New welder... probably multimatic 215 but not sure

[mikehaugen]

Hey everyone! It's been quite a while since I've posted here but nice to see some familiar names are still around.

Anyway...

I currently own a Lincoln idealarc 250 tig/stick machine that has and still does serve me well, I plan to keep it. But I've been coming up with some projects that I believe will be better suited with a lower midrange mig... namely some body panel repair and a couple bumper fabs (most likely 3/16"), but a mig in general would just be handy to have around.

I've had my eye on the miller 211 for years (even before it was an inverter) but now that I'm close to buying the newer multi-process welders are catching my eye. Long story short, I have narrowed it down to the same 3 that everyone asks about, but my situation is a little different... lincoln powermig 210, esab rebel, or multimatic 215. Tig is not really a consideration for me because I have what I believe is a more capable tig welder already and I don't ever see myself needing to tig weld outside of my "shop" (garage).

If I'm going to buy a machine this size then I might as well plan on taking advantage of it's portability if need be so I would like the ability to stick weld. (Although the 211 still isn't out of the running because I guess I could learn to flux-core even though I've never done it).

Ironically, if you don't count available rebates, Esab is the most expensive so I would probably discount them, but they do offer the ems version which is mig/stick with no tig, but no rebates available so the price is close to the emp version. Also it seems the esab is the only one that rates their machine for 6010, but it's not that big of a deal since I could just use 6011. The lincoln is the cheapest of the bunch, but honestly I'd just prefer a miller, not to mention that from what people say the spool gun options are better with the miller if I later decide to get one. The downfall of the miller is no inductance control.

So basically my 2 big questions are...

1. Is lack of inductance control a deal breaker? I use an xmt304 with 22a feeder at work and have never messed with inductance (not even 100% sure it is adjustable)

2. Is stick really a necessity? Flux-core could potentially eliminate my need for it in the rare instance I want to weld outside in the wind.

Maybe I would be best off sticking with the miller 211, but the multimatic 215 looks appealing. I assume mig performance is nearly identical between the 2?

I know I lied... there's actually 4 options.

Thanks in advance

 

[Shield Arc]

mike I don't know anything about the welders you mention.
Years ago, I owned a Linde VI-206 Mig welder with inductance control. With inductance control it is amazing the control you have over the puddle!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[mikehaugen]

Shield Arc! Thanks for the reply, the funny thing is I believe that same machine is for sale near me on CL, how does it do on lighter stuff (body work)? Although the portability of the smaller ones is starting to appeal to me.

Also, to add to my post, when looking at the welders in person, the lincoln 210 appears to have a better drive roll system where the top and bottom rolls are geared together versus an idler for the top roll on the miller, though I haven't really heard too many complaints about the feeding on the millers.

 

[Shield Arc]

That Linde Mig welder had a Mig 21 wire feeder on top of it. I built a lumber rack for my pickup. Out of 1/16-inch thick box tube. I used .023 wire, the wire feeder had a very hard time pushing that small wire through a 15-feet long gun. Now .030, .035, and .045 wire it did great!

 

[dragoneggs]

Hey, welcome back Mike! I looked back and yeah its been almost 3 years. Time flies. Good to hear from you.

When I bought my 211 (transformer), I was considering a multiprocess even though I knew I would be Migging most all of the time. Now I want a TIG even though I have never tried it, but I'm thinking I like the idea of dedicated machines so I am not constantly swapping out stuff for different jobs. I say that even though I am just an occasional user. I hate set up time when I want to do a quick job. I will keep my 211 and probably get a TIG/stick machine that is a little more portable so I can learn/practice TIG w/o having to mess with my Go To machine.

 

[Will S]

Hey everyone! It's been quite a while since I've posted here but nice to see some familiar names are still around.

Anyway...

Also it seems the esab is the only one that rates their machine for 6010, but it's not that big of a deal since I could just use 6011.

Thanks in advance

Have you looked at the Everlast PowerArc 200ST? It is a DC stick/tig machine with a dedicated port for 6010.

 

[dragoneggs]

This is the one I have been eyeing if I go green...

PowerTIG 2DV - TIG Welders | Everlast Generators

I want to hear from users though.

 

[Evan03]

I love blue machines . Im in your shoes looking go esab. I believe you get more namg for the buck with these machine's compared to blue 215.
Though i may put my money in plazz instead and maybe watch for a used 252.

 

[mikehaugen]

I have looked into everlast, but honesly even though I have heard of people having great things to say about them I just can't get over the fact that I see them as a cheap import. I know it would probably serve me fine for many years I just can't bring myself to buy one... just like I can't bring myself to buy anything but the most trivial things from harbor freight even though their tools have more or less proven to be adequate for most things. No offense to Mark or anybody that owns one... it's just my thing. Same goes for Hyundai and Kia, they seem to be making some pretty competitive vehicles now but I doubt you will ever see me behind the wheel of one.

I love blue machines . Im in your shoes looking go esab. I believe you get more namg for the buck with these machine's compared to blue 215.
Though i may put my money in plazz instead and maybe watch for a used 252.

Strangely, in this case, the Esab has the highest msrp, though with rebates it pretty close to the miller. But I believe it comes with tig torch and pedal so I guess it's not really a fair comparison, but tig features mean next to nothing to me unless someone can convince me that it is substantially more capable than my idealarc.

 

[mikehaugen]

So does anybody see a big disadvantage of possibly having to use 6011 instead of 6010? I'll never be doing code work or I'd be looking at completely different welders. Also, I never use 6010 by itself, it is only used to tack or as a first pass to dig deep when I am welding thicker material, then finish with 7018.

 

[MinnesotaDaveChalmers]

So does anybody see a big disadvantage of possibly having to use 6011 instead of 6010? I'll never be doing code work or I'd be looking at completely different welders. Also, I never use 6010 by itself, it is only used to tack or as a first pass to dig deep when I am welding thicker material, then finish with 7018.

I don't see any problem with it. I used 6011 and 6010 this summer. I found them similar enough not to really matter.

Grab some 1/8" and see what you think of them, then you'll know for sure.

 

[Shield Arc]

mike I've owned three Everlast welders, and played with a couple of their Mig welders. For the money they are fantastic welders!
Now let me explain. In 1982 I bought this Miller Trailblazer 55D. Paid $9,378.00 for it. Almost 2 years ago I bought this Lincoln Vantage 400. Paid $12,500.00 for it. The Miller welder I rented it to the companies I worked for, for $650.00 a month. Sold it in 1995 for $4,500.00. The Vantage 400 is just for me to play with.

 

[yomax4]

I have looked into everlast, but honesly even though I have heard of people having great things to say about them I just can't get over the fact that I see them as a cheap import. I know it would probably serve me fine for many years I just can't bring myself to buy one... just like I can't bring myself to buy anything but the most trivial things from harbor freight even though their tools have more or less proven to be adequate for most things. No offense to Mark or anybody that owns one... it's just my thing. Same goes for Hyundai and Kia, they seem to be making some pretty competitive vehicles now but I doubt you will ever see me behind the wheel of one.Strangely, in this case, the Esab has the highest msrp, though with rebates it pretty close to the miller. But I believe it comes with tig torch and pedal so I guess it's not really a fair comparison, but tig features mean next to nothing to me unless someone can convince me that it is substantially more capable than my idealarc.

The Rebel is a Cheap import too so do include that in your thoughts. ESAB doesn't make Anything except a little bit of wire. They buy and put their sticker on the Rebel. It's an ok machine but I suggest you call a couple of welder repair houses before you buy one. Massive lead times for repair parts and a total POS gun on it. 1st thing you would want to do is buy a better gun. Good Luck on what ever you choose.

 

[yomax4]

So does anybody see a big disadvantage of possibly having to use 6011 instead of 6010? I'll never be doing code work or I'd be looking at completely different welders. Also, I never use 6010 by itself, it is only used to tack or as a first pass to dig deep when I am welding thicker material, then finish with 7018.

6011 and 6010 are both what they call cellulose coated rods and they run similar in that they need a little more open circuit voltage to get them going. I'm the last one however to know much more about burning them in person. Many on here do though.

 

[mikehaugen]

The Rebel is a Cheap import too so do include that in your thoughts. ESAB doesn't make Anything except a little bit of wire. They buy and put their sticker on the Rebel. It's an ok machine but I suggest you call a couple of welder repair houses before you buy one. Massive lead times for repair parts and a total POS gun on it. 1st thing you would want to do is buy a better gun. Good Luck on what ever you choose.

I'm starting to realize that more and more as I look into things. I guess since I've seen them around for a long time and the fact that two of the big welding supply places near me (one is airgas) are distributors for Esab that they were at least a higher-end import. To be honest I was actually under the impression they were a European import, but at least lately it seems they fall into the "cheap import" category more and more. That and the fact that pricewise they aren't even that great have made me pretty much dismiss them as well. Though I plan to visit another distributor near me and I will at least take the time to look at one in person (another reason I'm not too keen on everlast is I can't physically check one out before buying).

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

Yomax has hit upon what I wasn't going to bring up initially, because it didn't seem worth it because it's been mentioned several times on this forum... but a lot of people ignore searching for the facts and acknowledging it when it isn't convenient. Yomax knows what he is talking about. Everlast has built product in the same plant as ESAB and Thermal Arc and in fact started the MTS class market in 2009 and the product was more specialized for us than for the Fabricator. But since Yomax did bring it up, it is worth going on to mention that Lincoln is import as well in this market, with their product being made in Mexico, out of similar components and had their share of issues with feed system, and much of their parts are Chinese made. The Miller itself is not made in USA. At best, It is assembled here, but that is it.
Everlast isn't cheap, if that is what you think. It is cheaper, but far from Harbor Freight typical quality. It uses name brand components inside, and parts are made everywhere from the US to Germany to Japan to Korea and back to China. But they are quality parts, and not proprietary or private labeled components. One thing we do, is use copper. A lot of companies use aluminum to cheapen and lighten up their products. That includes the name brands. Another thing, is that we do have a 5 year warranty. If our product was as cheap as you say, we'd be out of business 1) It failed at a high rate as people would put our company under with lawsuits 2) We had to repair a huge number of units with our slimmer margins than Miller or Lincoln carry on their products during the 5 years.

 

[mikehaugen]

Thanks Mark, I respect your presence on this forum and always have, that's part of why I don't like to say what I had to say. I am aware of the Lincoln being made in Mexico and Miller not really being made here much. ****, many of my dewalt tools are made in Mexico... it's not something I like but something I have to accept. As far as Esab, I knew they were imported but they have almost a mainstream presence and local availability which led me to believe they were, as I said at least possibly a European import, which is easier to swallow. They had just recently (like in the last 2 weeks) came even close to being considered by me, so no I hadn't put a ton of research into them.

I acknowledged the fact that Everlast has nothing but a good reputation, I don't believe they are a pos, but I'm not about to have something shipped halfway across the country and spend what doesn't amount to much less than blue or red soley based on an online picture and a spec sheet. If you guys could get set up with some distributors I would be more likely to consider, but that would likely bring the cost even closer to the others. So maybe their margins aren't all that much higher when you take everything into consideration?

Your response implies that I know nothing and do little research when in fact this has been a consideration for me for years and it has just taken this long to be in a position to finally move on it and things have changed a little so I'm exploring other options.

 

[Evan03]

Notice the everlast advertising on this website through sales people aswell as paid banners.

Ive never seen a green welder where im located never heard of them untill researching the 215s

I havent bought yet so who knows i could go green. I think i need a plazma first

 

[mikehaugen]

So I visited another welding supply today and they have a demo unit miller multimatic 215, can't tell it's ever been used. It's missing the mig gun but they said they'd give me a 250 amp bernard instead 🖒. $1080 plus tax... why I didn't walk out with it I'm not sure... wait yes I do, it's because I don't really have the cash until next Friday . I will either move some money around or see if he will hold it, will probably need to put a deposit but not a big deal.

I really hope I didn't hurt anybody's feelings here, that wasn't the point of this thread, but at this point I don't care what anybody has to offer I don't think anybody can beat this deal.

 

[BukitCase]

Looks to me like the 215 might have a bit more "grunt" than the 211 (one of my wire machines) - if you're ANYTHING like me, do NOT let 'em "toss in" a 10' gun - the feed on BOTH the new machines can handle a 15' one, to me that's the MINIMUM I'd want. My mm252 has a 15' gun and a 30A spool gun (30 feet), and there are times when I'll put a 2# spool of hard wire in the 30A just for the reach.

When I bought the mm211 I had to take it "as is", which is ONLY shipped with a 10' gun - so I paid extra for a M150 gun/15'. Just my $.02, I'd definitely let 'em gimme a 15" Bernard over the Miller guns... Steve