Work Question Regarding Call Back and Overtime.

[ultrarunner]

When I had a job that I did not like (for several different reasons), I just quit and moved to a different job or occupation. Worked until I was laid off at 74 years old, along with 15 others (most of which were "older"). Generally I liked what I was doing and where I was doing it or just moved on. Sometimes it was a "take this job and shove it". Sometimes it was I found a "better job". Sometimes it was straight commission....sometimes it was salary with bonus....sometimes it was time clock. I fit the job to my needs and went at it wholeheartedly.

Good Luck Ultra
Mike

Working to 74 sounds like you had a good handle on things... none of the men in my family have ever retired... worked until they dropped... the farming side it was more slowing down but still very much engaged.

If I had to be concise it would be Corp isn't following their own policies and procedures and the goal posts keep shifting... and reason is often no where to be found.

Not to get to far into the weeds...

A couple of months back the Fire Department was called... it was after my shift otherwise it would not have happened.

Policy is NO ONE enters a steril area unless dressed in Scrubs... no Street Clothes... makes perfect sense and the way it should be... 99.9% of the time.

But... the charge nurse stopped the Fire Department cold saying they could not enter with their Turn-Out gear and had to first go back to the staff locker rooms and change and their equipment would need to be wiped down first.

My thought is REALLY... and I heard about it from the Battalion Chief later...

We called 911 and Fire is Johnny on the spot and then told they have to change clothes first???

Either it is a 911 emergency or not... really made us look foolish... there I go again... saying "WE" and "Us" and was not even there.

 

[ultrarunner]

Tough situation for sure.

But quite simply you are not required to go in on call, nor do you receive call pay.

So if you continue to go in on call being a nice guy.....knowing that you dont have to.....you are basically agreeing that the company can take those hours back within the same pay period.

You have been given a simple directive.....dont exceed 40hrs a week. You can choose to work your normal work week to get that. Or you can go in on call and adjust schedule later.

I really think its time you be planning your exit though

At On-Boarding... HR said OT is built into the budget for my position but also said there is no On-Call provision so no obligation to respond... I can live with that.

What I was not expecting is OT now being a problem and the emphasis on Perfect Time Cards is number one priority... nothing takes the wind out of your sales hearing two weeks later you did a great job but we can't have a repeat...

 

[airbiscuit]

You've had a great run, but it might be time to admit you've won and move on.

If you do the balance sheet, and you are more happy than not, then stay. If not leave. If you fuss as much with them as you do on this forum, one has to wonder if you are viewed as a maintenance employee, or a "high maintenance" employee. Your bitterness towards the new company will affect you more than them.

I'm not saying that I agree with their methods, but one way or another, move on.

 

[ultrarunner]

I did submit my written resignation in April and this was after I turned down the on boarding Job Offer back in December because I could see no provision was made to do essential tasks that must be done for a Hospital to function.

Both times I was asked to stay with the promise that we just need to get through the period of adjustment... corp even sent out counselors company wide to Help manage change... it started with breathing exercises...

Managers and senior staff that resigned were told the same but left anyway... they were either Older or MUCH younger... two key Directors agreed to extend their two seek notice by 30 days which was above and beyond and it is a loss is still reverberating 6 months later... heck their pictures are still up in the break room from their last day...

I get it... it is not our company anymore... we were actually owners in that many of the long time employees held ESOP stock shares...

 

[flyerdan]

Sad to say, and I know it'll go against your grain, but you might have to let a few balls drop. When you get a call to go in, be in Denver for the weekend or some other inaccessible spot, advise them to call one of the women who wouldn't know what to do. When a few surgeries get canceled, the cutters will start squawking, maybe they'll listen to them.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Unfortunately what you describe is becoming typical. You can only talk with your feet, and they still dont care, because corp is not in the trenches doing the work.
Friend of mine left a hospital engineering job a couple yrs ago, says its the best decision he ever made. Especially for his health.

Place i used to work many yrs ago drove out all the Sr. Engineers to save money, then wondered how "we" let all the corporate knowledge leave. They promoted inept smoothtalking brownnosers who knew nothing about engineering, so i left. They just hired another, everyone is replaceable.

 

[downsizingnow48]

Ultra you are smart capable compassionate loyal. Do not throw your years away in a place where those qualities are not valued. Make the break soon.

 

[Citydude]

Living by the rules no matter what the circumstances shows a visionless management. Sounds like a management afraid of making decisions so they just hold up the rules and hide behind them.

Glad your nearing the end of your tenure there as things sound pretty bad for a good employee. The not so good employees will excel in that environment.

 

[3930dave]

As I said to somebody recently (about corporations) "I work for an accounting company, that just happens to have a few ______ lying around". Fill the blank in with whatever gets marketed to the public.

Nothing trumps the accounting, and HR is there pretty much exclusively to minimize corporate liability.

One of the reasons large corporations exist is that it is much simpler/easier/faster to buy the competition out, than compete at a higher level. After you go through this downward spiral once, many people just leave ASAP if they experience another corp takeover.

Getting things done in the real world mostly comes down to 2 things..... Make a Decision, then, Take Action. Someone who functions at a high level in those 2 areas (and is further encumbered with ethics, integrity.....) often doesn't do well in most large corp environments, as the only other corp priority other than the budget is avoiding Risk.

Often the people that do well in corporations mostly combine zero ethics with enough smarts to avoid getting publicly caught.

One upside to not fitting into today's corp world is that you can look yourself in the mirror in the morning. Been there, did that.

Rgds, D.

 

[ultrarunner]

There is a clear difference... the new fresh grads no nothing else and many are very good in that they are eager to learn and apply themselves.

What more often than not lately is a problem retaining talent... we put two years into a Surgical Nurse or Tech and something better comes along... can't blame them.

Not sure how many know the name Kaiser in Health Care? We have produced a lot of top notch people for Kaiser as they are super selective when it comes to experience and are people do real well there...

When the OR Director left... didn't even have a plan... just needed a break and took a month with his family and extended family... when he came home there were dozens of calls offering jobs... many of those he trained went to work at various Kaiser Hospitals so when the word got out he was made an offer he could not refuse... and he deserves it.

The reality in today's Healthcare is you take care of your RN's and the best OR Techs... everyone else can be outsourced...

This thread has helped me to work through my thinking process... those willing to move on have the best position when it comes to negotiation... as least in Real Estate.

 

[MossRoad]

You are being taken advantage of. Fill out a resume, apply for a few other jobs, and you may be surprised just how marketable you are.

I was at my last employer for 30 years. My job description when hired was to "learn all aspect of production." and I did. I could maintain, repair and operate ALL production equipment (machinery) AND all computer systems. I could do ANY job function. I also had to manage each of the 5 production departments for a week, after training with the department managers for a month. That gave me a very good view of how each person and asset fit into the big picture and how one person or asset not working could affect the entire process. During that time, I also spent two years working with an electrician in the plant doing repairs, retrofit and installation. Eventually, I got sucked up by I.T. and was involved with the installation, operation, maintenance, and training of users on ALL computer systems. Anyhow, I ended up with 25 years in I.T., doing all aspects... networking, hardware, software, servers, workstations, training PLUS helping with repairs on the production machinery. I was the only person in the entire company that knew what everyone else was doing and how they were doing it. They sent me to schools for weeks at a time. Brought in vendors for in-house schooling. They spent huge dollars on my education.

Then, out of the blue, aobut 5-6 years ago, corporate took over all I.T. operations... we went from 10 people in I.T. to 3 people. They took everything away from us, we had to train them, and then we were slowly let go. They took away my computers and they eliminated many managers and a couple departments. So 3 years ago, sensing my eminent termination (and having it confirmed by a friend with "old family blood), about 2 days before the evil I.T. people at corp could terminate me, I moved over to the night maintenance department. I've been working 7pm to 3am for the last 3 years. Good gig. No supervisors, just workers. Only person in my department at those hours. :thumbsup:

Then, back in May of this year, pretty unexpectedly, they outsourced all production. ALL production staff was told we would be let go in 6 weeks, and we'd have to stay to the end if we wanted our severance... 65 people gone.... most of my friends.

30 years.....

What the he$$ am I going to do now? Lots of angry people in the building. Lots of tears. Some broken equipment.

Well, I was ticked for about 2 hours after they told us. Then, I thought to myself, "MOVE ALONG!"

I got on the phone, made 1 call to a colleague in another line of work, and asked if he knew if they were hiring anyone in any positions? I had a job interview secured within 2 hours of being notified, attended the interview 4 days later, got offered the job that afternoon and started the day after my last day at my old job. I now know what I'll be doing for the next 10 years.

Officially, I'm retired from my old job. I got a meager severance package, but, in reality, I was paid for 30 years. I have a pension that was frozen with 19 years of service that I'll draw at 62. I have a 401K that they and I contributed to for the past 28 years. And all of the sick time I never used got converted to "health credits", that will pay for my health insurance for 2.5 years. They owe me nothing and I owe them nothing.

It's sad that I put so much of my personal feelings into keeping that place running for so long and did not realize they would just kick me aside when it was a good business decision... but that's what it is, a business decision. No more. No less. They paid for two houses, 20 acres of land, two kids through 12 years of Catholic schools, and quite a bit of college for both. Numerous cars, vacations... and a tractor, too! :laughing:

So, my advice to you would be... if you still enjoy it, keep doing it. But recognize that no matter how much sense you try to talk them into, they aren't going to change, and, in fact, it will probably get worse. If its eating at you, its time to move along.

I'm sure you know many people from your working past... doctors, health care professionals, vendors, landscaping, delivery, facilities maintenance .... you know you know those folks.

Update your resume. Put out some feelers. You'll be surprised how fast someone will want to snatch you up. And you'll be happier for it.

 

[tcreeley]

In doing a good job, you are becoming a "high maintenance" employee (as someone said), because you are outside the system, outside the policy procedure manual. Your old fellow employees are supportive, but you are the square peg in the round hole to the new admin. At some point something has to give- either they re-configure your job to make it work, or they work you out and are glad to see you go.
You are playing a game of power politics - paying the salaries, catching the perpetrator, showing up when needed on call.
Either you win it by playing it to win and embarrassing them in front of their bosses - or you lose.
It is a new generation in charge. Corporate policy has replaced personal responsibility.
Good luck.
- My advice, let it go- move on or follow HR's advice and stop going in outside your regularly scheduled hours.
If there is a crisis- it is live and learn for them.

 

[2458n]

This thread will bring back memories for many people. Me included. Small town small company started by local man. Got bigger got bought out by bigger corp. Continued to grow buying out others in same business. Shut down other factories and moved production to original small town. Needed more room so the original owner spent 5 million on new building. Corp leased building. Two years later had grown so big that company moved 45 minutes away and bought a former picture tube factory. Still small town with big factory and no business or employees. You have developed skills and need to put yourself back on the market. It all comes down to numbers.

 

[300UGUY]

Good luck. You are playing a game you cant win. You have skills, market them outside. Your ride here is probably ending.

 

[ultrarunner]

You are being taken advantage of. Fill out a resume, apply for a few other jobs, and you may be surprised just how marketable you are.

I was at my last employer for 30 years. My job description when hired was to "learn all aspect of production." and I did. I could maintain, repair and operate ALL production equipment (machinery) AND all computer systems. I could do ANY job function. I also had to manage each of the 5 production departments for a week, after training with the department managers for a month. That gave me a very good view of how each person and asset fit into the big picture and how one person or asset not working could affect the entire process. During that time, I also spent two years working with an electrician in the plant doing repairs, retrofit and installation. Eventually, I got sucked up by I.T. and was involved with the installation, operation, maintenance, and training of users on ALL computer systems. Anyhow, I ended up with 25 years in I.T., doing all aspects... networking, hardware, software, servers, workstations, training PLUS helping with repairs on the production machinery. I was the only person in the entire company that knew what everyone else was doing and how they were doing it. They sent me to schools for weeks at a time. Brought in vendors for in-house schooling. They spent huge dollars on my education.

Then, out of the blue, aobut 5-6 years ago, corporate took over all I.T. operations... we went from 10 people in I.T. to 3 people. They took everything away from us, we had to train them, and then we were slowly let go. They took away my computers and they eliminated many managers and a couple departments. So 3 years ago, sensing my eminent termination (and having it confirmed by a friend with "old family blood), about 2 days before the evil I.T. people at corp could terminate me, I moved over to the night maintenance department. I've been working 7pm to 3am for the last 3 years. Good gig. No supervisors, just workers. Only person in my department at those hours. :thumbsup:

Then, back in May of this year, pretty unexpectedly, they outsourced all production. ALL production staff was told we would be let go in 6 weeks, and we'd have to stay to the end if we wanted our severance... 65 people gone.... most of my friends.

30 years.....

What the he$$ am I going to do now? Lots of angry people in the building. Lots of tears. Some broken equipment.

Well, I was ticked for about 2 hours after they told us. Then, I thought to myself, "MOVE ALONG!"

I got on the phone, made 1 call to a colleague in another line of work, and asked if he knew if they were hiring anyone in any positions? I had a job interview secured within 2 hours of being notified, attended the interview 4 days later, got offered the job that afternoon and started the day after my last day at my old job. I now know what I'll be doing for the next 10 years.

Officially, I'm retired from my old job. I got a meager severance package, but, in reality, I was paid for 30 years. I have a pension that was frozen with 19 years of service that I'll draw at 62. I have a 401K that they and I contributed to for the past 28 years. And all of the sick time I never used got converted to "health credits", that will pay for my health insurance for 2.5 years. They owe me nothing and I owe them nothing.

It's sad that I put so much of my personal feelings into keeping that place running for so long and did not realize they would just kick me aside when it was a good business decision... but that's what it is, a business decision. No more. No less. They paid for two houses, 20 acres of land, two kids through 12 years of Catholic schools, and quite a bit of college for both. Numerous cars, vacations... and a tractor, too! :laughing:

So, my advice to you would be... if you still enjoy it, keep doing it. But recognize that no matter how much sense you try to talk them into, they aren't going to change, and, in fact, it will probably get worse. If its eating at you, its time to move along.

I'm sure you know many people from your working past... doctors, health care professionals, vendors, landscaping, delivery, facilities maintenance .... you know you know those folks.

Update your resume. Put out some feelers. You'll be surprised how fast someone will want to snatch you up. And you'll be happier for it.

Did not know you switched companies... your a very smart guy with a great temperament... I would wager to say similar to my friend with 30 Telco years in... her took the buy out at 52 and then did contract consulting for 2 after... nice package offered for the buy out...

Nice that you got credit for the unused sick time... I did the math and the dollar value of my sick leave equals almost 7 years of 403B match..

Had dinner at my brothers... he said he is looking for a ranch foreman... I always help when I can and especially during Christmas Tree season but ranch work can be very physical... he is a key VP at the firm he works for... and decided time was more lucratively spent getting a W2 right now...

Could be wrong but one day I will probably have to cut back to help Mom... so this is always in the back of my mind.

 

[ultrarunner]

In doing a good job, you are becoming a "high maintenance" employee (as someone said), because you are outside the system, outside the policy procedure manual. Your old fellow employees are supportive, but you are the square peg in the round hole to the new admin. At some point something has to give- either they re-configure your job to make it work, or they work you out and are glad to see you go.
You are playing a game of power politics - paying the salaries, catching the perpetrator, showing up when needed on call.
Either you win it by playing it to win and embarrassing them in front of their bosses - or you lose.
It is a new generation in charge. Corporate policy has replaced personal responsibility.
Good luck.
- My advice, let it go- move on or follow HR's advice and stop going in outside your regularly scheduled hours.
If there is a crisis- it is live and learn for them.

You're right... just would be nice for outside HR to be in sync with in house management... part of my problem is I do read everything... my boss said I do not get a 2 hour minimum for coming in when called... I showed the HR manual and it is in black and white hourly employees receive a minimum of 2 hour pay if called back...

For about 15 years the housekeepers were direct report to me... so we have a long established relationship and they get paid very little for part time work... so when they came to me saying they had not been paid in 7 weeks it was not something "I" could ignore... even though I have absolutely nothing to do with House Keeping post merger.

I promised to look into it and they said today was their collective last day... I then said me a week and if the back pay doesn't show up by next Monday I would make it good... not expecting it would be necessary... they agreed to keep working and when the money didn't show up I kept my word... but made it clear it was a one time thing... the alternative would have been ugly on so many fronts but I could shrugged my shoulders and been safe.

Personally it is hard when every week I get calls from supplier and vendors asking for payments... it is not that the company doesn't have the money... and these are all entities where I was their contact with some for 20+ years...

Never looked at it in terms of a power play... only trying to keep our good standing in the community and industry...

 

[Sigarms]

Post Script... HR says I am under no obligation to respond outside my shift and only those receiving On-Call pay are required to be available... and my position does not qualify... however I am the only local contact for Police, Fire, Security, etc...

That was my first thought unless something was written into your job description.

I hate to say this, but thank you. It's been 20 plus years since I was hourly, and I don't miss it one bit. Worked on union shop after college at will never look at a union again.

 

[two_bit_score]

At On-Boarding... HR said OT is built into the budget for my position but also said there is no On-Call provision so no obligation to respond... I can live with that.

What I was not expecting is OT now being a problem and the emphasis on Perfect Time Cards is number one priority... nothing takes the wind out of your sales hearing two weeks later you did a great job but we can't have a repeat...

Wow Ultra, hope you can get this resolved so the adjustment, whichever way you decide to play it, goes smoothly for you.

I’ve been through a couple company/firm buyouts/ mergers and there were always some things I liked and some I didn’t. I had to adjust. If I didn’t it was just going to be more difficult for me. Nothing lasts forever. That’s what I always kept in mind.

The plast place had a very disingenuous way of going about things. They said I was to take “ownership” but never allowed me to simply be responsible for the final result. In cases where the outcome was great they could still always find something that wasn’t by their protocol to cut you’re bonus, or critize, etc.

I played by their rules eventually and finally moved on to a much better arrangement.

 

[ultrarunner]

Take "Ownership" is a concept repeatedly ingrained before the sale... the CEO said publicly several times back in the day that she never wanted to hear "Not my Job" referencing Doctors and Patients that may need assistance... to picking up trash in the parking lot because it was "Our" Hospital.

The disparity for me post sale is the conflict between how we function as my boss sees it and how corp sees it... with after hour Call Back being an example.

On site management is happy with what I do but following HR rules I must be paid a 2 hour minimum for Call Back plus OT (If applicable) but when it shows up on my time card it is flagged from Corp putting pressure on my Boss... if that makes sense?

The complication is that my Boss is not initiating the Call Back but it is either the Alarm Company, Police/Fire or Internal Alarm... such as the Tissue Bank Cryogenic Freezer Alarm... you don't want to lose tens of thousands of dollars of Human Tissue because some forgot to secure a freezer!

My Admin is not a person to go around Corporate and Corporate has set me up as Hourly so OT and Call Back must be paid when due which creates a problem from Corporate for her as to why am I getting Called Back?

I'm going to suggest I reduce my shift by 30 minutes each day making it 7.5 work plus the mandatory Meal Break of 30 minutes... this way when I get Called Back there will be 5 hours each pay period to play with and at the end of the pay period "Back Fill" with Vacation hours any shortfall to make 80 hours...

Seems logical unless I'm overlooking something?

 

[airbiscuit]

I'm going to suggest I reduce my shift by 30 minutes each day making it 7.5 work plus the mandatory Meal Break of 30 minutes... this way when I get Called Back there will be 5 hours each pay period to play with and at the end of the pay period "Back Fill" with Vacation hours any shortfall to make 80 hours...

Seems logical unless I'm overlooking something?

It sounds like you have another option as to how to balance your hours that keeps you below the overtime threshold, and you get to leave work early one day! ...

Anyway... going forward... anytime I work outside my 5 am to 1:30 pm daily shift will have to be taken away from my next scheduled shift... so if I have 5 hours of Sunday Call In... my regular 8 hour Monday shift will be reduced by 5 hours to 3 hours... making it 5 am to 8 am...