants in general... the specs met today are very impressive and beyond imagination not all that long ago...

Not to add fuel to the fire... he was only stating the single across the board significant change...

 

[LouNY]

I believe the changes in ignition started the increase in gasoline engine life, the fuel injection system on gasoline cars was the major leap foreword in engine longevity, better faster easier starts, less raw gasoline washing down cylinder walls and diluting oil. :2cents:

 

[buickanddeere]

They have been promising to do that for decades. The can just keeps getting kicked down the road.

100LL is really only 96 octane, if you use the automotive standard of R+M/2, to determine octane.

Most piston aircraft are low compression, so they don't even need that kind of octane. They can easily run on regular octane unleaded.

There are also 96 octane unleaded fuels available, for the engines that need it.

A ton of testing has been done. And a lot of aircraft are already running unleaded.

But apparently, no one in the government is willing to finally make the call.

The rich mixture setting for takeoff is what counts . 100LL is actually 100/130 octane .

 

[sd455dan]

Depends on your state but yes, itç—´ definitely illegal and you should be eligible to a portion of the $10,000 fine for turning them in.

Tetra Ethyl lead is bad for humans for sure.

The Lead in gasoline story was featured on the newer Cosmos series (A Grave threat) in short story form
Clair Patterson ( The Most Important Scientist You've Never Heard Of)


long read
The Most Important Scientist You’ve Never Heard Of | Mental Floss

An eye opener for sure

 

[buickanddeere]

Leaf pipes, lead solder, lead paint

 

[ray66v]

The rich mixture setting for takeoff is what counts . 100LL is actually 100/130 octane .

None of that is relevant, or makes any sense.

 

[MossRoad]

None of that is relevant, or makes any sense.

From here:
Avgas - Wikipedia

"100/130 avgas has an octane rating of 100 at the lean settings usually used for cruising and 130 at the rich settings used for take-off and other full-power conditions."

 

[ray66v]

From here:
Avgas - Wikipedia

"100/130 avgas has an octane rating of 100 at the lean settings usually used for cruising and 130 at the rich settings used for take-off and other full-power conditions."

Yes, using aircraft octane performance ratings you can get those numbers.

If you test the exact same sample, using automotive octane ratings, (R+M/2 method), you get like 96 octane. Which is doable now in unleaded.

The vast majority of aircraft are low compression, and do not need high octane fuel. So, even if they kept 100LL for the high compression engines, 80% of the lead could be eliminated, by switching the rest to regular unleaded.

 

[buickanddeere]

None of that is relevant, or makes any sense.

Read and learn . Octane rating - Wikipedia

 

[buickanddeere]

None of that is relevant, or makes any sense.

Read this too. Where do you see the 100LL ?
Octane rating - Wikipedia

 

[fried1765]

From here:
Avgas - Wikipedia

"100/130 avgas has an octane rating of 100 at the lean settings usually used for cruising and 130 at the rich settings used for take-off and other full-power conditions."

I feel now that I must confess.....
In my lifetime I have burned several million of gallons of 115/145.
There..........now I feel better.

 

[ray66v]

Read this too. Where do you see the 100LL ?
Octane rating - Wikipedia

What are you trying to say? Because none of that, changes my point.

 

[buickanddeere]

What are you trying to say? Because none of that, changes my point.

took another look at the numbers and I am going to have to “eat some crow”. You are correct , 100LL is similar to what 96 octane automotive road gasoline would be .

 

[ray66v]

I read today, there is 2 grams of lead in a gallon of 100LL. That is much more than I expected, and I have spent a lot of hours cleaning lead out of aircraft spark plugs.

If you use what I believe to be a conservative figure of 150,000,000 gallons of 100LL burned per year, in the US, times 2 grams, and convert to pounds, it comes out to 661,386.79 pounds of lead each year?

No wonder the EPA keeps complaining about it.

 

[MossRoad]

I read today, there is 2 grams of lead in a gallon of 100LL. That is much more than I expected, and I have spent a lot of hours cleaning lead out of aircraft spark plugs.

If you use what I believe to be a conservative figure of 150,000,000 gallons of 100LL burned per year, in the US, times 2 grams, and convert to pounds, it comes out to 661,386.79 pounds of lead each year?

No wonder the EPA keeps complaining about it.

Yep. Avgas is the largest lead polluter in the country by far. I think people that burn it in their small engines should re-think it just on that alone. It's just not necessary.

 

[MossRoad]

I feel now that I must confess.....
In my lifetime I have burned several million of gallons of 115/145.
There..........now I feel better.

What did you burn it in?

I sold a lot of it working at airports.