Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[TerryCC]

Question for Island Tractor. As you have a bunch of years and hours on your Caroni. With the exception of replacing the belts, knives and shackles, have you had any other repairs on your mower?

 

[IslandTractor]

Question for Island Tractor. As you have a bunch of years and hours on your Caroni. With the exception of replacing the belts, knives and shackles, have you had any other repairs on your mower?

Nope. I just grease it before mowing and check for missing blades after mowing. Once or twice a season I take the belt cover off to have a look and check the gearbox oil.

 

[Fallon]

My ford 907 is not as heavy built as your 917. I think it's a older mower also. It's heavy enough for what I do with it but not as hefty. The 907 and 917 can use some of the same knives and mine had the wing looking blades until I changed them to scoop. The scoop knives were a bit longer so I also had to replace the hanger.../D ring or V/ring with a shorter one. I'd been better off the just replace with the original wing. The side slicers for these mowers are pretty heavy built but to me it's just not enough of them compared to my Mott. Mott has 4 rows of stations with 24 in each = 96 stations = 192 knives. Ford has 3 rows of stations with 11 in each = 33 stations = 66 knives. Both are 72" cut.

I was looking for a 917 when I ran across this 907 and settled for it since the pickens are slim for flail mowers around here except for the crop choppers used by farmers.

My 917 uses 2 belts.

Here in in the Denver area there have been about 11 flails listed on Craigslist in the past 2 years. 5 crop, 2 ditch ones on a boom. So not many used options at all.

I got mine for $100 before I even knew really what it was. The hood was bent bad & I had to torch out a large chunk to avoided knife hits. Knife brackets on the rotor are bent bad. Still was better than my new rotary cutter & enough to hook me on flails.

I keep abusing mine because it takes it & keeps on kicking. Side slicers do ok on light brush. They also do surprisingly well on softball sized rocks (one client has lots of rock & conctruction rubble in their field). Broke a shackle & couple knives finally on a football sized chunk of asphalt that was hiding.

 

[RoyJackson]

Finally got my Caroni flail mower hooked up to the tractor!

I had to take about 3" off the PTO Driveshaft...still plenty of overlap. Downside, I broke one of the PTO drive shaft shield clamps (similar to a snap ring) when removing it. It shouldn't be too expensive to replace...just a standard Eurocardan part.
The Caroni is a robust flail mower...I suspect a rather old design, however. The 3PH frame was not designed with a Quick Hitch in mind. I did manage to make it work, but if I lower the rock-shaft lever completely, the QH frame hits the PTO driveshaft. Like most rock-shafts, the Deere has a stop to prevent lowering the draft arms completely. I think I'll have to tweak this here and there to get optimal use. If all else fails, I'll hook up directly to the draft arms, but that will require more shortening of the drive shaft.
Adjustment of the cutting height (lowering the roller) is a bit of a pain for one person. Bolts have to be removed at both the roller and the skid shoes. That prevents use of jack stands (or I haven't figured out an alternative location to position them yet). This is also a two person job, but one (me) can handle it if necessary.

As far as mowing...well, it definitely does the job! Very nice cut, especially considering the height (1' to 3 or 4 feet) of the field grasses. I didn't have enough fuel in the tractor to make more then two passes...and, no pics this time.

All and all, I'm satisfied with the purchase.

 

[leonz]

Hello Roy,

I want to welcome you as the newest resident member of the "Flail Mower Nations".

As far adjusting the skids and the rear roller you can always leave it attached to the top link and the lower links and use a sandwich of 2 by 12's from the front of the mower to the rear edge of the shroud to raise it above the ground making 3 stacks of 2 by 12's or other lumber essentially a pad for it to rest on.
It will shuffle around a little until the knife sets and shackles roll forward or back to allow the mower to rest on the dimensional wood sandwich.


OR you can always roll it over and flip it just be sure to drain the gearbox box before you do that to save the oil.

The first method is less messy and once you have the entire weight on the 2 by 12 sandwich while its still attached to the draft links you will have no problems adjusting the toy, er mowing implement, er flail mower, er forever mower in your stable.

Better to just glue and screw the wood together unless you have thick hardwood blocking to use otherwise

Happy Mowing

 

[IslandTractor]

Roy, I don't recall how I blocked the mower up when I adjusted skids and rear roller. Good news is that you really only need to do it once or at most twice until you find the right settings for your needs. I haven't touched either in eight or nine years.

Another setting for you to consider is the offset. The mower has about a 12-15" offset to the right with the 3PT hitch in the normal position. Moving just a half dozen or so bolts on the hitch allows you to move it further outboard which might be useful for mowing around trees or fences. Downside is that the tractor width increases by a foot or so which makes getting into a garage or barn tricky with mower attached. I leave mine in the normal position but push the 3PT arms all the way right. I find the 15-18" offset I get to be plenty for mowing near fences.

 

[RoyJackson]

Roy, I don't recall how I blocked the mower up when I adjusted skids and rear roller. Good news is that you really only need to do it once or at most twice until you find the right settings for your needs. I haven't touched either in eight or nine years.

Another setting for you to consider is the offset. The mower has about a 12-15" offset to the right with the 3PT hitch in the normal position. Moving just a half dozen or so bolts on the hitch allows you to move it further outboard which might be useful for mowing around trees or fences. Downside is that the tractor width increases by a foot or so which makes getting into a garage or barn tricky with mower attached. I leave mine in the normal position but push the 3PT arms all the way right. I find the 15-18" offset I get to be plenty for mowing near fences.

Thanks for the posts (both Leon and IT)

The Caroni manual isn't the most comprehensive I've read, so it pays to see how things are put together under the mower. Right now, I have the mower set one hole from the bottom (referring to the roller height). I'll see how that works for the first mowing. Might raise it up one hole, depending of the results...although the two passes I did make yesterday seem to be about right.

I set the 3PH frame for maximum offset since I do have trees and such to mow under. The normal mowing would require an offset to the left, rather then the right. Just a matter of changing my habitual way of mowing.

It's raining now..and looks like much of the week will be rain...probably no pictures until next weekend.

 

[Iberian]

First off this is the most impressive collection of flail mower advice written anywhere. Like most people in the US when I decided that mowing with my ride on mower was taking too long I started looking into getting a rotary cut mower. Now I am not so sure.

I have a Kubota L2501 and have 5 acres that are sloped, with trees, mostly grass/weeds, not overgrown, contain rocks of which some are loose and some are part of outcroppings that go down farther than I have been bothered to dig. Previously I was mowing this with a Snapper ride on which has great maneuverability and slow enough to allow me to dodge most rocks. Nice cut, slow as molasses, easy to steer. I won't cut the nice grass near the house with the tractor it is too small with how it is broken up and laid out to be worth not using the Snapper. I know a RC mower will easily roll over rocks and cut anything I throw at it while being near maintenance free. Concerned though that as oddly shaped as my land is and with the hills that don't always allow side slope mowing that it will not be able to efficiently mow as well as a flail.

Now I suspect a flail will be a lot easier to use as it is much smaller. What I don't know is how well it handles hitting rocks, especially those that are buried 20ft deep and don't move when they get hit, or how it will handle undulating terrain this isn't nice and flat. I do have top 'n tilt but not sure how much that will help.

What I think my options are-

LandPride FM21: FM21 Series Flail Mowers | Land Pride

LandPride RCR1860: RCR18 Series Rotary Cutters | Land Pride

Caroni 59in: Flail Mower, Flail Mowers, Caroni Flail Mower

Appreciate any advice.

Thanks!

*Not my video but this is about what type of land I have if you imagine the terrain in the video at 1:30-2:00 with the under growth cleared and smaller trees removed.

Mountain Biking Auburn California - Trail Guide - YouTube

 

[Steave]

First off this is the most impressive collection of flail mower advice written anywhere. Like most people in the US when I decided that mowing with my ride on mower was taking too long I started looking into getting a rotary cut mower. Now I am not so sure.

I have a Kubota L2501 and have 5 acres that are sloped, with trees, mostly grass/weeds, not overgrown, contain rocks of which some are loose and some are part of outcroppings that go down farther than I have been bothered to dig. Previously I was mowing this with a Snapper ride on which has great maneuverability and slow enough to allow me to dodge most rocks. Nice cut, slow as molasses, easy to steer. I won't cut the nice grass near the house with the tractor it is too small with how it is broken up and laid out to be worth not using the Snapper. I know a RC mower will easily roll over rocks and cut anything I throw at it while being near maintenance free. Concerned though that as oddly shaped as my land is and with the hills that don't always allow side slope mowing that it will not be able to efficiently mow as well as a flail.

Now I suspect a flail will be a lot easier to use as it is much smaller. What I don't know is how well it handles hitting rocks, especially those that are buried 20ft deep and don't move when they get hit, or how it will handle undulating terrain this isn't nice and flat. I do have top 'n tilt but not sure how much that will help.

What I think my options are-

LandPride FM21: FM21 Series Flail Mowers | Land Pride

LandPride RCR1860: RCR18 Series Rotary Cutters | Land Pride

Caroni 59in: Flail Mower, Flail Mowers, Caroni Flail Mower

Appreciate any advice.

Thanks!

*Not my video but this is about what type of land I have if you imagine the terrain in the video at 1:30-2:00 with the under growth cleared and smaller trees removed.

Mountain Biking Auburn California - Trail Guide - YouTube

I enjoyed the video but if its really that rough you might think of getting some goats or sheep. I was expecting to see "Angry Ram" around one of the turns.

 

[whirly]

You only have 5 acres and some of it is around the house ... take some pics, post 'em and lets see what kind of ground you really have. It will help us to help you:welcome: to the Flail Nation

 

[troverman]

...I have a Kubota L2501 and have 5 acres that are sloped, with trees, mostly grass/weeds, not overgrown, contain rocks of which some are loose and some are part of outcroppings that go down farther than I have been bothered to dig....What I think my options are-

LandPride FM21: FM21 Series Flail Mowers | Land Pride

LandPride RCR1860: RCR18 Series Rotary Cutters | Land Pride

Caroni 59in: Flail Mower, Flail Mowers, Caroni Flail Mower

Appreciate any advice.

Here's some advice: your tractor has 19 or 20.5 PTO horsepower depending upon if it is hydrostatic or gear transmission, respectively. It looks like you're considering a 60" flail mower. If you are going to encounter very tall grass, that tractor is going to be overwhelmed. Twice every year, I mow a landfill cap with nothing but field grass on it...using a 48" Vrisimo flail mower operated behind a 29HP Kubota with 21 PTO horsepower. Its about a 30 acre job on a 1/3 slope. It has always gotten the job done. This year we had heavy spring rains and then warmth. The grass was thick and approaching 3-4 feet in some areas. My tractor was overwhelmed despite only turning a 48" flail. I ended up putting this small flail mower behind my 45HP Kubota and even with that machine there were some areas I had to go pretty slow.

So, just be careful before laying out a lot of money. There's no doubt your 2501 can easily lift and pull a 60" flail, and I think it will mow just fine in shorter grasses. But if you are doing a slot of slope mowing like me, be aware some of that horsepower will be "stolen" just to move the tractor up the hill, and if you're in tall grass, it will struggle pretty hard.

 

[Fallon]

First off this is the most impressive collection of flail mower advice written anywhere. Like most people in the US when I decided that mowing with my ride on mower was taking too long I started looking into getting a rotary cut mower. Now I am not so sure.

I have a Kubota L2501 and have 5 acres that are sloped, with trees, mostly grass/weeds, not overgrown, contain rocks of which some are loose and some are part of outcroppings that go down farther than I have been bothered to dig. Previously I was mowing this with a Snapper ride on which has great maneuverability and slow enough to allow me to dodge most rocks. Nice cut, slow as molasses, easy to steer. I won't cut the nice grass near the house with the tractor it is too small with how it is broken up and laid out to be worth not using the Snapper. I know a RC mower will easily roll over rocks and cut anything I throw at it while being near maintenance free. Concerned though that as oddly shaped as my land is and with the hills that don't always allow side slope mowing that it will not be able to efficiently mow as well as a flail.

Now I suspect a flail will be a lot easier to use as it is much smaller. What I don't know is how well it handles hitting rocks, especially those that are buried 20ft deep and don't move when they get hit, or how it will handle undulating terrain this isn't nice and flat. I do have top 'n tilt but not sure how much that will help.

What I think my options are-

LandPride FM21: FM21 Series Flail Mowers | Land Pride

LandPride RCR1860: RCR18 Series Rotary Cutters | Land Pride

Caroni 59in: Flail Mower, Flail Mowers, Caroni Flail Mower

Appreciate any advice.

Thanks!

*Not my video but this is about what type of land I have if you imagine the terrain in the video at 1:30-2:00 with the under growth cleared and smaller trees removed.

Mountain Biking Auburn California - Trail Guide - YouTube

I got a new LP RCR1260 with my L3200. It mowed well & was nice gear. Then I got a $100 piece of junk Ford 917 7' flail. After I got it running ($400ish, new PTO shaft, new knives, torching out & patching bent hood getting hit by knives, etc.) the only time I used the rotary again was for some nasty yucca & when the rotor bearings blew. Much nicer cut on the flail, easier to manuver, safer, etc.

The nearly new rotary got sold with the L3200 when I upgraded to the cab on a L4060. Kept the beat to **** flail.

Your L2501 is identical to my old L3200, except for monkeying with some torque curves to get under 25hp for emissions reasons. The extra missing HP will hurt, but not to bad. You just have to go a hair slower. Trivial with a HST & easier on you & the machine in the long run.

I'd go as wide as you can. 5' minimum, maybe a 6' if it will be manuvervable enough for you.

I mow rocks with my flail all the time. A football sized one finally broke a couple clevises for the first time when it jamed. The rest of the time the knives just bounce & make a racket. The rocks barely move, unlike a rotary that can kill with a rock at 100'+. Mowing rocks definitely beats up the knives, but not that bad. I hear the Carconi clevises break easily, but there are better stronger replacement options noted on here.

I leave top in float when mowing with a rotary or flail. Helps with articulation a bit, but isn't required. The side link really is useless for mowing (handy for hitching though). A properly adjusted flail handles uneven ground better than a rotary as it's so much shorter.

 

[Ford850]

Sometimes the mower is the limiting factor more than the tractor. If your mower is the type that is more enclosed and unable to eject the cuttings quick enough, it might be overwhelmed no matter how much HP is running it. Some mowers provide a nicer finish cut but can't handle the tall tough stuff, while others can digest anything but don't leave as nice of a finish cut. Something to consider when researching flail models.

 

[Iberian]

You only have 5 acres and some of it is around the house ... take some pics, post 'em and lets see what kind of ground you really have. It will help us to help you:welcome: to the Flail Nation

This is what most of it looks like. Hard to see the hills in a photo.



This is my most open area as far as having no trees. Again the slope doesn't show well. I can side hill on this but farther down it gets tippy if I don't watch my turns especially if I have a load in the bucket.





In this part of California the grasses all die in summer and grow a ton in spring.

 

[houser52]

I didn't read through 400+ pages of this thread but here goes.

Flail mowers had never entered my mind before and the flail mower threads were just something that I passed over while looking at other things on TBN but...

The other day I noticed that my 30 year old Bush Hog TM5 finish mower is getting more and more rust through patches on it, same goes for my 5' Hardee brush hog which is also about 30 years old. I've patched both of them numerous times by welding on steel patches where they needed them just to get by another year. The problem is that I'm beginning to run out of places that the steel is thick enough to weld to.

That had got me to thinking about having to replace them and the cost associated with replacing both. Then I saw where a single flail mower might be able to take the place of both. The only thing that has me wondering is about the durability of the flail compared to a brush hog. I have very few rocks but have the usual small bushes and trees up to an inch or so in diameter that sprouts every year or so. Most mowing is pasture and along the edges of planted pine trees.

When it's time for me to do something do you think the Caroni flail mower would do what I need it to?

 

[IslandTractor]

Here's some advice: your tractor has 19 or 20.5 PTO horsepower depending upon if it is hydrostatic or gear transmission, respectively. It looks like you're considering a 60" flail mower. If you are going to encounter very tall grass, that tractor is going to be overwhelmed. Twice every year, I mow a landfill cap with nothing but field grass on it...using a 48" Vrisimo flail mower operated behind a 29HP Kubota with 21 PTO horsepower. Its about a 30 acre job on a 1/3 slope. It has always gotten the job done. This year we had heavy spring rains and then warmth. The grass was thick and approaching 3-4 feet in some areas. My tractor was overwhelmed despite only turning a 48" flail. I ended up putting this small flail mower behind my 45HP Kubota and even with that machine there were some areas I had to go pretty slow.

So, just be careful before laying out a lot of money. There's no doubt your 2501 can easily lift and pull a 60" flail, and I think it will mow just fine in shorter grasses. But if you are doing a slot of slope mowing like me, be aware some of that horsepower will be "stolen" just to move the tractor up the hill, and if you're in tall grass, it will struggle pretty hard.

I don't dispute that tall lush grass will require more HP but I've never found that to be a problem. Yes, sometimes in the Spring I have to throttle up or even cut less than full width on a pass but I'd never get a smaller flail because of that. I'd size the flail for average cutting as it is easy to slow down or take smaller cuts. Not so easy to figure out how to make an undersized flail more efficient with lighter mowing.

 

[Iberian]

I don't dispute that tall lush grass will require more HP but I've never found that to be a problem. Yes, sometimes in the Spring I have to throttle up or even cut less than full width on a pass but I'd never get a smaller flail because of that. I'd size the flail for average cutting as it is easy to slow down or take smaller cuts. Not so easy to figure out how to make an undersized flail more efficient with lighter mowing.

I used to do landscaping work in high school and we always bought mowers that were the fastest to use on 90% of what we cut. If we got into thick spring grass for a bit we just cut less per swath and made it for it the rest of the year with the faster mower tenfold.

 

[vvanders]

I don't dispute that tall lush grass will require more HP but I've never found that to be a problem. Yes, sometimes in the Spring I have to throttle up or even cut less than full width on a pass but I'd never get a smaller flail because of that. I'd size the flail for average cutting as it is easy to slow down or take smaller cuts. Not so easy to figure out how to make an undersized flail more efficient with lighter mowing.

I had the same dilemma when we bought our flail, we've got a ~19HP PTO Ford 1500. One thing the dealer brought up is that there's a "fixed" amount of HP that goes to just keeping the flails spinning so when you go with a 6' flail you may hit patches that will actually be slower to mow than if you have a 5'.

Another big factor is how close you plan to trim. We're just upkeeping the pasture here so we trim at 4". I can run through thick brush and blackberries up to the hood about as fast as my butt can handle it but if you're cutting low + thick grass that might be a different consideration. We went with the Caroni 54" so we'd have the versatility of cutting thick stuff but really up to what you want to do with it.

 

[Iberian]

Being in California my dealer was recommending a Vrisimo for about $4k. They look like a well built piece of equipment but they are 2x as much as a Caroni. I haven't seen the Caroni but am curious if a machine built in Italy and shipped to the US can be 1/2 the price and near the same quality. Obviously I would much rather spend 2k than 4k but not having the experience of using a Caroni vs a premium brand I am unsure of what my extra 2k is getting me.

 

[Steave]

Being in California my dealer was recommending a Vrisimo for about $4k. They look like a well built piece of equipment but they are 2x as much as a Caroni. I haven't seen the Caroni but am curious if a machine built in Italy and shipped to the US can be 1/2 the price and near the same quality. Obviously I would much rather spend 2k than 4k but not having the experience of using a Caroni vs a premium brand I am unsure of what my extra 2k is getting me.

I watched your video again. That's some breath taking ride down those trails. I see you're not taking my advice of getting some goats or sheep and still shopping for a mower. My Mott mower wouldn't have any trouble cutting anything on that video. but my old tractor couldn't carry it the top to get started. Laying all jokes aside I don't envy you having to make a choice on a new flail. 2k vs 4k would have to weigh a lot for me. Lots of folks here have the coroni and have good luck with them on the other hand I'm sure the Vrisimo owners are happy with theirs' also. I would suspect the higher dollar mowers would be for someone that does a lot of cutting say 10 or more acres a week. For someone like me cutting 5-8 acres every 2 weeks I couldn't justify the extra $$.