LEADED vs UNLEADED

[Jstpssng]

Oh for frig sakes , where do these unleaded-leaded and detergent-non detergent questions keep coming from. Oh please give it a break and bury it. Put decent valves and valve seats in it and run it . How do you think gas vehicles go 300,000 miles now with little screaming high output engines . In the old days of leaded fuel a valve job was over due by 75,000 miles on slightly stressed V8.

That was a lot of miles for a car 40 years ago. 100,000 miles in 1978 was like 250,000 miles today; attainable if you took exceptional care of it and. Now it's not uncommon for a vehicle to go 300,000 miles or better.

 

[swnoel]

Unleaded gasoline and classic cars: A mechanic's viewpoint

 

[fried1765]

Many users on this site are using unleaded premium in their old gasoline tractors without problems. Unless you are in North Korea, Yemen, Afghanistan, and 3 more of those third world countries leaded gasoline is not available except for 100LL used in piston engined planes available only at airports. The GM chemists who discovered Tetraethyl lead as a knock preventer - one of them nearly died of lead poisoning. The FAA had the goal of eliminating lead in Avgas by the end of this year but the 2 suppliers of this fuel, Shell and Swift Oil, still haven稚 found the perfect substitute so it continues. Gawd I remember the old days when I had to change plugs twice a year in each of our cars due to fouling with lead deposits. Now if it痴 time for new plugs it痴 time for a new car or pickup.

Ethanol (not lead) is only a problem in regular gas,.... but not in Premium???

 

[3Lfarms]

Most people don’t realize that lead wasn’t added to gas until the 50s. Lead raised the octane and allowed higher compression and more power.
6:1 compression was pretty common before the addition of lead.

 

[ultrarunner]

I have vintage advertisements from the 1920's... still remember my Great, Great Aunt filling her Rambler only with Ethyl... as kids we thought that was a person's name.

Tetraethyllead - Wikipedia

Why Lead Used to Be Added To Gasoline

https://images.search.yahoo.com/ima...e&sign=145sn00de&.crumb=NnMAC02F5ZE&fr=mcafee

https://images.search.yahoo.com/ima...t&sign=128fsagtt&.crumb=NnMAC02F5ZE&fr=mcafee

 

[Jstpssng]

Ethanol (not lead) is only a problem in regular gas,.... but not in Premium???

It is for me because I buy it for my small engines at stations which carry premium with no ethanol; there are more and more of them popping up all of the time. It costs a little bit more, but still cheaper when you consider how many gallons of stale ethanol gas that I've wasted in my burn pan.

 

[Jstpssng]

I have vintage advertisements from the 1920's... still remember my Great, Great Aunt filling her Rambler only with Ethyl... as kids we thought that was a person's name.

Tetraethyllead - Wikipedia

Why Lead Used to Be Added To Gasoline

https://images.search.yahoo.com/ima...e&sign=145sn00de&.crumb=NnMAC02F5ZE&fr=mcafee

https://images.search.yahoo.com/ima...t&sign=128fsagtt&.crumb=NnMAC02F5ZE&fr=mcafee

Does Ethyl have a sister? (Burt Reynolds in "Gator", 1976.)

 

[MHarryE]

Ethanol (not lead) is only a problem in regular gas,.... but not in Premium???

Depends on your state. I live in Minnesota, one of the largest corn producing states. Therefore ethanol of 10% or greater is required for use in all automobiles or newer. Ethanol free premium is available for off highway and collector cars. It needs octane enhancers other than ethanol and is usually 70 cents higher per gallon than regular with ethanol. Tetraethyl lead has been banned for use in anything but airplanes for a very long time in every state. There are still something like 750,000 piston engine planes flying that the risk is too great according to the FAA’s October update where they said Shell and Swift have still not developed the perfect lead free.

 

[Jstpssng]

^^^^
They also don't allow ethanol for use in most if not all planes.

 

[MHarryE]

Most people don’t realize that lead wasn’t added to gas until the 50s. Lead raised the octane and allowed higher compression and more power.
6:1 compression was pretty common before the addition of lead.

A good and accurate summary of Tetraethyl lead being developed by GM in 1921 and made available in the 1920s is in the document linked on this thread. As to it’s elimination I remember having a rental car in Eastern Washington state in the 70s that had the filler insert but the only station around still sold leaded. I had to buy a 2 liter bottle of Coke, cut it in half, and use it as a funnel to fill with enough gas to get to a bigger town. At first it was because of contaminating catalytic converters before they had equipment sensitive enough to accurately measure low blood lead levels and determined its health hazard. They really knocked compression ratios down before they introduced ethanol as a lead substitute and developed knock sensors for engine control.

 

[CobyRupert]

I have vintage advertisements from the 1920's... still remember my Great, Great Aunt filling her Rambler only with Ethyl... as kids we thought that was a person's name.

Who doesn’t remember pumping Ethyl back in the day...

 

[fried1765]

It is for me because I buy it for my small engines at stations which carry premium with no ethanol; there are more and more of them popping up all of the time. It costs a little bit more, but still cheaper when you consider how many gallons of stale ethanol gas that I've wasted in my burn pan.

I would absolutely buy premium if it actually did NOT have ethanol, but in my case there is no difference in ethanol content by octane/grade.
State statue: "non-ethanol gasoline may not be dispensed from a pump".
Too far for me to drive to Maine for premium.
The only choice I have is 100LL at the airport (pump exception).

 

[blacklion66]

Oh for frig sakes , where do these unleaded-leaded and detergent-non detergent questions keep coming from. Oh please give it a break and bury it. Put decent valves and valve seats in it and run it . How do you think gas vehicles go 300,000 miles now with little screaming high output engines . In the old days of leaded fuel a valve job was over due by 75,000 miles on slightly stressed V8.

MR SUPPER member:thumbdown:, not every is like you than can afford to buy new toys. If you think I'm full of crap stop by any small business that repairs small engines and start preaching about the virtues of the stuff called gas at the pumps. They will laugh you out the front door

 

[blacklion66]

Depends on your state. I live in Minnesota, one of the largest corn producing states. Therefore ethanol of 10% or greater is required for use in all automobiles or newer. Ethanol free premium is available for off highway and collector cars. It needs octane enhancers other than ethanol and is usually 70 cents higher per gallon than regular with ethanol. Tetraethyl lead has been banned for use in anything but airplanes for a very long time in every state. There are still something like 750,000 piston engine planes flying that the risk is too great according to the FAA痴 October update where they said Shell and Swift have still not developed the perfect lead free.

In Washington state bulk plants can can have pumps that have real gas that the public have access too. I live near Colville and even though a small town we have two bulk plants both of which sell real gas☺

 

[MHarryE]

If they sell leaded gas I would like to be able to turn them in because the share of the fine I would get for turning them in would be like winning the lottery. Only sold at airports for older piston engine planes. Ethanol free premium sure, but not leaded.

 

[fried1765]

If they sell leaded gas I would like to be able to turn them in because the share of the fine I would get for turning them in would be like winning the lottery. Only sold at airports for older piston engine planes. Ethanol free premium sure, but not leaded.

Blacklion66...states that bulk plants in Washington can sell "real gas".
He did not equate "real gas" to leaded gas.
I would assume that he was describing "real gas" as non-ethanol gas.

 

[blacklion66]

If they sell leaded gas I would like to be able to turn them in because the share of the fine I would get for turning them in would be like winning the lottery. Only sold at airports for older piston engine planes. Ethanol free premium sure, but not leaded.

Quote Originally Posted by MHarryE View Post
Depends on your state. I live in Minnesota, one of the largest corn producing states. Therefore ethanol of 10% or greater is required for use in all automobiles or newer. Ethanol free premium is available for off highway and collector cars. It needs octane enhancers other than ethanol and is usually 70 cents higher per gallon than regular with ethanol. Tetraethyl lead has been banned for use in anything but airplanes for a very long time in every state. There are still something like 750,000 piston engine planes flying that the risk is too great according to the FAA痴 October update where they said Shell and Swift have still not developed the perfect lead free.[/COLOR

In Washington state bulk plants can have pumps that have real gas that the public have access too. I live near Colville and even though a small town we have two bulk plants both of which sell real gas

 

[fried1765]

Quote Originally Posted by MHarryE View Post
Depends on your state. I live in Minnesota, one of the largest corn producing states. Therefore ethanol of 10% or greater is required for use in all automobiles or newer. Ethanol free premium is available for off highway and collector cars. It needs octane enhancers other than ethanol and is usually 70 cents higher per gallon than regular with ethanol. Tetraethyl lead has been banned for use in anything but airplanes for a very long time in every state. There are still something like 750,000 piston engine planes flying that the risk is too great according to the FAAç—´ October update where they said Shell and Swift have still not developed the perfect lead free.[/COLOR

In Washington state bulk plants can have pumps that have real gas that the public have access too. I live near Colville and even though a small town we have two bulk plants both of which sell real gas

Your definition of "real gas" is ??

 

[MossRoad]

Your definition of "real gas" is ??

Beefy bean burrito at Taco Bell....

 

[adventure bob]

I think some folks are missing the primary purpose of tetra ethyl lead in gasoline: Its primary purposes is an octane increaser to reduce knock and pig. The secondary effect that is mentioned in these post as an upper valve lube was interesting and secondary. Just like MTBE after it and now ethanol the primary purpose is octane control. Other chemicals work as well like toluene, but its too expensive and the EPA complains if used as a mass market additive.