LEADED vs UNLEADED

[MossRoad]

Ah, the old knock and pig. Wasn't that a BBQ place out on RT45?

 

[fried1765]

Beefy bean burrito at Taco Bell....

Yup!
THAT would most certainly be REAL GAS !

 

[fried1765]

Who doesn稚 remember pumping Ethyl back in the day...

Never even met her !!!

 

[ray66v]

My 48 Allis has been restored. Now my final question: What type gas should be run in this old motor? 'Leaded gas negatives appear to be overstated while unleaded gas benefits appear to be understated'. This comment is taken from an article I read recently. I'd like to get some opinions from others before filling the tank.

What exactly do you have in mind for options?

The only leaded fuel I know of, is 100LL aviation gas, and beside the fact that it's low lead, using it in any vehicle aside from an airplane, is a violation of federal law. Not to mention, it's expensive.

I have seen "lead substitutes" for sale, but they aren't lead. So, I really don't know if they do anything, aside from lightening your wallet. There doesn't seem to be any research on them as far as I can see, to show they make a difference.

Lots of opinions, as usual, but there seems to be little science.

 

[fried1765]

What exactly do you have in mind for options?

The only leaded fuel I know of, is 100LL aviation gas, and beside the fact that it's low lead, using it in any vehicle aside from an airplane, is a violation of federal law. Not to mention, it's expensive.

I have seen "lead substitutes" for sale, but they aren't lead. So, I really don't know if they do anything, aside from lightening your wallet. There doesn't seem to be any research on them as far as I can see, to show they make a difference.

Lots of opinions, as usual, but there seems to be little science.

Are my rototillers/ mowers/ lawn tractors/chainsaws etc. "vehicles"?
All my local area fire departments use 100LL for their small engines/generators/pumps/saws etc.
If I turn them in, should I expect to get a reward?

 

[MHarryE]

Are my rototillers/ mowers/ lawn tractors/chainsaws etc. "vehicles"?
All my local area fire departments use 100LL for their small engines/generators/pumps/saws etc.
If I turn them in, should I expect to get a reward?

Depends on your state but yes, it’s definitely illegal and you should be eligible to a portion of the $10,000 fine for turning them in.

 

[MossRoad]

I think the only reason it is illegal to put 100LL into a car is because it's not road taxed.

Sunoco still makes leaded racing fuel. This article says they do. It also explains how it raises octane, and how some people with older vintage cars with the original heads and valves still want it. And, it talks about redoing heads and using hardened valves so you don't have to use leaded fuel. Good read from the manufacturer.

Race Fuel 11: Lead and Leaded Racing Fuels - Sunoco Race Fuels

 

[fried1765]

Depends on your state but yes, it’s definitely illegal and you should be eligible to a portion of the $10,000 fine for turning them in.

I wonder how THAT would go over locally?
Me ... turning in a few small town New England fire departments,..... so I could collect a reward?
I think I might then be run out of town on a rail, to some location substantially more distant than even the arrowhead.

 

[fried1765]

I think the only reason it is illegal to put 100LL into a car is because it's not road taxed.

Sunoco still makes leaded racing fuel. This article says they do. It also explains how it raises octane, and how some people with older vintage cars with the original heads and valves still want it. And, it talks about redoing heads and using hardened valves so you don't have to use leaded fuel. Good read from the manufacturer.

Race Fuel 11: Lead and Leaded Racing Fuels - Sunoco Race Fuels

They sure do MAKE it.... but, in Taxachusetts it .... "may not be dispensed from a pump"

 

[buickanddeere]

That was a lot of miles for a car 40 years ago. 100,000 miles in 1978 was like 250,000 miles today; attainable if you took exceptional care of it and. Now it's not uncommon for a vehicle to go 300,000 miles or better.

Are the miles shorter in 2018 than they were in the 1970痴 ? Something like how telephone books use smaller print in 2018 than they did on the 1970痴 .

 

[buickanddeere]

MR SUPPER member:thumbdown:, not every is like you than can afford to buy new toys. If you think I'm full of crap stop by any small business that repairs small engines and start preaching about the virtues of the stuff called gas at the pumps. They will laugh you out the front door

I have no idea how you can come to some disjointed conclusion about affordability or something . When rebuilding an old engine , install hardened seats to reduce valve seat recession with unleaded fuel .

 

[buickanddeere]

Avgas - Wikipedia

 

[MHarryE]

Leaded gas was phased out starting in 1975 and was illegal to use except for low lead aviation fuel only used in airplanes since 1996. If some people like the fire department in Fried1765’s district chose to flaunt the law that was enacted due to health hazards due to lead in the atmosphere that is up to them. Obviously they have no concern for the law or the health of the people in their community.

 

[ultrarunner]

Just called a race buddy... he pointed me to this site which clearly advertises and sells motor vehicle fuel with lead.

Not sure how they could sell... let alone advertise Leaded Race Fuel if it was illegal?

Leaded Race Fuels - RaceFuel.com


Buy VP-11� Racing Fuel Online. In-Stock + Fast National Delivery | Amber Racing Services

Could it be the illegal controversy is subject Street Legal Fuel and road/highway tax... just like using Diesel Red off road is illegal to use for over the Highway vehicles... But, exceptions have been made at time of Disaster... like Katrina when a blanket waiver was issued.

 

[DJ54]

One other product I forgot to mention I use in my older 1 cylinder engines, to prevent exhaust valves from sticking, is Marvel Mystery Oil. I actually started using it, when I overhauled a 223 6 cyl. Ford truck engine that was in a F-300 1 ton dump I'd bought at auction. I took the block, pistons & rods,and crank to be checked at a very reputable machine shop. I was concerned about valve burn, using unleaded fuel. The younger partner in the shop talked me out of replacing the valves with the stellite valves. He was very big in racing pre-unleaded fuel motorcycles, and car for the drag strip. He told me to just buy MMO, and add the prescribed amount to protect the valves. Being he tore his engines down several times a year to re-ring, and replace bearings, he also checked the valves and head when it was down. He told me in several years of racing, he found no damage to the valves, or seats, since he started using the MMO.

He told me it was also great to use in smaller 4 cycle engines, in garden tractors, and mowers designed to use leaded gas. At that time when many of those engines were used, in the hottest part of the summer, they would seem to vapor lock, but it was actually the exhaust valve sticking open, due to no lubrication. At that time, MMO came in metal quart cans, and the metal cap was the perfect measure to add, for each gallon of gas a tank would hold. It's just one of those things you had to try, to believe it. I still use it in my old David Bradley garden tractors I use in the garden, with engines from the 50's. I also add it to my 50's models Farmall tractors. A's, BN, and Super C's. I even fixed a neighbor girls riding mower her Dad had bought several years before this incedent. In August, she could mow about 1/2 of her yard, before the exhaust valve would stick. Let it set an hour, and the valve would release. She called, and asked me to "fix" it. I took my trusty can of MMO, and added a couple cap fulls to a full tank of fuel, because she was going to do some extra mowing. I told her to try it, and see what happens. She called 3 hours later, and was happy to report, it kept running, even when mowing in higher grass for quite a while. She bought her own can,and added when fueling up. That mower ran for another 5-6 years, without those issues.

I'm not much on a lot of "mechanic in a can" products, but, this is one of a few I've found that actually works.

 

[MossRoad]

Leaded gas was phased out starting in 1975 and was illegal to use except for low lead aviation fuel only used in airplanes since 1996. If some people like the fire department in Fried1765痴 district chose to flaunt the law that was enacted due to health hazards due to lead in the atmosphere that is up to them. Obviously they have no concern for the law or the health of the people in their community.

Find the law and post a link to it. I still think it's only illegal to run it on the road as it's not road taxed.

 

[Oaktree]

Are the miles shorter in 2018 than they were in the 1970痴 ? Something like how telephone books use smaller print in 2018 than they did on the 1970痴 .

Cars had smaller tires back then so you had to go a lot further to cover the same distance.

 

[MossRoad]

Cars had smaller tires back then so you had to go a lot further to cover the same distance.

:scratchchin:

 

[adventure bob]

The legality of lead in a motor vehicle comes from the The Clean Air Act (42 U.S.C. ｧ7401 et seq. (1970)). Amendments to that act required the use of catalytic converters in road legal gasoline vehicles and leaded gas does damages them. Amendments to the CAA over the years phased out the use of lead in many substances including gasoline. In 1996, it became illegal for refiners to add any lead to gasoline for use in motor vehicles. Here's an MIT paper covering the history of the lead reduction over time: http://web.mit.edu/ckolstad/www/Newell.pdf. As to folks using fuels for stuff other than motor vehicle gasoline, I'm not sure where the legality comes from. If Lead in motor vehicle gasoline is illegal, then there must be some exemption for non vehicular gas.

 

[adventure bob]

According to Mother Jones and the EPA, leaded avgas is to be phased out by 2019.