1000 ft water line

[Tigershark]

I have to put in a 1000 ft water line at our farm, I have been using a Vermeer ride of trencher and it does well but I am consistently hitting rock anywhere from 24-30 inches. Would a mini excavator do a better job over going through the rock or pulling it up? I believe most of it is sandstone. What other options should I consider? This is for a garden on our farm and to water around 75 trees we planted in the fall. I wouldn't need it during the winter but would like to get it down to 3 ft if possible, We might build in 5 years so we could potentially come off this line for the house it would be another 900 ft away. Was planning on running 2 inch pvc. I haven't used an excavator before and didn't know if they had the power to dig up the rock. Open to suggestions, tried digging 6 test trenches this evening over a 30 ft area and kept hitting rock.

 

[Sonny580]

In your area I would think a hoe would be the only way to go!--Running them is not hard, just concentrate on what your doing and all will be good!! thanks; sonny580

 

[RNeumann]

Yes to a mini excavator- that will be the perfect opportunity to learn. Trenchers are a PTIA if the soil isn’t just right.

I’m not sure of your climate but water lines are typically 1’ below the frost line- no need to go beyond that.

2” pvc is good for future needs- maybe even overkill. 2” pipe would be more than a house with fire sprinklers would have- so it depends on your yard/farm needs. Schedule 40 PVC would be a minimum. If you are going that deep and are willing to “do it right” look into a roll of HDPE pipe. A real pain in that size but you would have zero worries where PVC may have a very slight worry....and at that depth it’s hard to find and fix leaks. Either are fine- but the HDPE is what the utility would run.

 

[/pine]

For just a waterline and you already have it there should be "rock teeth" available for the trencher...you only need every other tooth to be carbide tipped to get though many rocky conditions...

 

[flingwing1969]

I have to put in a 1000 ft water line at our farm, I have been using a Vermeer ride of trencher and it does well but I am consistently hitting rock anywhere from 24-30 inches. Would a mini excavator do a better job over going through the rock or pulling it up? I believe most of it is sandstone. What other options should I consider? This is for a garden on our farm and to water around 75 trees we planted in the fall. I wouldn't need it during the winter but would like to get it down to 3 ft if possible, We might build in 5 years so we could potentially come off this line for the house it would be another 900 ft away. Was planning on running 2 inch pvc. I haven't used an excavator before and didn't know if they had the power to dig up the rock. Open to suggestions, tried digging 6 test trenches this evening over a 30 ft area and kept hitting rock.

I say mini-ex for the reasons stated. You could also use this opportunity as an excuse, umm I mean reason for buying one for your stable.

 

[Tigershark]

I'm thinking it might be best to bite the bullet and rent the mini with the hoe ram and just do it right the first time
Welcome to Arts Rental!

What are your thoughts on this one ? I figure its a couple day job , I think if I did an excavator I would have to clean up all the rock that I pull out of the ground which would be a major pain. Am I going in the right direction ?

 

[Tigershark]

The trencher is borrowed from a friend so I can't change out the teeth

 

[Tigershark]

I have briefly looked into the HDE pipe I will keep researching it , I know the price is double but it might have more benefits that make it worth it

 

[RNeumann]

I have briefly looked into the HDE pipe I will keep researching it , I know the price is double but it might have more benefits that make it worth it

The cost of the pipe is rarely the deciding factor with underground work. I’d be more inclined to go PVC at 12-24”. Below that you could play heck trying to find a little leak.

 

[EddieWalker]

The trencher is borrowed from a friend so I can't change out the teeth

A trencher is going to be faster and easier then anything else. Since your friend owns the trencher, he should be very pleased if you go to the dealer and buy the correct teeth for what you dealing with.

 

[madpuma13]

I have briefly looked into the HDE pipe I will keep researching it , I know the price is double but it might have more benefits that make it worth it

PVC may not be the best choice for your situation.

Think of all your joints that you will have over a 1000' supply line. Each of those joints is a potential failure point. With HDPE, you can get tools of 100', 200' or even 500' from some suppliers making your potential joint failure points much lower than pvc.

I find dealing with a roll to be much easier when laying a line than dozens of sticks of PVC with all the couplers and glue.

The only downside for the average homeowner when it comes to HDPE is how to couple two lines together. They don't use glue and a third piece to splice to lines together. They actually use a specialty heater to heat each pipe then you can fuse the two together making one pipe.

The fuser/heater is something you can rent from most places that sell large rolls of HDPE but there is a learning curve to doing it right. You could also pay a plumber to go out there and do your 1-4 fuses and they probably wouldn't charge much if they didn't have to touch the pipe otherwise.

Don't let the fuser deter you though. HDPE is the only way to go when you go with 2" size pipe or bigger for any significant distance. It's how most municipalities supply water these days shying away from metal pipe from days of old.

Good luck

 

[SimS]

I agree with those that recommend a trencher with rock teeth. With the mini hoe you have to dig with the bucket until you hit a rock then switch to the ram to break the rock and back to the bucket, etc. If you're sure that you are hitting sandstone the rock teeth will cut it just fine. Good luck.

SimS

 

[EddieWalker]

PVC may not be the best choice for your situation.

Think of all your joints that you will have over a 1000' supply line. Each of those joints is a potential failure point. With HDPE, you can get tools of 100', 200' or even 500' from some suppliers making your potential joint failure points much lower than pvc.

I find dealing with a roll to be much easier when laying a line than dozens of sticks of PVC with all the couplers and glue.

The only downside for the average homeowner when it comes to HDPE is how to couple two lines together. They don't use glue and a third piece to splice to lines together. They actually use a specialty heater to heat each pipe then you can fuse the two together making one pipe.

The fuser/heater is something you can rent from most places that sell large rolls of HDPE but there is a learning curve to doing it right. You could also pay a plumber to go out there and do your 1-4 fuses and they probably wouldn't charge much if they didn't have to touch the pipe otherwise.

Don't let the fuser deter you though. HDPE is the only way to go when you go with 2" size pipe or bigger for any significant distance. It's how most municipalities supply water these days shying away from metal pipe from days of old.

Good luck

I'm familiar with it being used for natural gas lines, but not for water mains in cities. From what I see, they use gasketed pipe for water mains because it allows each joint to slide in and out of each other as the ground moves during the course of the year. Gasketed pipe is what I would use for long runs. My water line is only 800 feet and I bought my pipe from my water department for what they pay for it. They cannot make a profit on materials, but they like to sell it so they get a volume discount from their supplier.

 

[Cord]

I wouldn't try to supply a house with 2,000 ft of 2". The friction loss will kill any pressure/flow. I have 1.5" feeding my barn 150' away that is 30' above my house and there is a very noticeable pressure drop when more than 10 gallons is pulled off the line quickly. Adding pressure tanks and surge tanks will help this but they also add complexity. Honestly, I'd just put another well in.

Don't use PVC, use HDPE (black) pipe instead. It comes in longer lengths so you have fewer joints, is more flexible (less prone to breaking) and can be had in several wall thicknesses. If you want to use this for potable water, then make sure the pipe has the correct NSF certification.

 

[RNeumann]

The height difference (about 15 psi at 30 feet of elevation) is what is killing the pressure. The friction loss in 1000 of 1.5” pipe flowing 10gpm is only a pound or two.
This is assuming their is no other pipe or fixture restrictions in the system.

 

[Deere Dude]

I wouldn't go any deeper than I had to for frost protection, and I wouldn't go with any larger pipe than needed or have more joints than is needed to do the job.. That is where huge rolls are nice. Splice with brass fittings and all stainless clamps.

I have 1" pvc at 1200 feet and is plenty, but the pressure is 120#. It works but I am crossing my fingers as I type this.

I would us rolled HDPE with max 1.5" but 1" would probably be plenty large.

 

[mcfarmall]

Bigger diameter=less pressure drop. I ran 1" about 120' and it comes out like a fire hose!

 

[JDL538]

I live in N. KY. lots of rocks for about 700 ft. We had it done they used a large back hoe we had a total of 1500 feet.. We used A 1 in. Black pipe.. Before that they used blue max it started leaking in about 5 spots over time a real pain in the ***...It was 3/4 in. the 1 in. is plenty for our use..We had bids as high as 17k got it done for 7k total job they did a lot of bitching.

 

[kthompson]

May I recommend you placing a trace line in the trench for metal detector to locate the pipe down the road?

 

[RNeumann]

May I recommend you placing a trace line in the trench for metal detector to locate the pipe down the road?

Great point! Required by most codes now too.