clemsonfor
Super Member
these pictures make it look like it hasent rained in 5 months!!! I know yall are in a drought but how are those trees not dead!!
Looking for first Yanmar
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California
Super Star Member
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- Jan 22, 2004
- Messages
- 16,688
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- An hour north of San Francisco
- Tractor
- Yanmar YM240 Yanmar YM186D
It never rains in California. 
Seriously, when I worked construction we figured the rainy season is only roughly Thanksgiving to Easter. All summer here is normally bone dry with very rarely a light shower. This region was basically a desert until all the 38 million people moved here.
Nearly all commercial agriculture relies on irrigation. There's an extensive network of canals, fed from major dams that rely on snowpack in the Sierras to refill all spring and summer. The lack of snowpack is the disaster we're facing now.
But for me - I'm only 10 miles inland from the Pacific Ocean and we wake up to ocean fog blowing in most days whenever the inland is warmer than the ocean. These apple trees draw their moisture partly from this fog through their leaves, as well as from deep roots that spread out at the hardpan layer a couple of ft down. I water new trees regularly for the first two years as they establish foliage and these deep roots, but this year for example I only watered a few of the 2012 trees, the ones that looked like they were having a hard time. Apple orchards in most regions are irrigated or get rainfall but in this coastal band they do ok with neither.
I put some photos of various times of year in this old thread. (and we eventually found a source for the Gravensteins I was inquiring about).
More - the impassable ravine at my back boundary. As more neighbors rip out apples and fence new vineyards, this has become the only refuge for the deer etc that used to roam all over. Well, the ravine and my orchard are the local 'zoo'. Deer pic. I seem to be feeding every critter you could imagine with these apples, and the family pear tree etc. Bird netting around new trees is essential to keep the deer from grazing on the tasty new leaves.
And when the rain finally comes it gets gorgeous again.
Family Persimmon tree down in back - a photo I posted here 12/2004.
Seriously, when I worked construction we figured the rainy season is only roughly Thanksgiving to Easter. All summer here is normally bone dry with very rarely a light shower. This region was basically a desert until all the 38 million people moved here.
Nearly all commercial agriculture relies on irrigation. There's an extensive network of canals, fed from major dams that rely on snowpack in the Sierras to refill all spring and summer. The lack of snowpack is the disaster we're facing now.
But for me - I'm only 10 miles inland from the Pacific Ocean and we wake up to ocean fog blowing in most days whenever the inland is warmer than the ocean. These apple trees draw their moisture partly from this fog through their leaves, as well as from deep roots that spread out at the hardpan layer a couple of ft down. I water new trees regularly for the first two years as they establish foliage and these deep roots, but this year for example I only watered a few of the 2012 trees, the ones that looked like they were having a hard time. Apple orchards in most regions are irrigated or get rainfall but in this coastal band they do ok with neither.
I put some photos of various times of year in this old thread. (and we eventually found a source for the Gravensteins I was inquiring about).
More - the impassable ravine at my back boundary. As more neighbors rip out apples and fence new vineyards, this has become the only refuge for the deer etc that used to roam all over. Well, the ravine and my orchard are the local 'zoo'. Deer pic. I seem to be feeding every critter you could imagine with these apples, and the family pear tree etc. Bird netting around new trees is essential to keep the deer from grazing on the tasty new leaves.
And when the rain finally comes it gets gorgeous again.
Family Persimmon tree down in back - a photo I posted here 12/2004.
OP
woolyAcres
Platinum Member
I really do like the fuel economy these tractors offer which is something easy to over look. They also seem to be much more reasonably priced than the comparable Kubota- even of the same age/hours. I think my biggest concerns about them are the lack of ROPS (which seems to be an addressable issue) and, along with that, the stability. But I think as California as demonstrated they are capable on hilly terrain with some caution and knowledge.
I haven't really looked at the older Masseys and Ford (8n). I'm pretty set on 4WD since I need to move snow in the winter and spring here can be awfully muddy but cold enough to still need firewood hauled from the woods.
Widening my search (both geographically and financially) turned up an YM1820D. No loader but it does include a pull-behind finish mower. Asking $4500 obo. It's a slightly larger HP tractor than the 186. But doesn't seem to be as popular. Any thoughts?
I haven't really looked at the older Masseys and Ford (8n). I'm pretty set on 4WD since I need to move snow in the winter and spring here can be awfully muddy but cold enough to still need firewood hauled from the woods.
Widening my search (both geographically and financially) turned up an YM1820D. No loader but it does include a pull-behind finish mower. Asking $4500 obo. It's a slightly larger HP tractor than the 186. But doesn't seem to be as popular. Any thoughts?
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woolyAcres
Platinum Member
It never rains in California.
I put some photos of various times of year in this old thread. (and we eventually found a source for the Gravensteins I was inquiring about).
More - the impassable ravine at my back boundary. As more neighbors rip out apples and fence new vineyards, this has become the only refuge for the deer etc that used to roam all over. Well, the ravine and my orchard are the local 'zoo'. Deer pic. I seem to be feeding every critter you could imagine with these apples, and the family pear tree etc. Bird netting around new trees is essential to keep the deer from grazing on the tasty new leaves.
And when the rain finally comes it gets gorgeous again.
Family Persimmon tree down in back - a photo I posted here 12/2004.
Beautiful tree. It looks like a gorgeous property. I've got family in Lodi and Livermore, CA but that's quite different from where you are. Great stuff. Thanks for sharing.
The 1820 has the 3t80U-NB engine, almost the same as my former 2002D 3t80U-NAP. Don't have a clue what they did to change hp from 18 to 20? I can tell you both engines are not sleeved. How many hours on the tractor? It will have a 5 digit reading including tenths. Some of the 1820's have factory gearbox power steering. It also has wet disc brakes that work great. Those finish mowers sell for $500 and up in my area. Seems to me to be priced right "if" in good condition.
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woolyAcres
Platinum Member
@winston1-
Thanks for your comments on the 1820D. I believe that tractor has about 900 hours on it. Just heard back from him and it's sold as well. It was on Craigslist for a couple weeks but I hadn't really been looking at tractors that expensive or far away. I'm curious. What are the advantages and disadvantages of a sleeved engine?
Thanks for your comments on the 1820D. I believe that tractor has about 900 hours on it. Just heard back from him and it's sold as well. It was on Craigslist for a couple weeks but I hadn't really been looking at tractors that expensive or far away. I'm curious. What are the advantages and disadvantages of a sleeved engine?
A sleeved engine can have new sleeves installed and go back with original pistons/rings. If a non sleeved engine has cylinder wear it has to be bored out and over sized pistons/rings installed. My 2002D had over 3000 hrs on it with original piston size and cylinders were still showing very little wear. It is possible on some engines to have liners put in them at a machine shop. Aaron of Hoye's dad had liners put in a 1610 if I am not mistaken. After all that rambling I probably wouldn't let either sway my buying. If I had two tractors exactly the same condition, one with liners, one without, I would probably buy the one with liners.
California
Super Star Member
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- An hour north of San Francisco
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- Yanmar YM240 Yanmar YM186D
That era has now passed, but I think the sleeved engines were intended to be maintained virtually forever by shade tree mechanics using hand tools. An experienced diesel mechanic, if you can find one today, could do an in-frame overhaul at your location in a couple of days making a virtually new engine.
Yanmar's principal business is boat and ship diesels. Tractors are a second application of the engines. In-place overhaul is a significant advantage for a marine diesel in a small commercial fishing boat, for example.
Yanmar's principal business is boat and ship diesels. Tractors are a second application of the engines. In-place overhaul is a significant advantage for a marine diesel in a small commercial fishing boat, for example.
California
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- An hour north of San Francisco
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- Yanmar YM240 Yanmar YM186D
One more pic for Clemsonfor and Winston. I posted this here last Thanksgiving.
As soon as the rains come the place looks a lot better!
Last edited:
clemsonfor
Super Member
I am sure it was more than 900? Maybe it had a different meter put in at a rebuild? Maybe not.
A sleeved engine can be rebuilt an infinite amount of times in theory. You push the sleeves out. The sleeves are pressed into the block and the piston goes in the sleeve or liner. This allows the liner to either be honed in a rebuild or if destroyed or gouged out it can be replaced and in any combination either new piston and rings or if you hone a liner you can use the same pirston and new rings maybe able to get an oversize ring but usually honeing is not doing much but removing a glaze. An unsleeved motor is like in your car or truck. to rebuild it they would have to bore out any damage to the cylinder walls and then use and oversize piston and ring to take up the slack. You can only do this about once before the block material gets to thin and would not allow the use of that motor anymore. This is where the lined or sleeved motor comes in as a better thing. As long as a piston or some damage to the block has not occured you can use that block and rebuild it infanitly. NOw in these little over engineered tractors how many times would one rebuild one??? Hopefully never need to but if you do, you can get all the parts from Hoye and resleeve these motors and put to bearing and pistons and rings in and have the head serviced and will be as good as new for 30 more years. I am sure the same is true to the unsleeved motors should last just as long you would just have to have a shop bore the block out which means taking the block to them or the tractor to do the work where as the other you can rebuild as a whole unit still in the tractor.
And as far as mud goes i can tell you i can get my 2wd ym2000 in places i really should not be in!!! This means through all kinds of mudholes in the woods. NOw if your on slopes i dont think i would take a 4wd tractor on any slopes that are that muddy anyway as it will also probably slid down hill but will still last longer as its traction would be on all 4 tires. 2wd tractors are not to be compared to 2wd trucks. a tractor with the back tires diff locked will go through some pretty deep sloppy mud...stuff that would stick a 4wd truck.
A sleeved engine can be rebuilt an infinite amount of times in theory. You push the sleeves out. The sleeves are pressed into the block and the piston goes in the sleeve or liner. This allows the liner to either be honed in a rebuild or if destroyed or gouged out it can be replaced and in any combination either new piston and rings or if you hone a liner you can use the same pirston and new rings maybe able to get an oversize ring but usually honeing is not doing much but removing a glaze. An unsleeved motor is like in your car or truck. to rebuild it they would have to bore out any damage to the cylinder walls and then use and oversize piston and ring to take up the slack. You can only do this about once before the block material gets to thin and would not allow the use of that motor anymore. This is where the lined or sleeved motor comes in as a better thing. As long as a piston or some damage to the block has not occured you can use that block and rebuild it infanitly. NOw in these little over engineered tractors how many times would one rebuild one??? Hopefully never need to but if you do, you can get all the parts from Hoye and resleeve these motors and put to bearing and pistons and rings in and have the head serviced and will be as good as new for 30 more years. I am sure the same is true to the unsleeved motors should last just as long you would just have to have a shop bore the block out which means taking the block to them or the tractor to do the work where as the other you can rebuild as a whole unit still in the tractor.
And as far as mud goes i can tell you i can get my 2wd ym2000 in places i really should not be in!!! This means through all kinds of mudholes in the woods. NOw if your on slopes i dont think i would take a 4wd tractor on any slopes that are that muddy anyway as it will also probably slid down hill but will still last longer as its traction would be on all 4 tires. 2wd tractors are not to be compared to 2wd trucks. a tractor with the back tires diff locked will go through some pretty deep sloppy mud...stuff that would stick a 4wd truck.
clemsonfor
Super Member
i see yall beat me to it. I opened this earlier this mourning here at work. Got side tracked and did other things and finially came back to this thread to respond. I see i have been beat to it by several posts
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woolyAcres
Platinum Member
i see yall beat me to it. I opened this earlier this mourning here at work. Got side tracked and did other things and finially came back to this thread to respond. I see i have been beat to it by several posts
I appreciate all the input. Based on how well these little engines are built, as winston said, it's probably not a big deal in the overall evaluation of the tractor. I'm grateful for the education nonetheless.
I'll keep browsing Craigslist to see what's out there. I really do appreciate all the opinions, evaluations, and education. And certainly do appreciate California's photos. That latest photo could have been taken out my back window! Where I am in PA gets LOTS of rain so we look like that most of the year. When we're not under snow that is.
California
Super Star Member
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- Jan 22, 2004
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- 16,688
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- An hour north of San Francisco
- Tractor
- Yanmar YM240 Yanmar YM186D
4wd is nice but in my opinion YM2000 is the size where you break over the line to what Clemsonfor is describing - big rear tires plus a locked differential will pull you through muddy places where the small front tires Yanmar uses won't make much difference. Drive to the front wheels is important to make the thing turn where you want it to go assuming dirt not mud, but for bad mud it will generally work better to put the loader bucket down and toboggan the front end instead of trying to pull with the front wheels - they just make deep ruts that they have to climb out of. Steering to one side doesn't do anything, it just makes the back work harder to push them while they are sideways.
A loader is the best thing you could have to pull or push the tractor when its really bogged down - well that plus tugging with the backhoe too. I won't clutter this page of the thread with more photos but I have one where I dug out a stump, drove across the fill to compact it like I usually do, and discovered mud fill 3 ft deep doesn't support driving over like normal earth fill. It took 5~10 minutes to inch the YM240 forward a couple of ft and climb out of that hole.
A loader is the best thing you could have to pull or push the tractor when its really bogged down - well that plus tugging with the backhoe too. I won't clutter this page of the thread with more photos but I have one where I dug out a stump, drove across the fill to compact it like I usually do, and discovered mud fill 3 ft deep doesn't support driving over like normal earth fill.
It took 5~10 minutes to inch the YM240 forward a couple of ft and climb out of that hole.
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woolyAcres
Platinum Member
Nonesense. I love the photos and I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd appreciate seeing your tractor up to or beyond the axles in mud.
California
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2004
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- 16,688
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- An hour north of San Francisco
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- Yanmar YM240 Yanmar YM186D
Wooly, your place is green year round? That sounds gorgeous. I see pictures of the Eastern woods and greenbelts and that seems like a different world from the severe dry summers here.
At least our recent hot spell - up to 109 - has passed and this coastal zone is back to normal summer weather. 9:30 am here and it hasn't reached 60 degrees yet. The overnight fog is gradually lifting to thick overcast and the sun should burn through around noon. I should be out picking the apples we store in the second refrigerator for family use later.
At least our recent hot spell - up to 109 - has passed and this coastal zone is back to normal summer weather. 9:30 am here and it hasn't reached 60 degrees yet. The overnight fog is gradually lifting to thick overcast and the sun should burn through around noon. I should be out picking the apples we store in the second refrigerator for family use later.
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woolyAcres
Platinum Member
My desire for 4WD is based on two things. The first is snow/ice. I need a machine I can use to keep my 700' up-and-down driveway clear in winter. Currently I have a 20HP Wheel Horse (2wd)with a plow on the front. I've loaded the tires and have chains for winter and that works reasonably well. Better in fact than the FEL on my father's 4WD to be honest, but maybe that's not a fair fight. His ag tires aren't loaded and don't do well on slippery compacted snow/ice. The wheel horse will probably be sold to make room/money for a new tractor. It's a good little tractor and very capable in the snow, but it can't do any of the other larger things I want/need (loader, 3PT hitch, etc). It does have a 5' mowing deck with it so getting a tractor that has some type of mower will be necessary if I want to replace the wheel horse.
The second reason for wanting 4WD is the interest in a loader. My experience with the larger NH suggests that 4WD is a big help when it comes to front-end loader work. My father had an old David Brown 2WD with FEL that he used for years, but the 4WD NH does things you'd never have considered with the old David Brown.
I'm curious about this crossover point California and clemsonfor are talking about. Is there a series or size of these old yammers that have a different body style? The 186 that I saw photos of appeared to be a bit wider in stance and with fatter tires (at least on the front). I thought that looked different than most older Yanmars which are somewhat distinctive with with tall and skinny tires. I think I'm partial to the wider tires for stability and traction; even going so far as to consider getting industrial tires for the wider stance, though I've heard they aren't any good in mud.
There's a very nice, clean 336 for sale a couple hours from me. It appears to have a larger stance. Maybe it's the turf tires? Asking price is $22K without loader. Well, well out of my price range, and apparently other's as well because it's been for sale for a more than a month.
The second reason for wanting 4WD is the interest in a loader. My experience with the larger NH suggests that 4WD is a big help when it comes to front-end loader work. My father had an old David Brown 2WD with FEL that he used for years, but the 4WD NH does things you'd never have considered with the old David Brown.
I'm curious about this crossover point California and clemsonfor are talking about. Is there a series or size of these old yammers that have a different body style? The 186 that I saw photos of appeared to be a bit wider in stance and with fatter tires (at least on the front). I thought that looked different than most older Yanmars which are somewhat distinctive with with tall and skinny tires. I think I'm partial to the wider tires for stability and traction; even going so far as to consider getting industrial tires for the wider stance, though I've heard they aren't any good in mud.
There's a very nice, clean 336 for sale a couple hours from me. It appears to have a larger stance. Maybe it's the turf tires? Asking price is $22K without loader. Well, well out of my price range, and apparently other's as well because it's been for sale for a more than a month.
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woolyAcres
Platinum Member
It's green here from about mid-April until mid-October when the leaves fall off the trees. Here's a photo from my Dad's place (maybe the worst view of it frankly). This was a couple weeks ago- 3 weeks into one of the driest stretches we've had in years. Foreground is mowed as part of the yard around the house. Other side of the fence is cow pasture. Neighbor down the road is having his land timbered and the crew is selling slab wood- $15/bundle for hardwoods. These bundles weigh close to 4000#. That's what the excavator was for- getting them unloaded from the truck. Just to prove we're still on topic, that excavator has a very nice Yanmar engine in it. Thing runs great!
California
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- Yanmar YM240 Yanmar YM186D
Well if you insist ...
Here's the 2013 instance I described, inching out of a mud stump-hole fill that one side sunk into when I tried to compact it. You can't drive out of bottomless mud when the weight rests on the chassis instead of on the tires. 4wd wouldn't have helped, the front wheel on the opposite side was off the ground.
I have another photo where I'm removing a stump in the rain, and tried to drive across the pile of mud I had just excavated. The tractor simply drove into it instead of climbing the pile. It took me a little while to figure out why it wouldn't move, the backhoe outriggers weren't lifted high enough and served as anchors. Lowering the bucket to rest some weight on the mud dug those rear outriggers in worse. That one was more than ten minutes to get out.
Found the 2009 photo. Again, half the problem is it isn't level, it was working its ways sideways into the excavation as I struggled for traction. As I recall that one was about 20 minutes to try different alternatives. Finally getting the weight off those rear outriggers (using the backhoe to both lift, and tug backward) was the key.
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woolyAcres
Platinum Member
That's a job well done. Both getting stuck and getting un-stuck. I love it.
There are a few YM240s on the regional Craigslist. 2WD like your's but without loader. You don't seem to miss the 4WD with loader? You mentioned your opinion of the 186D. What are your thoughts on the 240?
There are a few YM240s on the regional Craigslist. 2WD like your's but without loader. You don't seem to miss the 4WD with loader? You mentioned your opinion of the 186D. What are your thoughts on the 240?
