Promotions into Management?

[paulsharvey]

I know this is a tractor forum, but its got a Wide group of folks, who really do know a lot. So, me and my wife, are in totally different businesses, but both are pretty much at the top of the "worker" chain, hourly employees. Her bosses boss has been hounding her for several months to accept her empty managers position. She is kinda floor lead, but not a manager. I have been felt out several times through the last 5 years as well in my organization. I have been salary in the past (pre 2008 world ending collapse), and hourly since then. I do currently have 1 guy I "supervise" now, out of the 3 I was given a few years ago (without any more money/promotion). I (and wife is similar) like what we currently do, but more and more, both of us are asking, "do i want to do this for 5 more years or 10, but definitely not 15-20".

So, for long time hourly workers, that moved to mid level management/office stuff, did you hate it? I am very used to being a field guy, that schedules his own work, chooses what I work on most of the time, ect. I also Frequently see managers that tell me, "I was happier 1 step lower, and this isn't worth the small raise"

For about 5 years I have said "I've been a free ranged chicken for far to long to be couped up", but at some point, I might change my mind.

As a background, we both have about 30 years more to work, I'm 42, and she's 39.

 

[workinonit]

I've been all of the above. I don't handle bureaucratic BS very well. All I can tell you is it really depends on how much the pay increase is. That matters for everything down the road. If it's substantial then it's likely worth the headache.

 

[kenmbz]

I one job I stayed hourly as it had overtime, but in every job after that I managed people and projects.
What is the biggest worry you have?
Is it politics? Having to deal with the many faces of employees that work for you?
Do you have a mentor locally that can walk you through what their life is like as a manager?

I once had over 70 people reporting in to me, many weekly job workers. Interesting to deal with a wide range of people from low to ones that were smarter than I.

I ran a high end engineering team of 17 in multiple sites and countries (which has it's one issues)

I will say you need to set up some regular face to face with both your reports and management.
Not doing so can let things get out of hand for too long.

You will also need to determine how much "touch" reports need. Some need to be micromanaged, some will manage their own time quite well.

Setting defined goals and timelines helps a lot, and you'll need to dive in when an employee is in trouble to determine how to get them out, or not.

I like to make sure everyone I work with, even if not a direct report, feels like part of the team and have the team govern itself a bit.

And you will have to learn to listen and keep calm (well relatively).

Politics, well that is a whole nother animal and depends on how much upper mgmt feeds it or squashes it.

 

[Sprinkler Fitter]

30 more years to work and you are 42?

 

[paulsharvey]

30 more years to work and you are 42?

Yep. Shoot might get lucky and be able to retire at 67 or so, but to be honest I think retirement is a thing of the past realistically. Also just bought a house, that's gonna take 30 years to pay off.

 

[paulsharvey]

It's not entirely an hourly vs salary issue, for me, although for wife to some degree it is. Her worry is, you might end up working 60 hours per week, vs her normal 32, and in hourly, she can always get an extra shift, and likely 48 hrs hourly is more than 40 salary.

Me, it's a lot about freedom. I hate the Feeling of being chained to a desk 8-10 hrs per day. I did a similar job, as an emergency fill in, 11 months one time, and 9 months another (but that was during covid). For people who are used to it, it's gonna sound funny, but even stuff like people deciding when you eat lunch... I'm used to, I want to eat at 10:30, I eat lunch, if i want to skip lunch, I skip lunch.

In both our cases, I'm guessing about 10% pay increase, But higher long-term pay. You get to a point where you are "maxed out" in a position. Neither of us are quite there, but very close.

 

[m7040]

Getting a management position can also be rewarding especially if you are good at motivating people and improving results for the company and making it fun for the employees. Setting goals and expectations for the team can get you some recognition from upper management and salary increases and if you can make it a win for the employees as well you are in a good spot.
I moved up in the ranks in engineering from one end of the spectrum to the other.
Managed large craft and engineering teams as well as smaller projects
Most fun was a smaller lump sum project that I did as a very young engineer and essentially did it as a skunk project without much oversight. Making money on it helped put me on the map in the company
Never felt chained to a desk

 

[RjCorazza]

I made a conscious choice to remain in the equivalent of middle management for the last 15 years of my career. I was still in the field, the majority of the time supervising a crew of 4, occasionally 16. For me it was the right decision, as I was happy where I was at, and what I was doing.
I retired healthy and happy.

 

[ericm979]

I was pushed into management a couple times. I hated it. I had a hard time being responsible for people's careers. I've always been an independent employee who tells my manager what I need to be doing, and I had difficultly realizing that not everyone is that self-directed.

I ended up in quasi-management roles where I was telling the engineering team what to do technically but they reported to someone else. So I got the relatively fun part without the headache part.

One drawback of being management is that you are expected to go along with upper management's decisions. A lot of times, once I was in the meetings where things were decided, they made more sense to me. In those cases I had no problem telling line folks why management was doing this apparently (to them) dumb thing and why it wasn't actually that dumb. But sometimes it really was dumb. I may have been in the meeting where it was decided (and argued against it), or it may have been decided at a higher level. But management still expects you to follow the party line. Sometimes I did, sometimes I didn't, and sometimes I kept my mouth shut.

One thing to watch out for when going from hourly to exempt is them piling on what would have been OT. Some companies create "management" positions that really should be hourly but only exist to make people exempt. Sounds like you're aware of that problem.

 

[ning]

For your wife - if she's a floor nurse, that's often union, and management almost never is. That should figure into her decision some.

I personally shut down talk of management early and often because I've almost always been remote, and it's a rare company in my field where management can be remote. Also, I can't stand the thought of having my time spent doing .... managing. With what I do, I can "slack" and get enough done in my own amount of time that I can live my life too; management tends to be on other peoples' schedules and can't be nearly as "flexible" as I am.

 

[Oaktree]

Getting a management position can also be rewarding especially if you are good at motivating people and improving results for the company and making it fun for the employees. Setting goals and expectations for the team can get you some recognition from upper management and salary increases and if you can make it a win for the employees as well you are in a good spot.

Good points.
A lot of questions here only the OP can answer (and even then might require considerable soul-searching). Not knowing what fields he or his wife are in makes it hard to give much in the way of advice. Would you still be somewhat involved in the work you do, or would this be strictly supervisory? Would you miss your old work? Are you good with people...able to motivate, lead, discipline when needed?
There's no one size fits all here. Some are able to step into a management role and do well, others are a fish out of water.

 

[garry1p]

The thing about being in management is the possibility to move up, over the years you may qualify for annual bonus even stock options.
However; working hourly is always going to be hourly.

The problem about low and middle management is when the cutting starts that's usually where it start's.
Another problem can be the hours you may have to put in without extra compensation.

My definition of management is "Getting things done through others", if you are good at that, your chances of moving up improve.

I never had to deal directly with unions, but my domestic customers had unions and that is a whole new ball game, I'm not sure how I would have manage in that situation.

I barely managed to graduate high school somehow I always ended up being promoted even when I really didn't want to move up. Before retiring I ended up Director of international service operations, lots of travel a generous salary and all the perks, looking back I have no regrets.

One word of caution, If you do take the management position as you move up there will always be some butt hole who thinks they want your job, or is afraid you will be promoted into a job they deserve. These type of people tend to lie, cheat and do whatever they can to undermine you. Check out the "Peter Principle" these people are not your friends.

 

[paulsharvey]

For your wife - if she's a floor nurse, that's often union, and management almost never is. That should figure into her decision some.

I personally shut down talk of management early and often because I've almost always been remote, and it's a rare company in my field where management can be remote. Also, I can't stand the thought of having my time spent doing .... managing. With what I do, I can "slack" and get enough done in my own amount of time that I can live my life too; management tends to be on other peoples' schedules and can't be nearly as "flexible" as I am.

Never heard of Union nurses? She's what's called here, a CNC, Clinical Nursing Coordinator, fancy word for a charge nurse, but she nearly always has her own patients, as well as keeping track of/assisting other nurses. The next step up is Far less patient care (but you still have to when folks don't show up), far more scheduling, meetings, ect. She doesn't mind the training new people side of it, and I think she actually enjoys having a window into the big wigs decision (although generally without a say).

In my role, being technically a supervisor over 1 guy, really just approve his time sheet, do his reviews, ect, I get the management emails. That is sometimes annoying, but you see another side too. All of the sudden you see how raises are calculated, based on "comp ration", stuff that most people don't actually see.

As for feeling chained down; My company is kinda service provider (engineering), and kinda leases it's employees to government offices... (we are either prostitutes or mercenaries?) but the office I've been sold too for 8 years, does happen occasionally have inmates... Anyways first day being in the office for 10 hours, no joke, I'm looking out the window, and noticed, that barb-wire points both directions... IE, it's kinda feels like a prison; but yes that barb wire on top of the fence Does have 3 rows to keep people out, and 3 rows inside to keep people in....

 

[paulsharvey]

Good points.
A lot of questions here only the OP can answer (and even then might require considerable soul-searching). Not knowing what fields he or his wife are in makes it hard to give much in the way of advice. Would you still be somewhat involved in the work you do, or would this be strictly supervisory? Would you miss your old work? Are you good with people...able to motivate, lead, discipline when needed?
There's no one size fits all here. Some are able to step into a management role and do well, others are a fish out of water.

People are always one of the problems, but in my case it's more the office side, than people side. So, a field guy kinda can always do something; never a shortage of work, more of a decision what work you do today; on the office, you are largely waiting on work to come to you, and then dealing with it.

On people, most of the time I dont mind some responsible, but it can be annoying with the "stuck in their ways, old farts".

 

[ultrarunner]

Held all those at the same desk and each has plus and minus.

Hourly with OT you are actually paid for your time.

Management has greater flexibility which I liked a lot even if I was putting in more time.

Two years ago corp eliminated all the engineers at the non union locations and reclassified them as facility techs and it never set right with me…

No one got a pay cut but we all became pigeonholed as to raises, etc. my boss has provided bonuses to make up but doing the math losing out cost of living increases and position raises is a big negative.

Union RNs are about 50% of RNs in out 80,000 employee organization…

When the union RN strike the settlement trickles down to the non union nurses so they don’t leave…

 

[Tinhack]

Her worry is, you might end up working 60 hours per week, vs her normal 32, and in hourly, she can always get an extra shift, and likely 48 hrs hourly is more than 40 salary.

That's exactly what will happen. I was on salary most of my adult life. From a computer programmer to a department manager with a multimillion-dollar budget and later a consultant. I remember putting in a few 24–36-hour days at the Cleveland Clinic. Before that at a well-known accounting firm and then a bank. It was always the same. You work until the task is finished or the problem is fixed. You go in early to make sure your day is planned and stay late to handle personnel or job situations. There's no clock when you're on salary. If she accepts the position, make sure the salary fits the work. A 60-hour a week pay equivalent is not unreasonable. But expect to ignore the clock when you have a job to do.

 

[drssg]

IMO, there are enough variables involved to make it impossible to know whether it's a good fit for you, until you try it. On a positive note, if it doesn't work out, you aren't locked into that career path for the next 30 years. There are more worker positions than management.

Personally, it didn't work for me. As a worker, I could accept any nonsense from management and just do my job for a paycheck. If I'm expected to pass that nonsense down to people that report to me, and pretend that it's not nonsense, I just couldn't do it.

My wife made it one step up the ladder, and being in the management pay scale made a big difference. The initial raise was not that much, but the long-term salary range and annual bonuses were in a different category.

Different strokes for different folks!

 

[shooterdon]

If you have to ask, you may be better staying hourly.

If you want to "move up", at your age, I would be looking at how does this move set me up to advance another two or three levels. If you spend 30 years at the first level of many salaried positions, you will never make "real money" or get much job satisfaction. It is not for everyone.

If your goal is another 2-3 levels higher, do you have the educational requirements? If not, are you prepared to get them?

Working extra hours as a salaried employee is easy to justify if it helps you make the next step. If you have to do it to keep your job, you will be disgruntled. The increase in pay is rarely sufficient.

 

[paulsharvey]

If you have to ask, you may be better staying hourly.

If you want to "move up", at your age, I would be looking at how does this move set me up to advance another two or three levels. If you spend 30 years at the first level of many salaried positions, you will never make "real money" or get much job satisfaction. It is not for everyone.

If your goal is another 2-3 levels higher, do you have the educational requirements? If not, are you prepared to get them?

Working extra hours as a salaried employee is easy to justify if it helps you make the next step. If you have to do it to keep your job, you will be disgruntled. The increase in pay is rarely sufficient.

My business, education doesn't matter much, unless you are a PE. I actually did start taking classes towards that goal about 10 years ago, but decided I didn't want it enough to devote 2 hours per day after work, every day, for the pre reqs.

I do think if wife takes that job, they will want her to get a bachelor's within a period of time.

 

[shooterdon]

My business, education doesn't matter much, unless you are a PE. I actually did start taking classes towards that goal about 10 years ago, but decided I didn't want it enough to devote 2 hours per day after work, every day, for the pre reqs.

I do think if wife takes that job, they will want her to get a bachelor's within a period of time.

Think it through with your wife and be brutally honest with each other. If one of you wants to try management, and it takes more schooling, the other partner will need to do more around the house.

My fiancé got her Bachelors and Masters degrees while working and it ended up destroying her marriage. He was a lazy fellow who could not hold a job and resented her success. Instead of being supportive he did less and demanded more. Jealousy is a poison.

Good luck.