Alcohol vs marijuana

[dieselcrawler]

The State of Vermont just released toxicology results on a driver that this past summer crossed the center line, hit a pickup and killed himself and three others with him. The toxicology results revealed that the driver was high on THC (marijuana ingredient). Although Vermont hasn't legalized recreational marijuana yet, we need to realize that just as someone who has too much alcohol in their system is a danger on our roads, that someone with too much THC in their system is also a danger.

What about the loss-of-life accidents where that person who just got off work from a night shift, who falls asleep at the wheel? I work nights, and often feel more impaired than the times I was years ago while high. There are cases to support nearly any scenario you want, if you look for them.

I work nights, and pull over and nap when I start nodding off... fingers crossed that I continue to do so early enough.

 

[wagne223]

By him saying he doesn't like the way it makes him feel, I take that to me he tried it and didn't like it.

Anywho... still a very civil conversation going on here.

You are correct, I drank Alcohol and smoked weed for a short period in my early twenties. Never mixed the 2, it was either or.
Regretfully on a hand full of occasions I drove under the influence of each.
Thankfully, I was in a rural town and I did not cause a crash.

That period, along with years of being around friends and family that use both is where my "experience " comes from.

 

[RSKY]

This made me chuckle.

The truckers drove electric powered tuggers that had a 2200 pound battery. One guy had bodies painted on the side for everybody he hit until he was removed from the job.


Have recently been indirectly involved in setting up a procedure where a school system gets food to kids who have nothing to eat on the weekends. The parents spend all their money on pot and booze.

Y'all see people smoking to relax. I see young parents neglecting their kids, beating their kids, and ignoring their kids.

I have little use for hard drinkers or drug users of any kind.

RSKY

 

[dieselcrawler]

The parents spend all their money on pot and booze.

Y'all see people smoking to relax. I see young parents neglecting their kids, beating their kids, and ignoring their kids.

I have little use for hard drinkers or drug users of any kind.

RSKY

Obviously not following my motto of 'All things in moderation'... which makes it easy to understand why your opinion is as it is.

There is a difference between the ones you reference, who have no self control and would be classified as addicted in my opinion, and the ones like myself and some others who drink one or 3 beers, and not the whole case in any given day. I smoked we nearly daily for 15 years, and went without when I had to, because bills and food came first.

 

[ovrszd]

Obviously not following my motto of 'All things in moderation'... which makes it easy to understand why your opinion is as it is.

There is a difference between the ones you reference, who have no self control and would be classified as addicted in my opinion, and the ones like myself and some others who drink one or 3 beers, and not the whole case in any given day. I smoked we nearly daily for 15 years, and went without when I had to, because bills and food came first.

I agree. Easy to condemn other's "inadequacies" while ignoring your own.

 

[Doofy]

Uh, didn't parents use to feed their children? Coulda swore that I did. Your kids ate before you did.

 

[Dadnatron]

Once MJ is lawful, then the next step we can take is to make cocaine lawful. Then as long as you are that far with stoners making the laws, why not heroin or any other mind altering drug. It is our own body and can do what we please with it (sarc..).

What is wrong with that line of thinking?

 

[Dadnatron]

The State of Vermont just released toxicology results on a driver that this past summer crossed the center line, hit a pickup and killed himself and three others with him. The toxicology results revealed that the driver was high on THC (marijuana ingredient). Although Vermont hasn't legalized recreational marijuana yet, we need to realize that just as someone who has too much alcohol in their system is a danger on our roads, that someone with too much THC in their system is also a danger.

So.... what you are saying is that despite the fact that it is ILLEGAL to smoke pot and drive in Vermont... it still happens. And THAT is an argument to keep it illegal? DUI is illegal and covers this issue. Vermont had a double whammy in that it is illegal to smoke it... and to drive while Under the Influence.

And yet... somehow the driver didn't get the memo?

 

[goeduck]

I think you live in an liberal environment to the extreme and are not in touch with the rest of the vast majority of America. Most of the rest of the country is looking to what happened in Colorado and the rest of the left coast as a gigantic mistake not to replicated.

My wife currently has two forms of cancer, she has cronic spinal issues, cronic arthritis issues, genetic issues, on and on. The traditional doctors can’t do much for her but thankfully we live in a “liberal environment” (your words) where she can legally buy pot with the CBD (not the stuff that makes a person “high”). The CBD is a miracle for her and allows her to walk and go and have lunch with her friends, etc. I no longer have to help her get out of bed and assist her around the house so it is a benefit to me as well. The country will eventually legalize pot, there is no stopping it in my opinion. What would my wife’s life be like in Texas? Please respond.

 

[3930dave]

What is wrong with that line of thinking?

It may not have been, but assuming that is a real question......

Concerning recreational drugs, my issue is what goes on in public spaces. Massive advances in vehicle design in the last 50 years have lead to safer vehicles - human nature being what it is, those changes have also lead to more spectacular high-speed accidents. Lives have been saved, including the idiots driving drunk/stoned causing the accidents.

It doesn't have to be driving related. Several coffee shops in this area have been evacuated due to people smashing up cars, building interiors, and waving knives around - any chance drugs were involved ?

Freedom to do what you want ? If somebody wants to hike out to a cabin in the middle of nowhere and get totally _________ up, burn the place down w/o starting a forest fire, or OD - then go for it.

But, the story doesn't usually go that way - people abusing drugs recreationally are causing massive problems on our roads and other public spaces. The "hidden" effects are still there, as has been touched on, within the households those people live in.

The choices we are talking about have huge impacts beyond the abuser, including sometimes fatal ones on total strangers.

Rgds, D.

 

[MacLawn]

Since I suffer daily fibromyalgia pain, spinal fusion pain, etc., this is interesting to me. I only read through page 3 so far, but y'all boys made some good posts. jerrybob, wow, wonder if I can get some of that gel in my states? I'll ask. I'm probably rare 1960s era Vietnam vet; when about 11, friend coaxed me into trying a coffin nail. Took about half a puff, that ended my smoking career. After high school I started drinking a bit of beer, maybe about 6 a week, but stopped after about a year. Ended my drinking career. Never sucked on marijuana at all. Friend in Vietnam offered me some, I said, no, hey man, you can get in big trouble with that mess! For my way of thinking, if it is good for medicinal use, good. Same with alcohol. But, whew, the people who have ruined MANY lives because of liquor abuse is so sad. One being a good friend who was instantly killed when a drunk jerk hit her broadside because he ran a stop sign, drunk. All of us know these anecdotes, and they hurt. So, which is worse? Probably alcohol.

 

[ovrszd]

Dave, I don't disagree with your concerns. But the statistics don't prove them correct.

My Son works for a tow service. The percentage of vehicle wrecks that involve Alcohol/Drugs is so small it's miniscule when compared to other causes. Biggest cause by a WIDE margin is inattentive driving. Cell phones, laptops, newspapers, books, applying makeup, tuning the radio, adjusting the heat/AC, dozing off, excessive speed, any pair of these exceed Alcohohl/Drugs.

They have had three wreckers totaled in the last three years. All three were hit by passing motorists when working a scene with all lights flashing. Twice the vehicle that hit them had both lanes of the Interstate hiway open. One was talking on the phone. One simply said they thought they were going to miss the wrecker. Misjudged that by about 2 feet. Totaled the wrecker and the Super Duty being driven. None of the three involved any altering drugs or alcohol, stoned sober.

Again, not condoning, just clarifying that society has a serious driving problem and the minimal part is alcohol/drug abuse.

 

[Rustyiron]

.

Again, not condoning, just clarifying that society has a serious driving problem and the minimal part is alcohol/drug abuse.

That's interesting, I can see it being true. These newer vehicles have a dashboard full of built in distractions. Many (esp. Nissan) seem to advertise that you don't need to pay attention anymore with all the "automatic safety features". :laughing:

 

[ovrszd]

That's interesting, I can see it being true. These newer vehicles have a dashboard full of built in distractions. Many (esp. Nissan) seem to advertise that you don't need to pay attention anymore with all the "automatic safety features". :laughing:

Oh Eric, now you've got me started!!!

There's a Nissan car commercial on now talking about all the great features. The last mentioned is automatic braking. The scenario is the father looking over his shoulder talking to his two kids in the back seat. A truck is stopped in front of him. Of course the Nissan saves the day and stops on it's own. The commercial ends with the kids in the back seat excitedly proclaiming that feature as AWESOME!!!!

Almost as brain cell destroying as GM's "Real people, not Actors" commercials.....

 

[Rustyiron]

Almost as brain cell destroying as GM's "Real people, not Actors" commercials.....

Oh they are comical and only getting dumber! Gotta be embarrassing to the "gen x'rs", millennia's or whatever group they're portraying. Could be today's average GM owner???? who knows. I'll go hide now:laughing:

 

[ovrszd]

Oh they are comical and only getting dumber! Gotta be embarrassing to the "gen x'rs", millennia's or whatever group they're portraying. Could be today's average GM owner???? who knows. I'll go hide now:laughing:

And in regards to GM, they don't need to do that. Just tell us the features of your vehicle that make it buyable. Why insult our intelligence? Does GM have that little respect for their buyers? Or are their buyers really that unaware? I'll go with you...

 

[dieselcrawler]

Reference post #212

Richard's son could likely give us more useful statistics than many of the 'studies' that are done in a fashion that makes them lean a certain way, and published to try to guide our thoughts and political votes. Those guys on the ground, at the scene, are a far more credible source to me than anything else. (Reports have to be true, I read it on the internet! )

The other aspect is the incidents that involve damage/injury w/o death. Someone gets killed, everyone goes in a tizzy. Somebody gets injured and lives, you don't hear much else. Still a statistic that is largely relivent here, still have our tax dollars paying for the emergency responders, still have our collective insurance rates at stake.

Not the topic in this thread, but relivent to me, my area, my neighbor the EMT, is the hard stuff and the idiots that OD on opioids, heroin, etc, MORE THAN ONCE! They show up, give them the 'save them from OD shot' and are back there doing the same thing a (week, month, some time) later to the same person. That's our tax dollars at work folks! There's your real issue, not weed. Not alcohol.

 

[Streetcar]

Maclawn
Hempworx is available in all States

 

[jerrybob]

Oh Eric, now you've got me started!!!

There's a Nissan car commercial on now talking about all the great features. The last mentioned is automatic braking. The scenario is the father looking over his shoulder talking to his two kids in the back seat. A truck is stopped in front of him. Of course the Nissan saves the day and stops on it's own. The commercial ends with the kids in the back seat excitedly proclaiming that feature as AWESOME!!!!

Almost as brain cell destroying as GM's "Real people, not Actors" commercials.....

That commercial would be so much better if the father was drinking a beer, smoking a joint and texting while looking over his shoulder.........Nissan would really have something to crow about. :laughing:

 

[3930dave]

Dave, I don't disagree with your concerns. But the statistics don't prove them correct.

My Son works for a tow service. The percentage of vehicle wrecks that involve Alcohol/Drugs is so small it's miniscule when compared to other causes. Biggest cause by a WIDE margin is inattentive driving. Cell phones, laptops, newspapers, books, applying makeup, tuning the radio, adjusting the heat/AC, dozing off, excessive speed, any pair of these exceed Alcohohl/Drugs.

They have had three wreckers totaled in the last three years. All three were hit by passing motorists when working a scene with all lights flashing. Twice the vehicle that hit them had both lanes of the Interstate hiway open. One was talking on the phone. One simply said they thought they were going to miss the wrecker. Misjudged that by about 2 feet. Totaled the wrecker and the Super Duty being driven. None of the three involved any altering drugs or alcohol, stoned sober.

Again, not condoning, just clarifying that society has a serious driving problem and the minimal part is alcohol/drug abuse.

Fatality Facts

IIHS only tracks alchohol >.08 in terms of substance abuse. I've known people that can't walk/talk properly well below .08.

Long ago, Transport Canada put together a program testing the driving skills of people impaired on various substances, on a closed course. Some of the most surprising results were with people who'd had just one drink, but were taking an OTC cough/cold/allergy medication. Yep, tells you not to do that on the consumer packaging, but plenty of people pay no attention.

There are lots of alcohol related crashes that don't show up in the official stats, and "other" drug impairments don't seemed to be tracked at all.

The 3 types of lies - Lies, **** Lies, and Statistics are one reason I pay attention to what has been going on at street-level....

EMS has it tough - even with all lights going at the side of the road, they still get hit, including by drivers not "on" something.

Police cruiser got folded in half by a dump-truck a few years back. Cruiser was parked on the side of the 401 w. lights ON, middle of Toronto, daylight, good weather. Fortunately, the LEO was not in the cruiser at the time.

The above reality being on my mind meant that the 2 times over the years that I've changed a flat on the side of an expressway meant that while I may never qualify for a NASCAR pit crew, my times on those 2 days were not that far off either :thumbsup: .

Friend of mine owns a heavy-tow company. Was put in hospital by a roadside hit like you describe. Woman driver was a known-heavy drinker that squeezed him between her vehicle and his truck. She took off and disappeared/hid the vehicle for long enough that no DUI charge could be made.

Summer long weekend about 2 years ago, a drunk dump-truck driver hit the Burlington Skyway bridge superstructure with his raised dump bed, at highway speed. All witnesses agreed, the guy was blotto drunk. Fast forward to the court case - it gets thrown out, as it took the OPP too long to administer the final blood test. Can't imagine why, they only had about a million vehicles to redirect off that bridge .

There are still significant accidents happening where alcohol is the primary cause, that don't show up in the official reporting.

But, you get no argument there from me Richard; there is a big problem in general with people doing everything but paying attention to their driving when behind the wheel. Those Nissan commercials you describe seriously irritate me too. I'll be surprised if Nissan doesn't get sued for portraying a soft-roader mall crawler blasting past heavy equipment operating in an off-highway scene.

Most of us recognize that the relatively strict (compared to 50 years ago) alcohol related driving laws have had a measurable impact on reducing drunk-driving to the lower levels of today. Few of us would want to rescind our drunk-driving laws.

My main point is that MJ impairment laws including reliable road-side impairment tests need to in place before it is actively marketed as a recreational tax-generating drug.

Rgds, D.