Logging winch- New user with questions!

[KubotaGirl001]

Hi! I'm new here and really enjoy all the shared info. I just bought my first tractor (Kubota M7060) and not only am I learning about operating it but also very interested in learning all the safety rules. I intend to use the tractor for use in the woods and bought a new FX 110 Wallenstein logging winch (10,500 lbs pulling power with 7/16" steel cable). I have some questions about using the winch and I hope I can get some help here. Please excuse me if I am using some terms incorrectly! Feel free to correct me

1- When first connecting the winch to the TPO will I necessarily have to get the shaft adjusted (cut?)? Or is it possible it may just be a perfect fit right from the factory? If it needs to be shortened who does that?

2- My biggest concern is for safety. I have watched as many youtube videos as possible of logs being winched. What are the biggest safety concerns? I do understand one should never stand behind the rear wheel while winching because the tractor can suddenly move backwards. Also, I do not have a remote on the winch so will be using the cord. I am a bit leery of the cable snapping. How dangerous is this if the cable does snap? Does it come flying back towards the tractor with tremendous force? Do people get seriously injured/killed this way? The winch has that screen to protect the window, so is it safest/best to control the brake cord from in the cab? Most videos show the person standing to the side. Also, should one never winch at an angle to the tractor and instead try to keep it as straight a line as possible?

3- When skidding the logs sometimes they are going to be digging into the ground depending on the circumstances. Does anyone have any tips or tricks that may make it easier to avoid this? I just want the log, not the soil! Is there a trick to attaching the choker to the log that will help prevent it? One of our neighbors used to skid the logs out from the small end which seems it may help the log from digging in, but then why is everyone taking it out from the big end first? (is it to do with the weight of the log in relation to the winch pulling power?).

Ok, I'll leave it at this for now but there will be more questions, for sure! Thank you for any help/info you can share.

 

[Oldpath05]

1>The pto shaft needs to the right length, if a little to long it could break the pto output shaft on the tractor, proper measurement is required, best to have a local dealer do that or get some good intel on it, also the plastic guard has to put back over the pto shaft.

2> straightest pull is best on a heavy log, bucket on ground, brakes on, winch down making sure one side on winch blade is NOT on a stump/rock. My cable is 5/16", broke numerous times, never whipped back like a synthetic rope can and that's when people get hurt. Mine just drops, then I try to make sure it doesn't rewind back inside the winch, if it does stuff has to taken apart to get the cable back out. Best to winch/pull rope with one foot against tire or winch for best view of what going on and do watch what's going on, winch with no more power than necessary.

3> But end usually skids easier, to help from digging in ground you can cut the but flanges off, cut the log into or by one of them skidding cones. Can also make short skids to a trailer than put the log on a trailer for a stay cleaner result.

 

[KubotaGirl001]

1>The pto shaft needs to the right length, if a little to long it could break the pto output shaft on the tractor, proper measurement is required, best to have a local dealer do that or get some good intel on it, also the plastic guard has to put back over the pto shaft.

2> straightest pull is best on a heavy log, bucket on ground, brakes on, winch down making sure one side on winch blade is NOT on a stump/rock. My cable is 5/16", broke numerous times, never whipped back like a synthetic rope can and that's when people get hurt. Mine just drops, then I try to make sure it doesn't rewind back inside the winch, if it does stuff has to taken apart to get the cable back out. Best to winch/pull rope with one foot against tire or winch for best view of what going on and do watch what's going on, winch with no more power than necessary.

3> But end usually skids easier, to help from digging in ground you can cut the but flanges off, cut the log into or by one of them skidding cones. Can also make short skids to a trailer than put the log on a trailer for a stay cleaner result.

Thank you for the excellent info, Oldpath. I never knew there was such thing as a skidding cone. Definitely going to look into that.

 

[Jstpssng]

Always pull straight to the back of the winch never from the side, or you may flip your tractor. When possible I run my choker under the butt of the log, so that the end will lift when I apply tension. As time goes on you will learn the limitations of your winch and how to maximize it. Your manual can also give a lot of useful tips. Above all, take your time. I.E. if a log gets hung up on a stump, stop and assess rather than trying to force it over. Breaking something or getting injured takes more time in the long run.

.

 

[motownbrowne]

It'd be good if you could spend some time with someone who knows their way around these machines. Anyone in your area who could spend a day with you?

Barring that, next best would be a phone conversation with someone who's used one a fair amount. I'm no expert by any means, but I've spent a decent amount of time working with my farmi winch. If you have any interest, please feel free to PM me for my number. I'm sure any of the other folks on here would do the same. Gordon Gould, Sawyer Rob, oldpath come to mind.

 

[jaxs]

Get at least two 20,000 Lb snatch blocks. Yes,double rating of winch because a busted block is 5 times dangerous as snapped cable. They alow pulling logs at odd angles while keeping straight pull on cable as it spools onto winch. A block alow's for easily doubling pulling power of winch withut increased strain on cable. Snatch blocks are also handy for pulling over a bank or across a creek. Always use a choker and never wrap winch cable around logs.
Best money you can spend is hiring an experienced helper to learn from. Due to risks of injury,you shouldn't work alone anyhow.

 

[CobyRupert]

With the winch on, but pto disconnected, you can raise the 3pth and winch so that the pto shaft would be perfectly level if connected. This is the shortest distance the pto shaft ever needs to telescope to. If, in this position, the shaft is short enough to connect to the tractor’s pto you’re good. Else pull the shaft apart and cut the part in your hand shorter.

When winching, keep one eye on the log, one eye on the cable at the winch (to confirm it’s moving and you’re not burning the winch’s clutch), and one eye on the tractor (that you’re not pulling it backwards). Helps if you’re a tri-clops.

When winching, I just stand to the side to see all the above and feel relatively safe that I’m out of way if cable snaps. Any failures I’ve had was a snap at the choker chain end and cable lost energy before it could make it to anywhere close to the tractor.

Trees winch and pull way easier from butt end.

When winching past stumps, rocks, etc.. that tree may get stuck on, I usually have winch cable pulling from the top pulley of winch and don’t use the lower pulley. Yes, this puts more force on your top link, but helps lift the log over obstacles.

It took me a while to get choker chains to stay on. Especially when grabbing multiple logs or falling off from vibrations when you’re first taking up slack. Snap hooks help, but mine get bent beyond use after awhile. I find it best to run the choker hook under log, and then hook it to cable slack you pull over the top of the log at the “back” side of the log away from the winch. The open side of the hook facing away from the winch. This way gravity on the hook, and the weight of the cable going back to the winch keeps the hook tight and on when you start winching.

Winches are good if you hang up a tree and want to safely pull it down, but remember that if the bottom of the tree doesn’t slide towards you as expected , and (surprise!) becomes the hinge point, the top of the tree is coming at you. Keep your distance.

 

[TnAndy]

Get at least two 20,000 Lb snatch blocks. Yes,double rating of winch because a busted block is 5 times dangerous as snapped cable. They alow pulling logs at odd angles while keeping straight pull on cable as it spools onto winch. A block alow's for easily doubling pulling power of winch withut increased strain on cable. Snatch blocks are also handy for pulling over a bank or across a creek. Always use a choker and never wrap winch cable around logs.
Best money you can spend is hiring an experienced helper to learn from. Due to risks of injury,you shouldn't work alone anyhow.

I've never had need for more than one snatch block, and don't think that much capacity is needed on a tractor winch.....the clutch on the winch will give before the block. Full sizer logging skidder, sure, but not a tractor winch.

The one I use is a Jet brand. 2ton, 6" wheel. It weighs 17lbs. Going to a 4 ton, 8" wheel (largest one Jet currently makes) increases the weight to 43lb. I can't imagine what a 10ton one would weigh, 100lbs or so ? or how you'd lug it around in the woods.

$209.12 Canadian here:

Jet 136 6" Single Sheave Painted Snatch Block

If a log gets hung up, release the tension on the cable. Walk back to a mid point in the cable and with a short hunk of chain, attach the block to a tree or something solid. There is a plate on the side of the block that opens to allow you to put the winch cable in the block, then flips/locks shut.

Walk back to the tractor and pull down on the control handle for the winch. The log will now move at an angle to the straight line pull, clearing what was binding it before (usually another tree or stump), moving toward the snatch block. Once you have it clear, stop....walk back and take the cable back out of the block, resume your straight pull to the tractor.

You can see the orange painted Jet block hanging on the left side of my winch with the side plate open in this photo.

 

[jaxs]

I've never had need for more than one snatch block, and don't think that much capacity is needed on a tractor winch.....the clutch on the winch will give before the block. Full sizer logging skidder, sure, but not a tractor winch.

The one I use is a Jet brand. 2ton, 6" wheel. It weighs 17lbs. Going to a 4 ton, 8" wheel (largest one Jet currently makes) increases the weight to 43lb. I can't imagine what a 10ton one would weigh, 100lbs or so ? or how you'd lug it around in the woods.

$209.12 Canadian here:

Hey Kabota girl,I lug this one around in my coat pocket and it's so simple there's no need for instructions. Check it out on Ebay.

HD 22,000 lbs Snatch Block 10 TON Recovery Winch Pulley Off Road ATV UTV Tow
Brand New
$24.40
List price:
Previous Price
$29.99
Buy It Now
Free Shipping

 

[KubotaGirl001]

Wow, thank you all so much for taking the time to explain with such detail! I am so grateful for all this advice and expertise. I'm soaking it all up and re-reading the comments to make sure I didn't miss one thing that is said. Please keep sharing your experiences. The snatch block pulley for pulling across streams or up a bank is a great one. Jaxs, I thought going over a bank or across stream was a limiting factor for the winch but using the snatch block to get past that is great to know! I am starting to get a clearer picture of the winch's abilities and limitations. I did buy a Wallenstein 8,000 lb self-release snatch block when I bought the winch and picking them up this morning.

 

[dougtrr2]

I just purchased a Farmi winch and have not really used it much yet. But a couple things I have gleaned. You can cut the PTO shaft yourself. Mine came with instructions and there are a number of YouTube videos also. But, on my tractor the 3 point geometry is such that parallel is not the shortest point. As you go above parallel the distance gets shorter.

I think it was on the Farmi site that there were several good videos on using the winch. One of the "duh" techniques they showed was related to soggy ground. If it get muddy,etc just let the winch cable out until you get to solid ground and then winch the logs back up.

Doug in SW IA

 

[TnAndy]

Hey Kabota girl,I lug this one around in my coat pocket and it's so simple there's no need for instructions. Check it out on Ebay.

HD 22,000 lbs Snatch Block 10 TON Recovery Winch Pulley Off Road ATV UTV Tow
Brand New
$24.40
List price:
Previous Price
$29.99
Buy It Now
Free Shipping

I'll venture a wild guess and say apparently pound ratings are measured quite differently if that lightweight little thing is rated 10 times what my Jet block is.

 

[Gordon Gould]

Start with smaller logs to get a feel for things. Logs you can roll with a peavey if you have to. Set your tractor RPM low to start, at around 12 or 1300. This will give you time to react. Your 7060 has plenty of torque at this RPM so you aren't losing any pulling power. If you are going to pull big logs with a winch you will make a furrow. Usually it is mostly just duff but you will dig thru the tops of uneven ground. To avoid that wait til the ground is frozen.

Just work slow and pay attention. Do not try to take short cuts if things do not go as planned. That is where most accidents happen. Stop, reassess what you need to do and continue on. It is a learning experience. You will recognize a good winch path from a poor one after some experience. Follow the good advice given above. Work safe and have fun.

EDIT: I should add - Watch out for dead trees. they can come down easy. If your incoming log should hit a dead tree in front of you it can come down on you quicker than you can imagine !! Same goes for driving in the woods. Any dead trees around your tractor roads should be removed. If you are jigging around for position and your bucket or winch hits a dead tree or shakes a good tree with dead branches above they will come down on you or your tractor.

gg

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I'll venture a wild guess and say apparently pound ratings are measured quite differently if that lightweight little thing is rated 10 times what my Jet block is.

I have several of the $25 ones from HF, look at the size bush and axle they have, no wonder they are rated so strong

I've double lined them and pulled like crazy on them with my winch and the only thing I've done to any of them, was to pull them apart, clean them and put some synthetic grease on the axle...

They aren't quick release, but they have worked just fine for me, double lined or to redirect a log ect...

SR

 

[John_Mc]

Wow, thank you all so much for taking the time to explain with such detail! I am so grateful for all this advice and expertise. I'm soaking it all up and re-reading the comments to make sure I didn't miss one thing that is said. Please keep sharing your experiences. The snatch block pulley for pulling across streams or up a bank is a great one. Jaxs, I thought going over a bank or across stream was a limiting factor for the winch but using the snatch block to get past that is great to know! I am starting to get a clearer picture of the winch's abilities and limitations. I did buy a Wallenstein 8,000 lb self-release snatch block when I bought the winch and picking them up this morning.

If you have the self-releasing snatch block, you already have one of the best options you can add to your winch. You can't beat being able to winch around a corner without have to stop and walk back to release the block.

 

[motownbrowne]

If you have the self-releasing snatch block, you already have one of the best options you can add to your winch. You can't beat being able to winch around a corner without have to stop and walk back to release the block.

It should be noted though that that self releasing block would not be suitable for use as a doubling block since the working load limit is well below what the winch would produce in that situation.

 

[Rustyiron]

Before you get into the woods, don't forget to crawl under your tractor and look at all the pretty, vulnerable, expensive & shiny parts under there.
The most innocent looking 1" stick kicked up by your front tires can poke a hole in a hydraulic filter (rear right side) or snag a loader line. :thumbsup:
It's a touch machine but designed for field work when it comes to it's very soft "belly". Be safe, have fun!

 

[1bush2hog]

Take some strong help with you that has good legs. After pulling that winch cable out, and carrying skidding chains, a time or two by yourself, on a few long and/or steep runs, you will be glad you did.

Put some key hole sliders on your main winch cable in addition to having a larger hook on the end. This will enable hooking multiple logs up at different locations before you start pulling so you can pull more than one out at a time. Also put choker hooks on your skidding chains.

I don't have one on mine, but the protective metal screens that bolt to the winch help keep the operator safe

See every move in your mind BEFORE you start pulling - check trees in the pull area that are dead or have dead tops that could possibly fall your way if the log you are skidding bumps the base of the tree.

You don't need a lot of RPMs to pull a lot of weight. Start out low and slow when using your winch until you gain some experience.

Refer back to first suggestion again

Good Luck and stay safe and have fun!

 

[Coyote machine]

To the OP, you like safety, and that's a good way to go, especially with something as potentially dangerous as a logging winch. First and foremost, ALWAYS wear gloves when connecting to your winch cable, choker chains, snatch blocks etc. Keep away from the cable ends where they are swedged from the factory. The little cut end pieces will puncture skin without any effort.
If your hair is long, ALWAYS wear it up, and use a screened face chainsaw helmet with ear muffs to protect your head, eyes and hearing.

Try to keep your cable from twisting while winching in. Never let the cable slide through your hands, even with gloves on. Don't even run your hand along the cable with the winch cable not in use. Broken strands of cable can be anywhere along the cable length. ONLY hold on to the cable hook at the end when pulling the cable out to your load location.

Periodically hook your cable onto a tree or other immovable object and drive the tractor away from the object to allow the entire cable or close to the full length off the drum it winds onto. Then reel the tractor back to the object; easy way is to have a driver on the tractor while you pull the cable lever, while the cable winds back onto the drum. This keeps the cable from getting pinched at spots that overlap while spooling back onto the drum during use. Your winch will work smoother and less chance of pinching or the cable unwinding some areas of the tightly wound multiple strands.

While in learning stages you can take an old blanket and throw it over the cable say 1/2 way between the winch and your attached log load. If the cable were to snap for some reason, the blanket would absorb some of the tension and would allow the cable to more likely drop to the ground instead of trying to whiplash back toward you.
You may experience some slippage as the new cable tightens on the drum during your first number of pulls. This would be considered normal.

The picture of the blue tractor with the orange snatch block has a plow lip at the bottom of the rearward facing edge. Ideally you would tilt your winch so the edge is angled to dig into the ground so pulling the winch cable toward the tractor will NOT pull the tractor toward your log. Tish is SOP for winches mounted to tractor PTO 3PH's ( SOP: std. operating procedure, PTOower take off 3PH: 3 point hitch). So your tractor's rear tires should face the load, (log) you want to winch in, and the winch should be angled with it's top section further away from the tractor than the bottom edge; again so as to resist the tractor/winch from being pulled toward your load when the winch is in use. So your winch to tractor PTO spline needs to be able to slide, by being properly greased for use BEFORE installing to the tractor/PTO & winch, and it needs enough length to accommodate the backward lean spoken about above. However, the drive shaft and shaft (covers) need to be long enough to allow for this but NOT too long, which could cause binding if the winch is lifted too high off the ground. ALWAYS turn your tractor off before going anywhere near the PTO shaft, even when the guard is on the shaft. Long hair and long sleeves above rules apply here; beware even after tractor is turned off the PTO shaft can still be winding down for a minute or so. Do not approach until the shaft is still.

Lastly, for now, using a snatch block, (I use a 'clam shell' type block) can be setup to double the winches pulling power.
How this effect is accomplished is better explained by those who use this technique on a regular basis, than by me.
I also suggest you have someone nearby but out of the danger zone of your work in case you were to need assistance. Next best solution is carrying a cell phone that works in the work area, or a Walkie with someone with another radio within range; test it before beginning work to verify clear communication.

 

[Grandad4]

Was going to suggest a self-releasing snatch block. Great time and step saver.

Another suggestion relates to the cable. Cable breakages often occur at points on the line where a previous hang-up has kinked the cable so the strands do not take the load of subsequent pulls evenly. So, as others say, it's best to clear a snag instead of continuing to pull on it with the winch. Similarly, periodically cleaning and lubing the cable will minimize damage from rust and debris.

Pull at the lowest rpm that the tractor will drive the winch. There is a slip clutch in the winch that should prevent the tractor from stalling in case of a snag. It may eventually need adjusting if it isn't releasing properly.

Most winches have an upper and a lower pulley. The upper pulley position lifts the front of the log being pulled higher, reducing the potential for a snag, but the lower position has less potential for a roll-over. I usually just used the lower pulley because it puts less load on the top link of the 3 point when making a pull. Overloading of the top link may eventually cause damage to the rear end of the tractor, with some tractors being more vulnerable than others.

And one more vote for making straight pulls! The greater the angle off-center for the pull, the more risk of a tractor roll-over if there's a snag.