Need water advice

[gcp]

According to a phone app. the distance between my barn and the closest part of the pond is 277 ft. I figure I can run underground power down there easy enough and bury next to it a pex pipe thus utilizing a submersible pump to push the water up to the containers with a float to cut off waterflow once containers are full and turn off pump each time we depart.

Now I must figure out needed wire gauge for the 280ft electrical run and the right size of pex pipe necessary for quick effective refills...or I can even utilize the 3/4" tubing I already have at hand. Decisions decisions LOL!



Pics of the pond and the barn.

The water line is on this side of the mobile home

View from our screen room

 

[newbury]

<snip> since I've noticed that even though the water freezes within the container the integrity of the tank is still in tact. I can always drop a heating element in them for the winter months I guess but for the time I'll need to locate/purchase a coupling for its quarter turn faucet so I can install a water hose for easier water transport to the house.

I'm going to get a heat tape or immersion heater to drop in the tank.
There are 3 or so different type fittings commonly found on the tanks. There's a youtube video showing each different type. I initially ginned up several pieces to adapt to a faucet:


but I found a solution on line that was designed for my totes: 2-in-female-camlock-to-3-4-in-male-garden-thread-adapter.

 

[gcp]

Yep, exactly the same fitting I found online, thanks a bunch for the lead & the pic newbury! It'll be easy enough to fabricate.

 

[Redlands Okie]

Pretty views. Keep in mind to allow for wire running up or down from the BOTTOM of the ditch into your control panels or boxes. Also your ditch may not be as straight as you prefer when your done. It all adds to the length of the wire.

 

[CobyRupert]

Deep well jet pump located in house or barn: No 280' oversized electric cable in trench to pond required.

But if pump is at pond, the general rule is to shoot for less than a 3% voltage drop.

If you go with a (say) 1/2 hp pump at the pond. At 120V, (9.8 amps) you'd want at least a #6 Awg cable to compensate for voltage drop at 280', which is a big upsize to get a 2.25% voltage drop.

At 240V (4.9 amps), a #12 AWG would be okay at about a 2.25% voltage drop, but for a few more dollars use a #10AWG to get a ~1.5% voltage drop.

 

[gcp]

Deep well jet pump located in house or barn: No 280' oversized electric cable in trench to pond required.

But if pump is at pond, the general rule is to shoot for less than a 3% voltage drop.

If you go with a (say) 1/2 hp pump at the pond. At 120V, (9.8 amps) you'd want at least a #6 Awg cable to compensate for voltage drop at 280', which is a big upsize to get a 2.25% voltage drop.

At 240V (4.9 amps), a #12 AWG would be okay at about a 2.25% voltage drop, but for a few more dollars use a #10AWG to get a ~1.5% voltage drop.

Coby, thank you for the detailed info! And knowing the distances involved, what specific Jet Pump would you recommend? Personal recommendations based on success mean a lot to me!

Redlands, thank you! As I've stated our deep woods property is our serenity....when we're not dealing with water issues

 

[pmsmechanic]

Seems to me that you could run the pump at the house or the barn and just run two pipes to the pond. The jet can be in the pond and then you don't need to run power to the pond. I don't know what the distances are for a remote jet, jet pump. Maybe someone else knows.

 

[CobyRupert]

My experience with deep well jet pumps is only from maintaining one at the house I grew up in that my Mom still lives in.
I'd talk to your local well/plumbing supply for what (deep well) jet pump system they'd recommend. Wayne, Myers & Gould brand are a few. You'll also need the foot valve at the pond.
This would be a unique set up, because even though you're 280' away, that's horizontal. I don't think the horizontal distance is that significant as compared to the lift height. You've said the rise is only a bit over 20'. Deep well jet pumps are used on wells to lift water 80' to 100'.

 

[LouNY]

I have used a few jet pumps and have never been favorably impressed with them. Seem to need more horsepower for the same water flow as compared to a submersible, and instead of having to run power they needed two water lines. To me a 1/4 or 1/3 hp submersible with the remote starter box would be a nicer more reliable system and using 220 volt #12 well cable would be more then adequate. And now to muddy the water so to speak, have you ever wanted power at the pond? Run a #8 power feed to a small breaker box power the well pump from it and have power available at the pond for lights or whatever. enjoy.

 

[bspeedy]

If you buy a jet pump, you will regret it. They are a hassle.
A submersible on #12 wire and black coil plastic is the way to go. 280-feet is not a huge distance. My well is 600 feet deep and it's 350 feet from the house. That's a lot of #6 copper wire.
Myers is a good pump. If you pick another brand, try to get a Franklin motor.

 

[turnkey4099]

According to a phone app. the distance between my barn and the closest part of the pond is 277 ft. I figure I can run underground power down there easy enough and bury next to it a pex pipe thus utilizing a submersible pump to push the water up to the containers with a float to cut off waterflow once containers are full and turn off pump each time we depart.

Now I must figure out needed wire gauge for the 280ft electrical run and the right size of pex pipe necessary for quick effective refills...or I can even utilize the 3/4" tubing I already have at hand. Decisions decisions LOL!

View attachment 538851View attachment 538852

Pics of the pond and the barn.

The water line is on this side of the mobile home View attachment 538853

View from our screen room View attachment 538854

Use a minimum of 1" pipe. That is a long run and friction adds up.

 

[turnkey4099]

Deep well jet pump located in house or barn: No 280' oversized electric cable in trench to pond required.

But if pump is at pond, the general rule is to shoot for less than a 3% voltage drop.

If you go with a (say) 1/2 hp pump at the pond. At 120V, (9.8 amps) you'd want at least a #6 Awg cable to compensate for voltage drop at 280', which is a big upsize to get a 2.25% voltage drop.

At 240V (4.9 amps), a #12 AWG would be okay at about a 2.25% voltage drop, but for a few more dollars use a #10AWG to get a ~1.5% voltage drop.

A shallow well won't work due to the elevation distance. A deep well jet would have to be located at the pond or a real 'shade tree' lash up with two pipes up the slope, one runnind down to feed the jet, one up for the delivery. I'm not sure that would work. There may be something I'm missing tho in the use of a jet pump at house/barn.

 

[buickanddeere]

No idea why anyone would want to pump frog p|ss out of a pond for use . Start off with a sand point near the buildings. .

 

[MossRoad]

No idea why anyone would want to pump frog p|ss out of a pond for use . Start off with a sand point near the buildings. .

Yeah, don't drink the water, fish poop in it.

 

[gcp]

Buick, thanks for the good morning frogpiss chuckle....and as for the fish, they do more than poop in it that's why I drink single malt LOL!

Still studying/figuring before I jump in with both feet. A second problem which I've not mentioned is balancing the filter with the 2nd pump that'll push the water to the house, plus I'll have to come up with a way to evacuate all of the water, or keep it warm, within the house in the winter months because there's not heat in the place when we're not there and the last thing we'll need is breaking pumps/peripherals.

 

[PILOON]

We are on a lake that is spring fed with no inlets as we are at the head of a water chain.
80% of us use the lake water and consequently as an association we analyze annually at 20 different locations but always the same sites for comparison.
Always +/- 1 or 0 coliform counts.
Most drink as it comes.
The time proven pumping system is a deep well self priming artesian unit with 12 GPM 1/2hp being quite satisfactory in most cases.
Our water lines are generally 1" 'blue poly B' as used in deep artesian wells.
Due to frost level we try to bury 4' but I know of many that are near surface due to rock formations in which case either insulation is used and or heat tracing lines.
Drilling a well is a 400ft $12,000. expense otherwise.
Most of these lake installations (including mine) are now aged 20 years and trouble free so far.
One consideration is that the artesian well pump is meant to be in a vertical configuration so we build a metal 'rack' to have the pump close to vertical.
An advantage is these pumps are therefor always self priming.
Typically it would be difficult to spend more than $1000.00 on such an installation and that vs a drilled 400 ft $12,000. expense thus making it a 'no brainer'.
Many have added infrared purification systems simply to be on the safe side.
The principal negative is that banks demand a water test before a mortgage will be considered, but then they also demand a septic report as well.

 

[buickanddeere]

Ultra Violet purification. It only works when there is no mud, silt, sediment or particulate in the water.

 

[gcp]

Piloon, great info, thanks!

buick, you just described my pond to a T. I only wish the spring that feeds my property was not 400yards within my neigbor's property and especially since this water feeds my pond only and nothing else. BTW this is a wooded area with no farming, and no sprays of any sort.

 

[gcp]

Piloon, do you feed the pond water directly to your house or do you fill a cistern first and then pipe it to the house?

Also you state "One consideration is that the artesian well pump is meant to be in a vertical configuration so we build a metal 'rack' to have the pump close to vertical." Can you please quick sketch this rack or possibly even provide a pic?

 

[buickanddeere]

Piloon, great info, thanks!

buick, you just described my pond to a T. I only wish the spring that feeds my property was not 400yards within my neigbor's property and especially since this water feeds my pond only and nothing else. BTW this is a wooded area with no farming, and no sprays of any sort.
View attachment 539377

Includes invisible particulate. Any bit of mass that can shade a critter from UV is a problem.