Looking for first Yanmar

[California]

My use is a little specialized, I bought the YM186D specifically for its low profile to drive under orchard trees. The YM240 would be unsafe without a ROPS but its height means have to drive way down a row to find a void where I can cross to the next row, or generally get to a specific point by driving in from the perimeter. The little one can drive a diagonal across most of the orchard without running my head into something.

But I've found the YM18D has nearly the HP of the YM240 - apparently I seldom ran that at full output - and can handle the same 4 ft rotary mower with much better maneuverability. The little one is simply more productive in my environment. Plus, it doesn't make the tiring racket of the 2-cylinder YM240 so its pleasanter to use. I need to keep the YM240 only because the backhoe is too big for the little guy.

My thoughts? YM2000/YM240 (same thing) are excellent quality and the best bang for the buck if you're serious about a $2500 budget. I see them as the entry level to a real general purpose tractor. But if you can afford more then the range of suitable models is broader. Anybody else - comments?

Most everybody insists 4wd is essential for a loader, I'm alone in saying its a nice feature but at the additional cost there is a broader range of choices out there. I consider a loader essential, 4 wd nice but not essential - as illustrated in the last two photos where a driven front axle wouldn't have helped at all.

 

[Todd8665]

Plus, it doesn't make the tiring racket of the 2-cylinder YM240 so its pleasanter to use. I need to keep the YM240 only because the backhoe is too big for the little guy.

Hey now!....I've learned to appreciate that tiring racket. Probably helped me stay married this long.

 

[California]

Wooly, an old thread where I compared them:

Mowing: Big twin (YM240) vs little 3-cyl/Powershift (YM186D)



I hope your slopes don't look like this steep part of my ravine. See my posts (#5, #10) in this old thread. Clemsonfor, is Eucalyptus like this common everywhere?

Spacing of rear wheel.

 

[woolyAcres]

@California-

The picture of your rig under the Eucalyptus tree shows about the maximum slope I'd have to deal with- quite possibly steeper than what I've got. That looks steeper to me than the photos you posted early in this thread with the water tank on the back. Is that the case? It can be hard to tell with camera lens flattening things.

Regarding budget, I'd prefer to wait or stretch financially a bit to get a machine with increased usefulness.

Your comparison of the two machines mowing is helpful- a few HP either way isn't likely to be a deal breaker. My pasture/land is speckled with trees (too many low-branched Hawthorne) so a machine that is short enough to get in there would be nice. I've not seen any of these machines in person so it can be hard to tell the size. The picture you posted of the model driving your 186 made the machine look reasonably large. However, the photo of it sneaking around the orchard, mowing below the branches makes it look small.

Honestly, my head is beginning to swim with all the different options and perhaps I'm on the wrong path. I think I'll start a new thread seeking input on which machine would best for my needs rather than simply requesting input on a specific model. I'm not sure I've done a good job of laying out my intended uses. Hopefully that thread will solicit additional input.

Thanks for all your comments this far and for sharing the photos.

 

[California]

@California-

The picture of your rig under the Eucalyptus tree shows about the maximum slope I'd have to deal with- quite possibly steeper than what I've got. That looks steeper to me than the photos you posted early in this thread with the water tank on the back. Is that the case?


The picture you posted of the model driving your 186 made the machine look reasonably large. However, the photo of it sneaking around the orchard, mowing below the branches makes it look small.

I's much steeper down in the Eucalyptus. The orchard is reasonable to take the watering trailer but the inertia of water slopping around would be too dangerous down there on that steeper grade.

The model photo isn't representative of height. Here's a comparison.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...ner-here-p1530591rym240-ym186d-intarpshed-jpg

 

[clemsonfor]

The YM2000/240 have tires that come up to my belly. I can comfortably lean on them on my fore arms. but there about between my belly button and nipple line on my...maybe closer to belly button? I cant remember honestly?? i am 6'2'' tall. The 186 or 1500 size tractors have much shorter tires on them. I think waist high or maybe a tad smaller on me?

I think the 18xx series have same or close to the same size as the 240/2000 tire size but the 1500 size has smaller rims i know. And there frames are also smaller as well.

 

[winston1]

My experience says unless you have "considerable" rear weight on the rear of a small tractor with a loader you will have a hard time backing up with rear drive and a bucket full of dirt. The front wheel drive with a bucket full of dirt will dig in. Also, I believe the four wheel drive setups are much tougher and stand up to a load better then the 2 wheel unit. Not meaning to knock anybody that has a 2 wheel drive with a loader. Just expressing what I believe.

 

[clemsonfor]

Wooly, an old thread where I compared them:

Mowing: Big twin (YM240) vs little 3-cyl/Powershift (YM186D)



I hope your slopes don't look like this steep part of my ravine. See my posts (#5, #10) in this old thread. Clemsonfor, is Eucalyptus like this common everywhere?

Spacing of rear wheel.

i did notice what i thought was eucalyptus in your pics. And No we do not have it here in the south...other than like cultivar plantings. I dont think it grows anywhere on the East coast. If anywhere the south would be the only place as were closest to yalls climate. The cold i would think would kill it and limit it. I bet in south GA or FL they could grow it...but florida is not a well know area to me as there still so different as far as soils and lack of winter are concerned. Where i live here in Upstate SC we esaily and routinely hit 100F most every summer, and we easily freeze every winter and usually have regualar lows into the upper teens and low twenties each winter. the last few have been exceptional with lows in single digits. I dont think it would survive here. We can grow banana trees but if it frosts it kills them to the ground even in coastal SC.

Being a simple southerner i have not traveled many places and although i am a forester i dont study other areas and therefor really lack a knowledge of thier tree species. I have a general idea but as far as ID and specifics its just what we were taught in school. You are basically just taught forestry for the region you go to school in. So i am basically a southern Pine forester. Yes we have plenty of hardwoods both bottomland and upland but there not managed here and the quality other than some good bottom lands is not good.

 

[clemsonfor]

Here is a pic of the tires i think at the narrowist . i did a tread on swapping the tires on here.

The next is me cutting but i have none on here where i am standing beside it. I might dig those up tomorrow?

 

[clemsonfor]

My experience says unless you have "considerable" rear weight on the rear of a small tractor with a loader you will have a hard time backing up with rear drive and a bucket full of dirt. The front wheel drive with a bucket full of dirt will dig in. Also, I believe the four wheel drive setups are much tougher and stand up to a load better then the 2 wheel unit. Not meaning to knock anybody that has a 2 wheel drive with a loader. Just expressing what I believe.

And to support that statement, california has a backhoe out back so there is a good bit of weight.

But i do agree with what you said in both cases.

 

[California]

My experience says unless you have "considerable" rear weight on the rear of a small tractor with a loader you will have a hard time backing up with rear drive and a bucket full of dirt.

True that.

I had to hang a hundred+ lb chunk of cast iron pipe off the back of the box blade before the YM240 was useful to carry gravel out to a septic field project. I couldn't dig into the pile of loose gravel and get a full bucket without it. Another time, a concrete pier block (40 lbs?) in the back wheel structure of my rotary mower, to dig up and remove a raised garden bed. More recently, the backhoe extended full length like the tail of a cat to load some weight to the rear, for backing out of a downhill situation with a load of dirt. These were necessary, but they weren't hard to set up when needed. I still feel within a $2500 budget, 4x4 is a feature I would sacrifice to stay within budget.

Nobody has talked about power steering but I think its essential if you have more than just casual loader work. I generally drop the bucket, push it down to raise the front tires, turn the steering wheel while the front tires are suspended in the air, raise the bucket again, and start off in the new direction - if I have to make more than the most gradual turn. Forget turning the wheel standing still with a load suspended. (but I'm usually operating on loose, disced ground). I think all the old Massey's had power steering, model 35 and I think before.

In summary I think a loader is essential on the first tractor at a site, with 4x4 and PS highly desirable.

 

[California]

i did notice what i thought was eucalyptus in your pics. And No we do not have it here in the south...other than like cultivar plantings. The cold i would think would kill it and limit it.

Thanks! Its so common here, just a big universal ditch weed, that I wondered if it might be everywhere.

You're right, I hadn't thought that frost kills it so it range is limited.

It's a species that never should have been brought over here - not useful for furniture as the early planters intended, shades and chokes out native species, useless for firewood because it burns hot and loads a chimney with creosote that will then burn way too hot. In summary a noxious weed.


Sorry Wooly, I've sure pulled this thread off-topic far too much. :duh:

 

[woolyAcres]

Sorry Wooly, I've sure pulled this thread off-topic far too much. :duh:

Don't worry about it. This thread started out about the YM186D and morphed a long time ago. I've been enjoying the discussion, photos, and back and forth. I did however create a new thread with my problem re-stated and not specific to any one model.

 

[woolyAcres]

@clemsonfor-

Thanks for the photos. Your YM2000 looks pretty tall and narrow to me. I assume swapping the wheels and pushing them as far out as possible made a noticeable difference? Are you saying the frame and rear wheels on the YM240/TM2000 is roughly the same?

 

[California]

Are you saying the frame and rear wheels on the YM240/TM2000 is roughly the same?

They're the same tractor. YM240 is YM2000 with a few minor additions to conform to US safety requirements.

There is additional linkage in the throttle linkage so you pull, rather than push, to shut down the engine.

An integral overrun clutch (same as a bicycle coasting 'ratchet') is inside the PTO gearbox, so the inertia of a rotary mower can't push you into the side of the barn.

Horsepower on the YM240 - for the same identical engine - is rated US style: 24 hp for the engine running naked, vs 20 hp measured with a dyno attached to the PTO output, claimed in Japan for YM2000.

Later US Yanmars - and the final year (1981) for YM240, had a better air cleaner ('Donaldson' type) mounted exterior to the left side of the hood.

Green paint used until the end of this model. The Japan version went to red paint when they changed the sheet metal about 1978.

And YM240 remained in production (or at least offered as new) for a couple of years beyond YM2000.

I have some original US dealer brochures for YM240 linked from here if you are interested.

It just occurred to me - there's some history that may be obscure by now. Kubota and Yanmar set up US branches in the early 70's, following Honda, Toyota, etc. Around 1980 Yanmar contracted with Deere to build Deere's whole line of small tractors for the US market, and gradually abandoned their presence here probably as a term of that contract. These US Yanmars are still here but are now vastly outnumbered by the used Japanese Yanmars brought over second hand by independent dealers later. (Yanmar returned to the US market about 5 years ago selling top-quality equipment but those dealers never heard of the older Yanmars.)

And something I made up that might become urban legend - I think YM240 was the specific US Yanmar model that spooked Deere into not trying to compete against Yanmar in the US market for under 40 hp tractors. Deere recognized they had been outclassed before they could ever start their own development and it made more sense to just buy ready-made tractors to sell as Deeres.

The resulting Yanmar-Deeres started with the Deere 750-850-950 etc series. I think its the Deere 850 that is a manual transmission version of YM2500 for example. Most of the other Yanmar-Deeres were contract-spec'ed so don't have a direct twin in Japan, but they are generally built from common Yanmar components.

 

[kenmac]

One more pic for Clemsonfor and Winston. I posted this here last Thanksgiving.

As soon as the rains come the place looks a lot better!

He's probably got his belly full of apples :laughing:

 

[woolyAcres]

It's a fascinating history.

Thanks for spelling out the differences between the made for US models (YM240) and the made for Japan, but imported into the US models (YM2000). I suppose that's what someone was trying to say earlier but I was too dense to catch it. Is there are decoder or trick to recognizing which US models map to which imported models? It seems like there are more imported/grey market models than made for US.

The brochure and additional photos you linked to make the YM240D look like something that could really get some work done. That might be a suitable tractor for what I want to do, or at least a really good starter tractor. A YM276D looks like it would be a pretty good fit as well. I'm not sure I've ever seen one of those for sale.

My path to the older Yanmars started with that Case excavator back a few posts. The engine in that machine just runs so well that I looked into who made it. When I found out it was a Yanmar I started researching their newer machines. I was dead set on an EX3200 with FEL about 4 months ago but some things came up and the money for that is gone, but I was hot onto Yanmars and the need for a tractor. I've seen a few local JDs. In face I've seen a 750 in person. Frankly, that'd be a very nice size for my needs. The ones I've seen have all had turfs and the green JD paint seems to add a premium to the price. That why I shifted over to the original Yanmar.

 

[clemsonfor]

It's a fascinating history.

Thanks for spelling out the differences between the made for US models (YM240) and the made for Japan, but imported into the US models (YM2000). I suppose that's what someone was trying to say earlier but I was too dense to catch it. Is there are decoder or trick to recognizing which US models map to which imported models? It seems like there are more imported/grey market models than made for US.

The brochure and additional photos you linked to make the YM240D look like something that could really get some work done. That might be a suitable tractor for what I want to do, or at least a really good starter tractor. A YM276D looks like it would be a pretty good fit as well. I'm not sure I've ever seen one of those for sale.

My path to the older Yanmars started with that Case excavator back a few posts. The engine in that machine just runs so well that I looked into who made it. When I found out it was a Yanmar I started researching their newer machines. I was dead set on an EX3200 with FEL about 4 months ago but some things came up and the money for that is gone, but I was hot onto Yanmars and the need for a tractor. I've seen a few local JDs. In face I've seen a 750 in person. Frankly, that'd be a very nice size for my needs. The ones I've seen have all had turfs and the green JD paint seems to add a premium to the price. That why I shifted over to the original Yanmar.

There are more grey models. there are few imports sold here under there three digit model number. no expert and i am sure i will leave some out but there is like the 186/7, 240, and 336 and maybe just a few others? I wont even begin to list all the grey models there lots. And there itterations of transmissions and setups. take for example the 2200 thats a geared tractor and an orphin not well supported model to say the least, then there is the 2210 which is similar newer powershift model and the 2210 where it too is powershift the only difference i think is one shifted on the colum and one on the dash. I think the latter is shifted on the sterring column but i am not a powershift expert on the shifters either. For just regular tractors they start at something like 1100 which is similar to the garden tractors of the 60-70s and i think there is some ultra rare like 4500s or something? anything bigger than like ym3000 is not common even it is rarely seen.

 

[winston1]

The 240 US and 2000 grey are likely the closest cousins of any. After that the differences get a little more. You can note the engine model numbers given that will clue in on closest cousins. Same thing can be done with the green John Deere's although differences may become even more. I don't think John Deere ever used the power shift transmissions.

Sure wouldn't rule out the F series either. They have a flat platform that makes mounting and dismounting much easier. Little more modern. I had the opportunity to operate one of them and was impressed. Their pto hp is indicated by model #.

 

[clemsonfor]

There are more grey models. there are few imports sold here under there three digit model number. no expert and i am sure i will leave some out but there is like the 186/7, 240, and 336 and maybe just a few others? I wont even begin to list all the grey models there lots. And there itterations of transmissions and setups. take for example the 2200 thats a geared tractor and an orphin not well supported model to say the least, then there is the 2210 which is similar newer powershift model and the 2210 where it too is powershift the only difference i think is one shifted on the colum and one on the dash. I think the latter is shifted on the sterring column but i am not a powershift expert on the shifters either. For just regular tractors they start at something like 1100 which is similar to the garden tractors of the 60-70s and i think there is some ultra rare like 4500s or something? anything bigger than like ym3000 is not common even it is rarely seen.

California i was watching i think the first episode of this seasons Mythbusters off my dvr last night and i saw the same trees you posted when they were at the shooting range they go too. I assume them to be the Eukalyptus (spelling??) The side of the hill of the little valley the range was in looked like your ravine cover type

I have a buddy that just moved out to Northern California to work for the BIN (bureau of indian affairs) i wish i could see just some of california. NO desire to see the mega cities but the country side, the hillsides and the huge trees in some of the forests are my interest. I watch lots of reality shows (not sure why i like them so much. i guess cause i see and learn about other areas allbeit that much of what they say you cant trust but the scenery is not faked.) and i saw this season of filthy riches on NATGEO they followed a burl hunter in california. Pretty rolling hillsides as he searched oaks and in a walnut grove for burls. I dont think i will be in a place to visit before my buddy leaves his job there in California to head back this way...unless his life turns? But he has no plans to stay forever.