Quality Electric Lot Splitter?

[LD1]

8.8 amps on 240V is a pretty weak 3hp, REALLY it's barely a 2hp, no matter what they call it.

11 amps on 240V is a STRONG 2hp motor, 15 amps on 240V would be what a 3hp motor should draw!

SR

3-phase

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Well, THAT certainly makes it better!

Still not a strong 3hp though...

AND, if you are running it on a phase converter, that makes for a bit more loss...

SR

 

[4570Man]

Well, THAT certainly makes it better!

Still not a strong 3hp though...

AND, if you are running it on a phase converter, that makes for a bit more loss...

SR

It's probably a VFD and the VFD draws more amps than the motor.

 

[LD1]

Yes it's off a vfd.
It's just a standard run of the mill baldor tefc 3hp. (Gold paint). Don't remember exact amps. Just a basic motor.

Quieter and cheaper than running the gas motor. Tried a few 5hp motors I had, and the drive wouldn't start them. Started this one no prob. And don't go over FLA. Not worried. Got nothing in the motor.

 

[4570Man]

If you were trying to run it continuously on high pressure you'd likely burn up a 3hp motor, but you're not.

 

[jerrybob]

I've heard mixed reviews on their full size version. I can't imagine that to be much use. As the 10 ton hydraulic they claimed it out splits. I've got a 7 ton hydraulic that's about useless.

Thanks.......probably not worth it.....will not buy.

 

[goeduck]

Thanks.......probably not worth it.....will not buy.

I have been thinking of getting one of those to keep just inside the garage for the simple 2 way straight grain splits (not big rounds or crotches). Also for those pieces where my eyes were bigger than my stove opening when doing in the initial split.

 

[triptester]

Ramsplitter has a 20 ton H/V splitter with a 2hp. electic motor.
2 Ton

Swisher also makes a 22 ton electric splitter
22 Ton Timber Brute Eco Split 12 Volt Electric Full Frame Log Splitter LS22E - Log Splitters

 

[LD1]

The issue I have with the electric versions is I think the motors are just too undersized.

Most certainly not designed for continuous duty. Or longevity for that matter. And the math simply doesnt work.

Swisher for example, uses a 2hp 120v motor and what they claim is a 10gpm pump. But under pump detail they list it as an 8.8/1.6. That usually means 8.8gpm on high flow low pressure, and 1.6 gpm on high pressure low flow.

Now its no secret that log splitter MFG's fudge the tonnage numbers. But usually they are right on the money for calculated cycle time.
Swisher uses a 4x24 cylinder. With 10gpm its closer to 14.4, but the true 8.8gpm of the pump puts it closer to 16 seconds.

Now I cannot confirm any of this, and dont know what the real world cycle is, but the more important issue is motor HP. A 2HP motor, with 1.6gpm on the high pressure side.....should only be operating up to a max of 1820psi. Which would only yield about 11.5t of splitting.

But as with any electric motor, they are very very hard to stall. They just continue to draw amps to overcome. Eventually leading to a burnt up motor.

To actually get 2500psi out of a 1.6gpm pump, you actually need 3HP to do that.

The ramsplitter says it uses an 11gpm pump, paired with a 3.5" cylinder. Now on paper it should cycle in ~9.6seconds, but they claim a more realistic 12 seconds. so thats believable. But while everyone fudges the tonnage numbers up a bit......this one takes the cake. Claiming a full 20t out of a small 3.5" cylinder, that at 2500psi would only make 12t.

But the same issue with the motor. I have seen 11gpm pumps come a few different ways. With varying high pressure stages. Some as high as 3.5gpm on high stage, and down to under 2. Assuming this is under two. Still "should" have a 3HP motor.

And with the really small second stage, they are really slow when high power is required. About half that of the pumps normally paired with a gas motor, because the second stage can be up in the 3-3.5gpm range on the 11gpm pumps.

I understand the convenience of 120v. But a 3hp motor is really needed IMO. But that would require a 30a curcuit.

Again, no real world experience with anyones electric offerings other than the one I converted. But I wonder....those of you that do have electric.....ever have breaker trip issues? Full cycle and dead head pump (make it build full pressure)....does breaker blow? Cause I guess thats about the only thing saving a 2HP motor from ceratin failure on these splitters is the fact that most are probably used ona 20a circuit.

Its a shame more companies dont make an "actual" electric splitter.....sized right......and for continuous duty. And for bigger pumps too, like 16 and 22gpm pumps. Would be nice to unplug the welder or air compressor, plug in a 240v splitter.....and have all the power and speed of a good commercial unit.

 

[triptester]

While I will agree that most splitter tonnage and cycle times are usually exaggerated . There are many different types of electric motors that may have the same hp. rating but different capabilities . Shaded pole, split phase, capacitor start, capacitor run, induction, etc.. Different types of electric motors is like comparing diesel to gas engines of the same hp..

 

[LD1]

While I will agree that most splitter tonnage and cycle times are usually exaggerated . There are many different types of electric motors that may have the same hp. rating but different capabilities . Shaded pole, split phase, capacitor start, capacitor run, induction, etc.. Different types of electric motors is like comparing diesel to gas engines of the same hp..

2hp is 2hp when it comes to an electric motor running a pump. The pump dont care.

The pumps dont make pressure. They create flow.

when that flow encounters resistance, it makes pressure up unit the relief opens....2500psi probably.

For that to happen on the pumps being used......that needs about 3HP input.

An undersized combustion engine will just stall. Electric motors are capable of producing ALOT more than their nameplate HP before they actually stall. This is VERY hard on a motor and leads to shorter life. 2HP is simple undersized.....period. If that pump and motor combo were used in a continuous duty application where 2500 PSI is maintained, that motor wouldnt last 15 min without letting out the magic smoke.

Diesel vs gas hp. No difference. Same thing. There is NO torque number used in the formulas for sizing a hydraulic pump. And thats for a reason. HP is what matters. Gas and diesel make no difference.

 

[TheMan419]

Isn't that link supposed to read "20 ton"? That's what they're advertising...

Tbn filters out the zeros in all links for your convenience.

 

[ultrarunner]

I have some air handlers at work on the job since 1995... they have 10 and 20 hp Baldor 3 phase motors... in 22 years I have only replace one bearing on one motor that was noisy... the motors run 24/7 for months at a time and are made in USA

Maybe some motors are just better built and under rated by the manufacturer?

 

[4570Man]

The issue I have with the electric versions is I think the motors are just too undersized.

Most certainly not designed for continuous duty. Or longevity for that matter. And the math simply doesnt work.

Swisher for example, uses a 2hp 120v motor and what they claim is a 10gpm pump. But under pump detail they list it as an 8.8/1.6. That usually means 8.8gpm on high flow low pressure, and 1.6 gpm on high pressure low flow.

Now its no secret that log splitter MFG's fudge the tonnage numbers. But usually they are right on the money for calculated cycle time.
Swisher uses a 4x24 cylinder. With 10gpm its closer to 14.4, but the true 8.8gpm of the pump puts it closer to 16 seconds.

Now I cannot confirm any of this, and dont know what the real world cycle is, but the more important issue is motor HP. A 2HP motor, with 1.6gpm on the high pressure side.....should only be operating up to a max of 1820psi. Which would only yield about 11.5t of splitting.

But as with any electric motor, they are very very hard to stall. They just continue to draw amps to overcome. Eventually leading to a burnt up motor.

To actually get 2500psi out of a 1.6gpm pump, you actually need 3HP to do that.

The ramsplitter says it uses an 11gpm pump, paired with a 3.5" cylinder. Now on paper it should cycle in ~9.6seconds, but they claim a more realistic 12 seconds. so thats believable. But while everyone fudges the tonnage numbers up a bit......this one takes the cake. Claiming a full 20t out of a small 3.5" cylinder, that at 2500psi would only make 12t.

But the same issue with the motor. I have seen 11gpm pumps come a few different ways. With varying high pressure stages. Some as high as 3.5gpm on high stage, and down to under 2. Assuming this is under two. Still "should" have a 3HP motor.

And with the really small second stage, they are really slow when high power is required. About half that of the pumps normally paired with a gas motor, because the second stage can be up in the 3-3.5gpm range on the 11gpm pumps.

I understand the convenience of 120v. But a 3hp motor is really needed IMO. But that would require a 30a curcuit.

Again, no real world experience with anyones electric offerings other than the one I converted. But I wonder....those of you that do have electric.....ever have breaker trip issues? Full cycle and dead head pump (make it build full pressure)....does breaker blow? Cause I guess thats about the only thing saving a 2HP motor from ceratin failure on these splitters is the fact that most are probably used ona 20a circuit.

Its a shame more companies dont make an "actual" electric splitter.....sized right......and for continuous duty. And for bigger pumps too, like 16 and 22gpm pumps. Would be nice to unplug the welder or air compressor, plug in a 240v splitter.....and have all the power and speed of a good commercial unit.

Motors over 5 hp single phase are are rare. Even if they exist I'm not sure how big you could practically go. Edit I found a 15 hp single phase motor but it's $1350 and pulls 57 amps at 230 volts.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Single phase over 5hp are not rare, they just get very expensive as the hp goes up.

I've seen them up to 15hp, but they draw a massive amp load.

SR

 

[PILOON]

There is only so much HP available on electrics on 110AC (even on 220).
While tonnage can be derived it will be at the sacrifice of flow (speed).
Basically on 110AC the most you can expect is 1 HP (with a quality*) motor. (forget offshore) and at that it would need to be a 3000 (or so) RPM simply to get some decent flow.

All to say that at best any electric will be considerably slower than any gas powered splitter.

*Like Leeson or Baldor

 

[4570Man]

All to say that at best any electric will be considerably slower than any gas powered splitter.

*Like Leeson or Baldor

Wrong. You're just going to have to toss the cheap or the single phase idea. I've got 3 phase power and the scrap yard is littered with 3 phase motors. It wouldn't cost much ( unless you're factoring in the high flow hoses and valves which cost a lot) for me to build an electric splitter to smoke a gasoline splitter. Problem is I don't have 3 phase where I want to split wood.

 

[goeduck]

The more I read the more I think electric is a good match for lower tonnage kinetic splitters with the flywheel as stored energy. No vertical positioning but on a low tonnage application (no big wood) you should be able to lift the wood.

 

[4570Man]

Anybody ever use one of these? Small logs.....good price???? Any feedback?

Log Splitter K1 Electric | DR Power Equipment

I found a good use for it.

 

[LD1]

I have some air handlers at work on the job since 1995... they have 10 and 20 hp Baldor 3 phase motors... in 22 years I have only replace one bearing on one motor that was noisy... the motors run 24/7 for months at a time and are made in USA

Maybe some motors are just better built and under rated by the manufacturer?

Motors arent underrated. They are rated for exactly what they can handle. Then there is a service factor (SF) on the nameplate. A good heavy duty industrial type motor is usually 1.15. That means that the motor is actually designed to handle 1.15 times its rated HP and FLA long term with no ill effects. Most homeowner stuff is usually 1.0. So anytime you go over on the current rating, you are doing irreversible damage. A good analogy I have always heard is similar to the way the doctors (and those safety videos) describe hearing loss. Effects are cumulative.

As to your 10 and 20HP motors that have lasted 22 years......

Running a motor, 24/7....under constant load and constant speed is the single best way to make a motor last. Constant starting and stopping, or varying loads.....that will wear out a motor faster.

At work, we have a pair of 300HP compressors. They run 24/7 constant load. Also have a 425HP compressor of the same make, but its the trim compressor. (variable speed) based on plant demands, it can vary its motor speed, and vary its loading to meet plant demands. And for the 3 years its been installed, that motor has been out and rebuild 4 different times.

Wrong. You're just going to have to toss the cheap or the single phase idea. I've got 3 phase power and the scrap yard is littered with 3 phase motors. It wouldn't cost much ( unless you're factoring in the high flow hoses and valves which cost a lot) for me to build an electric splitter to smoke a gasoline splitter. Problem is I don't have 3 phase where I want to split wood.

240v single phase is more than capable of powering splitters at the same rate as a gas motor. And they are not as rare as people think.

Most 11gpm pumps have a low speed of 1.7-1.8gpm and at 2500psi that needs 3HP
The 13gpm pumps are 2.9GPM on low That calls for 4.97 HP.....so a 5HP motor will do there
16gpm on second stage is 3.5gpm. That calls for 6HP.......so a 7.5HP motor is needed
A 22gpm pump on second stage is ~7gpm......so that would require 12hp........15HP needed

Surplus center has
3HP.....$500
5HP.....$800
7.5HP.....$931 (which pulls 32a)

Yes, 15hp single phase motors are harder to source, and would pull north of 60a. But just how many of us are using a 22gpm pump.

And for a 16gpm splitter....which is usually paired with an 8hp gasser.......just how does $900 compare to a quality (like honda) gasser?
And for the 11-13 gpm splitters, which are usually paired with a 5 or 6 HP gasser......just how does $500-$800 compare?

And is the slight increase in price, worth it to be able to split indoors and no fume yourself out, operate the splitter for alot less money, and not have to worry about maintenance issues associated with the gasser? Like oil changes, and carb issues associated with ethanol. Simply plug it in and know that it is gonna work.