My NX6010

[MinnesotaEric]

I looked up the specs for your loader, the GPM (10GPM) and pressure (2556psi). http://www.kioti.com/products/attachments/front-end-loaders/kl6010/

Here is the formula. 10x2556=25,560/1714=14.91HP I have very close to max lift at idle with the L4240. I don't have a way to compare and see how much it will lift at idle and full throttle but it not much of a difference. Horsepower has nothing to do with lift specs on a tractor. The size of the cylinders on the loader and the relief valve setting on a loader are what it important. I could take CS2410 and put larger cylinders on the loader to make it lift more. The loader cylce times would be slower though. As far as the debate on HP, if Island tractor is pulling a box blade with his DK40 and it fills up and the tractor looses traction what good would more power be? Where you will really notice more power is driving the tractor down the road. The tractor with more power will pull the hills better. More power will allow you to run larger PTO driven implements.

Here is a video where I noticed bogging, even at 1:20 backing up.

I agree

Okay, I'm tracking with you.

I found a simplified cheat-sheet for everybody reading along.

http://web.applied.com/assets/attachments/779D4407-D2AE-6FAA-7DA1CEDE2268977B.pdf

Our formula is hp = gpm x pressure / 1714

I puzzled out part of this in paging through my service manual at some point for somebody and have the benefit of leaving myself some notes on the calculated flows as rated by volume per engine revolution.

The NX series opens its relief at 3271 psi and then settles down to 2560 api according to page 11-3 in the NX service manual. The HST models flow more fluid than the gear versions. Hydraulic flow is slightly less than the spec you used at 9.615 gpm. Total flow with both sides of the pump for hydraulics, power steering, and the HST transmission is 17.857 gpm. Neither of those specs are published that accurately, but I did the math on another day and figured out the gpm flow rates.

We take these revised numbers with slightly less gpm, but higher peak pressure at we arrive at 18.34 hp for the hydraulics and a total for the pump at 34.07 hp. The engine pumps out just shy of 60hp and around I think I recall something like 140-50 ft. pounds of torque. In context, the engine should never bog, but due to restrictions, bends, the water pump, alternator, charge pump, internal frictions, and losses in the fluid to heat, we arrive at an engine that bogs down when auguring into something and due to momentum, overwhelming its own specs. Doubtlessly a larger engine with more tore to its hp rating would do better, but I've been pleased with my NX's performance.

Anyway, thanks. I learned through this.

 

[countrybumpkin]

While we are on the hydraulic topic, has anyone with a NX checked the hydraulic oil temp after running a rotary cutter for a couple of hours ? Ive been meaning to check the filter temp and the rear remote block temp with a temp gun but keep forgetting to put it in the tractor with me.

 

[ksbrdmkr]

My thought is the engine can pop the relief valve at idle or full throttle, but the system pressure will be higher with the full throttle because the relief valve has a huge amount more of fluid to bypass.

 

[IslandTractor]

My thought is the engine can pop the relief valve at idle or full throttle, but the system pressure will be higher with the full throttle because the relief valve has a huge amount more of fluid to bypass.

If so, then why does the 40hp tractor raise its FEL exactly as fast as the 60hp tractor using essentially the same loader? And why do the have identical lift capacities?

 

[MinnesotaEric]

While we are on the hydraulic topic, has anyone with a NX checked the hydraulic oil temp after running a rotary cutter for a couple of hours ? Ive been meaning to check the filter temp and the rear remote block temp with a temp gun but keep forgetting to put it in the tractor with me.

I have not, but I have thought about getting my oil tested after my midpoint PTO sprung a leak and I swapped out my tranny hydro oil with 50 hours on it and it was darker color than I expected it to be. Through TBN's private messaging I consulted with MHarryE, writing,

...do you know of a good oil sample shop in Nevis, Park Rapid, Walker area?

I've noticed that my hydro/HST oil smelled a little burnt after 50 hours and I've got two restrictions in my main power beyond line, the first through a D3 sub plate (running my third loader function), and the second through a 3rd set of rear remotes (the factory only officially blesses two sets, and using a cheap pyrometer, the entire stack is only adding about 10 degrees). The open center pump flows less than what a D3 sub plate can take (9.615 gpm at 2600 rpm). Anyway, a little burnt smell may be completely acceptable or normal, but I'd like peace of mind.

MHarryE responded explaining that he had just found out who does sample testing and found our local Zeigler shop is about the only oil lab in northern MN. I plan on picking up oil sample jars the next time I visit a Zeigler dealer.

What I can also tell you, and this is buried way, way back in this thread is that after running my rotary cutter for a couple of hours, I hit my rear remote stack with a pyrometer. Recalling that for reasons nobody has yet discovered, Kioti only offered two sets of valves in the rear, and I had my dealer install three sets of valves (one number one kit, and two number two kits, as I recall), three valves increased the hydro oil temp by ten degrees measured externally. The top the stack, as I recall, was 110 degrees and the bottom of the stack was 120 degrees. Granted the fluid is warmer inside the housing, but I didn't think that temperature was anywhere near cause for concern when I consulted temperature charts. Also, given that I'm in Minnesota and that cold hydro oil can be a death blow to pumps, added a few degrees into the oil through the third function restriction and the stack of three rear remote valves I considered a positive, so long as the heat doesn't get out of hand during longer hours of operation during the summer.

My plan is to sample the hydro fluid at 250 oils, send it in for testing, and if MHarryE is so willing, consult with him about the results of the sample test. I'll post my findings n this thread. My tractor currently has about 190 hours on it, and since I'm selling a city house, I don't expect to hit 250 hours until next year sometime.

 

[countrybumpkin]

Ok I would be curios to see what the analysis comes up with. 110 degree after a couple hrs seems to be a bit low to me mine sure seems to be hotter than that for sure. I'll defiantly have to check the temp of mine at least with a temp gun if nothing else.

 

[94BULLITT]

Okay, I'm tracking with you.

I found a simplified cheat-sheet for everybody reading along.

http://web.applied.com/assets/attachments/779D4407-D2AE-6FAA-7DA1CEDE2268977B.pdf

Our formula is hp = gpm x pressure / 1714

I puzzled out part of this in paging through my service manual at some point for somebody and have the benefit of leaving myself some notes on the calculated flows as rated by volume per engine revolution.

The NX series opens its relief at 3271 psi and then settles down to 2560 api according to page 11-3 in the NX service manual. The HST models flow more fluid than the gear versions. Hydraulic flow is slightly less than the spec you used at 9.615 gpm. Total flow with both sides of the pump for hydraulics, power steering, and the HST transmission is 17.857 gpm. Neither of those specs are published that accurately, but I did the math on another day and figured out the gpm flow rates.

We take these revised numbers with slightly less gpm, but higher peak pressure at we arrive at 18.34 hp for the hydraulics and a total for the pump at 34.07 hp. The engine pumps out just shy of 60hp and around I think I recall something like 140-50 ft. pounds of torque. In context, the engine should never bog, but due to restrictions, bends, the water pump, alternator, charge pump, internal frictions, and losses in the fluid to heat, we arrive at an engine that bogs down when auguring into something and due to momentum, overwhelming its own specs. Doubtlessly a larger engine with more tore to its hp rating would do better, but I've been pleased with my NX's performance.

Anyway, thanks. I learned through this.

That PDF has some handy stuff. I'm gonna print it.

Okay, 34hp maxing everything out. You are never going to max everything out at the same time but there really is not another way to figure it. So you have a 60hp tractor then max out the hydraulics you are left with 26hp. Kubota gives numbers for gross and net HP. For the L6060 it is 62 gross HP and 60 net HP. If we take away 2hp to for a net(alternator and water pump) you still have 24hp to spare. Then what does a/c use on a tractor? I don't think it is very much. I'll be generous and say 5hp. Now you have 19hp to spare with the hydraulics all maxed. With the hydraulics all maxed shouldn't the engine stay revved up and the hydraulics all hit the relief?

If so, then why does the 40hp tractor raise its FEL exactly as fast as the 60hp tractor using essentially the same loader? And why do the have identical lift capacities?

It is not really related to power, it is related to RPM. At a higher RPM the pump is turning faster creating more GPM.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

With the hydraulics all maxed shouldn't the engine stay revved up and the hydraulics all hit the relief?

With the engine revved up, the loader maxed, the engine stays revving and the hydro goes to relief. The HST, pump can stall the engine when under a load and combos of the HST pump and load on the loader can and does stall the engine even with anti-stall switched on (a feature, I've never puzzled out what it tries to do).

 

[94BULLITT]

With the engine revved up, the loader maxed, the engine stays revving and the hydro goes to relief. The HST, pump can stall the engine when under a load and combos of the HST pump and load on the loader can and does stall the engine even with anti-stall switched on (a feature, I've never puzzled out what it tries to do).

The stall guard on Kubotas opens the swash plates to keep the engine from stalling. The tractor accelerates faster with it on, pulls hills better, and it kicks in under a heavy load like while grading or digging wit the loader, improving performance. I was going up a steep hill in High range and turned stall guard off and the tractor dropped 2MPH instantly.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

The stall guard on Kubotas opens the swash plates to keep the engine from stalling. The tractor accelerates faster with it on, pulls hills better, and it kicks in under a heavy load like while grading or digging wit the loader, improving performance. I was going up a steep hill in High range and turned stall guard off and the tractor dropped 2MPH instantly.

There is a difference with stall-guard on or off, but I never geeked out enough to find out how it works. Since this is an electrically controlled HST, without checking, I presumed that when the engine started to stall, the ECU backed off the user requested load from the forward and rearward signal sent to the HST computer even if the user continued to mash the go pedal all the way down, but I don't really know.

I suppose in the time I took to type this, I could look it up.

<Time goes by>

Nope. The service manual doesn't share how the no stall switch works. On page 12-91 of the service manual It says that with the no stall switched on is there to protect the engine during loader work in case of momentary engine overload. I'd need to study the wiring guides and even then, it likely is a software thing buried in either the ECU or the HST controller, and unlikely the safety controller (land of all safety switch interruptions), but who knows.