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woolyAcres
Platinum Member
Hoye's does have them but I think it's going to be a fall back position. If I can get it off I'll try my hand at welding it and hopefully save some money over replacing it.
New (to me) YM240D
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California
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Somewhere in this thread (?) I linked to a photo of the YM240 OEM divider block, after I installed a pressure gauge on it.
Here's an earlier photo. Without the gauge its easier to see. This block can be configured pass-through if no loader. By inserting a plug, fluid goes out one connection and returns into another, for a loader valve plumbed in series ahead of the 3-point.
Here's an earlier photo. Without the gauge its easier to see. This block can be configured pass-through if no loader. By inserting a plug, fluid goes out one connection and returns into another, for a loader valve plumbed in series ahead of the 3-point.
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woolyAcres
Platinum Member
You know it's interesting that you posted this because I've actually been tempted to remove the loader so I can work on it but I wasn't quite sure what to do about the hydraulics. I'm not sure I'll go this route right now, but it's nice to know there's a way to plug the hydraulic system while operating without the FEL. Thanks.
careyo63
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woolyAcres
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@careyo63-
Thanks for the link. The PTO shift lever in one of those photos looks just like mine. If the removal of mine gets ugly, I'll contact them to see if they'd be willing to sell just that piece.
Thanks.
California
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The YM186D I'm selling has a short hose from Out to In on its divider block, apparently to maintain the Series configuration after some hydraulic-powered accessory was removed. That might be simpler than buying the internal plug you need. Or maybe you make the block pass-through by removing a plug that's already inside it and capping the ports?
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woolyAcres
Platinum Member
I had a chance to rebuild the lift-arm cylinders today. The loader seems to lift okay but not great. There's still something clearly wrong with the curl function. Even when empty the loader took about 60 seconds to curl from tip-of-bucket pointing downward all the way to tip-of-bucket pointing upward. "Uncurling" was 5-7 seconds. The loader was able to lift the stones shown in the picture, but when I stood in the bucket along with these stones it would not lift. I had my landscape rake attached to the 3PT hitch for a bit of counter weight. My best guess is those stones weigh about 100lbs each so it seems able to lift 400lbs (plus weight of bucket) but not 150" more than that.
I'm quite certain there are problems with the loader control. As soon as I can sell the rear PTO pump that came with this tractor I'll use that to replace the loader control and hopefully the worst hoses. But it's no longer leaking fluid everywhere. It's usable as is until I can replace the control valve.
No luck getting that frozen PTO shift lever off. That bugger is really stuck on there. I used two fiber reinforced wheels trying to cut the frozen piece in half. It's in a difficult stop but hopefully I'll get that removed soon. I've got brush hogging I'd like to get to while the weather is still so nice.
I'm quite certain there are problems with the loader control. As soon as I can sell the rear PTO pump that came with this tractor I'll use that to replace the loader control and hopefully the worst hoses. But it's no longer leaking fluid everywhere. It's usable as is until I can replace the control valve.
No luck getting that frozen PTO shift lever off. That bugger is really stuck on there. I used two fiber reinforced wheels trying to cut the frozen piece in half. It's in a difficult stop but hopefully I'll get that removed soon. I've got brush hogging I'd like to get to while the weather is still so nice.
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Todd8665
Silver Member
Cant help with the PRO lever, but I have, since the beginning of your posts on this, been suspicious of your valve bank. 100% uneducated suspicious that is. If i had done this to my own tractor I'd be much braver recommending you to attempt it... My bucket does the opposite.. When dumping it can "hang" where nothing is happening at all, or it is going down very slowly. It has always recovered though. I truly believe my, and your problem, is some gunk stuck(or bad o-rings) in the valve bank, but having never tore one down before, and I am hesitant to do so unless it stops completely...all bets are off in that case.
Mine recovers after a few seconds so I haven't been forced to tear into it. I don't want to recommend to you to do this, as i lack the experience to do so, but it just seems that, all things being equal, you are lacking flow to your lift and curl cylinders and nowhere else?/. The bottleneck must therefore be your valve bank? My 2210 would life those rocks, you, me, and your pretty wife with little more than a grunt.
aczlan
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Before you do anything else, I would strongly recommend that you go buy a 5000PSI liquid filled gauge and the appropriate hydraulic fittings (NOT pipe fittings from Lowes) so you can tee it into the "pressure in" port of your loader valve. That will tell you if the problem is a weak pump that can't build enough pressure or the valves. It sounds a lot like a weak pump to me.
Aaron Z
My Tractor is 2000BD with loader... I don't know why my tractor is doing this, but it doing the same thing yours is... Here's what I have found that works... When I need to lift something real heavy. I have to raise my 3 point all the way up to the top...If the 3 point is down just a little I don't have near as much lifting power with my loader...If the 3 point is up I can lift 1,000+ lbs... Now the curl... If the 3 point is all the way up to the top... My loader will NOT curl down or up...It is super slow... Now if I let the 3 point down just a little say 1 or 2 inches the curl is fast... Give it a try on your tractor and see what the experts have to say about a the fix... I know nothing about the hydraulics... My loader is hooked up off the pump with the Hoye Tractor Parts... HA-38 HYDRAULIC ADAPTER - ADD A LOADER / LOG SPLITTER Link here>>>Yanmar Tractor Parts HYDRAULIC ADAPTER - ADD A LOADER / LOG SPLITTER
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woolyAcres
Platinum Member
I'm also very suspicious of the control valve and it's on my list to replace. Californina, winston, and clemsonfor, have suggested there could be gunk in there that broke free when I started messing with lines/cylinders. That could certainly be part of the problem. I found a prince joystick control with float that I really kinda fancy. As soon as I can sell that rear PTO pump I'll buy and replace that control valve.
The loader is actually functional (and improved from when I bought it). It'll now pick up 400lbs where before it wouldn't. It's not any good at scooping anything heavy (like a load of dirt from a pile for instance). But I've got lots of rocks around here that need to be moved so I'll just load them by hand into the bucket and use the tractor to move/dump them. With some patience it can work until I get it fixed.
I'm actually glad to hear it's not picking up all that it should. I'd prefer that the current state isn't it's full capacity. Gives me hope more can be done. Thanks.
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woolyAcres
Platinum Member
This is a great idea. I should have done this when California alluded to it a while back. Having those readings would answer a lot of questions. This is next on my list. I noticed that Hoye sells a seal kit for the pump. I'd be happy to do that. All the seals I've pulled out of the cylinders have been pretty bad. Several of the flat style, that ride along side the large O-rings, have actually been broken.
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woolyAcres
Platinum Member
This is very interesting. I'll have to try this today and get back to you. I'm curious if any other folks have this issue or why performance would be different depending on the position of the 3PT hitch. I've been warned about operation the loader and 3PT at the same time. I wonder if this behavior could be the result of having operated them simultaneously. I'll try this and get back to you.
aczlan
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Did the three point work between when you took off the PTO pump and when you reconnected the front crankshaft pump?
If so, that shouldn't make a difference as the 3point runs off of a separate pump inside the transmission.
Aaron Z
Can't give a real good explanation about the different loader performance with the 3 point in different postitions but can tell you it is caused from back pressure from the 3 point. That is the reason it is recommended to plumb loaders with power beyond. To eliminate back pressure.
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woolyAcres
Platinum Member
My 3PT seems to work fine. It leaks down slowly but it lifts my box-blade, the 5' rotary cutter. I think it's okay. But the best way to tell would be to add the pressure gauge.
The front crankshaft pump was only connected for a trial. The plumbing there is strange as it goes to/from the reservoir mounted to the loader but no where else- no control valves, nothing, just to the tank and back.
The loader on this tractor (as long as I've had it) has always been plumbed to the same system as the rear 3PT. The rear PTO was there for front-mounted remotes but not the loader. The front crankshaft pump only goes in a circle (which doesn't make much sense but there it is).
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woolyAcres
Platinum Member
So I tried what Djames55 suggested and found my setup behaves like his. With the loader arms fully extended (bucket at highest possible point) and the rear 3PT lever all the way forward (rear implement lowered as far as it can go so there's no weight on the 3PT) as in the attached photo, the bucket cylinders can roll the bucket toward me but it will NOT extend the cylinders. It just won't do it. Not slowly, not eventually, it just won't go. If I raise the 3PT hitch so that the rear implement is off the ground those same cylinders WILL extend. No idea what's going on but I think putting a gauge in the system will help identify things. When I do that I'll post the results.
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California
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Aczlan, not on these. The operation manual for these US Yanmars advised to plumb a loader in series ahead of the 3-point, between the pump mounted on the side of the engine and the 3-point inlet. And the US Yanmars had a pre-installed diverter block that was straight-through to the 3-point with no loader, or changeable by adding (removing?) an internal plug to send fluid out to the loader, and back into the block's other port to continue on its way to the 3-point. See my photo of this block in post #142. I also posted a scan from the Operation Manual describing this, somewhere back in this thread.
Driving the pump from the engine instead of the transmission allows all the hydraulic features to operate any time the engine is running, you don't need the clutch engaged.
Yanmars with a Powershift transmission have a separate pump inside the transmission same as an automotive A/T to send fluid through the transmission's clutch packs, and drawing from the same sump, but that pump serves only that function.
I am wondering if WoolyAcres plug is out of his diverter block? I believe it should be in there for loader use. Wondering if his loader is depending on back presssure from the 3 point in order to work?
Pretty confident without an attachment such as a loader the flow goes right through the diverter block to the 3 point. When adding a loader the plug is installed causing the flow to go through the loader before getting to the 3 point. Probably all wet here but I would take a close look at the diverter valve and just how the fluid goes through it.
Pretty confident without an attachment such as a loader the flow goes right through the diverter block to the 3 point. When adding a loader the plug is installed causing the flow to go through the loader before getting to the 3 point. Probably all wet here but I would take a close look at the diverter valve and just how the fluid goes through it.
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woolyAcres
Platinum Member
I'm not really sure how this should be plumbed. I looked back at California's post earlier in the thread to see how his compares to mine. Mine is below and it looks a bit different to me, but maybe the internals are the same? In my photo, the two flex lines run over to the loader control valve. The lower of the two feeds into the control valve IN port. The top appears to be the return from the loader valve. The solid line coming into that block at the bottom comes from the hydro pump at the front. You can see the solid pipe leaving the top of the block heads into the case just under the seat. This seems right but I have no idea what's going on inside this block or why that one bolt in the lower left on this block has a shim on it.
