Snow removal tractor setup questions.

Ugarte · Jun 28, 2015

I'll be buying a new tractor before the snow flies primarily for snow removal use--probably Kubota B2601 or L2501. Loader bucket on front; 3pt pto snowblower on rear; front mount blower too complicated and too expensive, imho. I'll be blowing the snow from from about 100 feet of crushed stone driveway--like coarse sand--and from paths across frozen mown fields to various outbuildings. We experienced Maine's coldest and third snowy-est winter on record this last year and I had to wade across a six foot drift all winter because my trusty walk behind blower just couldn't keep up--never again. So, questions:
1. Is 20 pto hp enough for 64" 3pt snowblower? Is 20 enough for a 51" blower? (Kubota L2501 or B2601.)
2. Will a 3pt blower power through frozen, crusty, week-old snow? (As a walk-behind decidedly will not.)
3. R4's without chains or turf with chains?
4. Engine block heater required? Coolant heater required? Any other starting or running cold weather equipment required? (Winter in coastal Maine. Lows to -10F. Third snowiest winter on record last year; snowstorm twice a week for two months.)
5. How stable is a 4X4 tractor, FEL on front/blower on back, backing through 2 feet of snow across gently sloping frozen fields? (Planted solid or Nantucket sleighride?)
6. Kubota snowblower or third party? (Can I do better cost-per-value by not buying the SB with the tractor?)
7. Any other advice appreciated, thanks.

leonz · Jun 29, 2015

Ugarte said:
I'll be buying a new tractor before the snow flies primarily for snow removal use--probably Kubota B2601 or L2501. Loader bucket on front; 3pt pto snowblower on rear; front mount blower too complicated and too expensive, imho. I'll be blowing the snow from from about 100 feet of crushed stone driveway--like coarse sand--and from paths across frozen mown fields to various outbuildings. We experienced Maine's coldest and third snowy-est winter on record this last year and I had to wade across a six foot drift all winter because my trusty walk behind blower just couldn't keep up--never again. So, questions:
1. Is 20 pto hp enough for 64" 3pt snowblower? Is 20 enough for a 51" blower? (Kubota L2501 or B2601.)
2. Will a 3pt blower power through frozen, crusty, week-old snow? (As a walk-behind decidedly will not.)
3. R4's without chains or turf with chains?
4. Engine block heater required? Coolant heater required? Any other starting or running cold weather equipment required? (Winter in coastal Maine. Lows to -10F. Third snowiest winter on record last year; snowstorm twice a week for two months.)
5. How stable is a 4X4 tractor, FEL on front/blower on back, backing through 2 feet of snow across gently sloping frozen fields? (Planted solid or Nantucket sleighride?)
6. Kubota snowblower or third party? (Can I do better cost-per-value by not buying the SB with the tractor?)
7. Any other advice appreciated, thanks.

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1. It all depends on your wallet, what your time is worth, and how much time you have.
a. many of the members have wider snow casters with smaller mules and
do not worry about how much time it takes as they can take half cuts
after opening the first pass.
b. you need at least 2 sets of rear remotes for hydraulic chute and spout control-
you will be glad you bought those options.

2. Yes it will; Saying that the new Yamaha track drive snowblowers are also
a kick *** walk behind snow caster with glowing reviews. They will cut
through packed snow and their weight will prevent them from riding up
on the snow pack. You would have to cross the border to buy one in
Ontario Province and bring it back to Maine.

3. Loaded rear turf tires with Windshield washer fluid for ballast as it costs less,
you can fill the rears yourself with a fill valve from Gemplers.
a. 2 link V bar chains-2 link means the cross chains are separated two links apart
b. chain tensioners.
c. Snow Chains have to be installed properly otherwise you are in big trouble and screwed big time when you throw
a chain.

4. yes an engine block heater is a good idea even with the mule parked inside. A salamander is also a plus as
it will heat the ENTIRE tractor up quickly as you will have cold hydraulic and transmission oil to deal with otherwise
a. The coolant heater and the salamander are all you need- if you have a space heater great you have the problem licked.
Your going to want a salamander if you fo not own one to melt the ice and snow to prevent issues of stuck impellers-
using it before you start or after you finish clearing.
b. purchase a Racor diesel fuel filter system for the mule as the Kubota filters plug up and freeze and its another case of
being behind the 8 ball when it dies on you and you have to change the filters where your mule stops. The Salamander
will not prevent the cheap filters from freezing on you.
c. you will need to use diesel fuel treatment for the fresh fuel. A water separator filter from racor is also a good investment
as both the plastic and metal fuel cans are moisture magnets.

5. very stable, you need to put weight in the bucket(sand or solid concrete blocks) for more ballast and traction for the front end.

6. Pronovost(1) Lorenz(2)Allied Farm King(3) Kubota units are made by RAD and I own a green one and they are
)(*&^%$%^&*(. YES I am fussy as I hate changing shear pins when I am clearing land with mine!!

Pronovost and Lorenz have more options, The pronovost P540, P620 models have an extended chute option(semi industrial)

to keep the snow out of your face.

You will be better off buying in the summer as they are impossible to get in the spring fall or winter.

Just remember I do not have my hand on your wallet; and when they start blinking their eyes when
you start asking questions about the mule or thier branded snow blower using my suggestions WALK AWAY
with your wallet in your hand and not in your pocket.

7. send me a PM if you have more questions. Look at the bigger Yamahas as you will be able to buy 3 of them for the cost of a mule and a rear mount.

Ugarte · Jun 29, 2015

Such a detailed and knowledgeable reply. You're a generous man, Leon. I now see that there's more to this business than simply hooking up the caster and throwing the switch (I had to Google "salamander"). I'm off to the dealer this am, but I'll keep you posted. Thanks.

nybirdman · Jun 29, 2015

My tractor sits out-side(Northern NY on the border) and never needed more than a block heater to start.
I use R1 tires and a front mounted snowplow but for the size tractor you are looking at a blower would be better.

Shift4200 · Jun 29, 2015

I have 20hp (claimed) at the PTO and use a 54in Woods (SB-54s) blower. 60% of my driveway is at ~7% grade and I've always felt stable and had good traction with my r4/Chain setup.

I always did my clearing right after the storm, but had no trouble going thru the icy mess left at the end of the driveway by the plows even when it was almost the max (24in) depth.

My tractor is stored outside (Southern New England) in one of those tent style garages and I have no block heater. I had a few cranky starts this past winter, but it did start every time.

I imagine you would get a better deal on the blower when buying with the tractor. But that's just an assumption. I bought mine separate and felt i got a really good deal.

-J

dave1949 · Jun 29, 2015

I would choose the tires for the non-winter uses and plan on putting good chains on whatever tire style you choose for snow removal. Since you have a stone driveway you can use some really aggressive chains and not hurt anything. Tire grip and weight are what you need for easy snow removal. R4's are probably the worst tire style for winter traction.

100' is not a lot of driveway for the size tractor you are looking at. You didn't say how far it is to the outbuildings or if you need to get to them daily. I really think you could manage with just a FEL depending on the outbuilding situation. It would be worth trying for a season or two given the price of blowers IMO.

I have a 1/2 mile loop that I keep open for dog walking in winter. Most of the time I just put the bucket down level to the ground and push through the snow letting it bunch up along the side of the lane. It's surprising how much the snow will back away from the cleared sides on sunny days. If it's deep enough to come over the bucket I go around a second time for clean-up. That is faster than blowing and a lot more comfortable on an open station.

For blowing comfort it's all about the wind direction and unfortunately my lane loop goes to the west from the house.

I could drive to the far end and blow snow coming back, or just grit my teeth and have at it which is what I do. I don't like taking my only tractor far into uncleared snow in case something goes wrong and I'd have no way to get to it with my truck.

I do have a rear blower that I usually use on the wider 650' driveway, and the walking lane if the snow is drifted deep in a few places, but I could've (and have) done it all without the blower. The FEL gets messy and time consuming on the driveway because 6' (my bucket width) is not wide enough and the FEL doesn't slant left or right like a plow will so it leaves a trail of snow on each side of the bucket. Not the end of the world and 100' feet certainly wouldn't take long to go back over.

Snowblowers tend to leave a nice trench that the next drifting snow will fill pretty quickly. Pushing the snow back as you clear with a FEL or plow avoids some of that.

HEC · Jun 29, 2015

Ugarte said:
I'll be buying a new tractor before the snow flies primarily for snow removal use--probably Kubota B2601 or L2501. Loader bucket on front; 3pt pto snowblower on rear; front mount blower too complicated and too expensive, imho. I'll be blowing the snow from from about 100 feet of crushed stone driveway--like coarse sand--and from paths across frozen mown fields to various outbuildings. We experienced Maine's coldest and third snowy-est winter on record this last year and I had to wade across a six foot drift all winter because my trusty walk behind blower just couldn't keep up--never again. So, questions:
1. Is 20 pto hp enough for 64" 3pt snowblower? Is 20 enough for a 51" blower? (Kubota L2501 or B2601.)
2. Will a 3pt blower power through frozen, crusty, week-old snow? (As a walk-behind decidedly will not.)
3. R4's without chains or turf with chains?
4. Engine block heater required? Coolant heater required? Any other starting or running cold weather equipment required? (Winter in coastal Maine. Lows to -10F. Third snowiest winter on record last year; snowstorm twice a week for two months.)
5. How stable is a 4X4 tractor, FEL on front/blower on back, backing through 2 feet of snow across gently sloping frozen fields? (Planted solid or Nantucket sleighride?)
6. Kubota snowblower or third party? (Can I do better cost-per-value by not buying the SB with the tractor?)
7. Any other advice appreciated, thanks.

1. I have about 20 pto hp and have no problem with a front 60 inch blower .

2. The rear mount blower and front end loader is a great set up and you will have no problem as long as you have hst .

3. I use loaded R4's without chains no problem. (4wd of course )

4. My tractor is in a garage but I still use the block heater for about hr. if it is below 32 .

5. Stable

6. Find the best deal , I never broke a shear pin all winter , the trick is not to overload the blower .

7. Try and stay warm

dave1949 · Jun 29, 2015

I've had good and bad experiences with R4's in winter. They worked fine on a short ~100', flat, asphalt or stone drive in Wells, ME. I left the backhoe on for weight. Here I have a sloped, stone, much longer drive with a southern exposure. After I did a tractor slow-mo 360, and could have ended up in the road, and got stuck a couple times, I decided I needed chains. Love my chains. :thumbsup:

Amvcane · Jun 29, 2015

I'm in total agreement with HEC.
Start looking now and buy a used 3pt blower. You will save yourself a lot of money.

chim · Jun 29, 2015

This past winter was my first with a snow blower and it was a lot of fun. Mine is a used and repainted 64" Pronovost. Added electric chute rotation and up/down with rocker switches on a pendant in the cab. I discovered that slowing to a crawl while backing toward garage doors allowed the blower to remove almost all the snow and limit the hand shoveling.

I also made side extensions that lock on the loader bucket and are each held with one bolt. They make a difference when pushing snow.

PILOON · Jun 30, 2015

Most advise given is valid, IMHO. (and Hi to Leonz)
I am cabbed, loaded, 60" rear blower with front blade for light snows on a 20HP Mitsubishi and in snowy Quebec.
Naturally techniques help and are soon acquired.
My CUT sleeps outside but always starts with simple block heater as long as it is plugged in 1-2 hrs B4 using. (I use a wireless remote switch)
My drive is hilly so chains are a great asset as are loaded tires.
On a crushed stone drive you will want to build up a base of compacted snow to avoid blowing stone everywhere.
Simply lower the blower skids to allow about 2" of snow to remain for the first couple of snowfalls until that is well packed down to create a frozen base. (I even drive back and forth with tractor to do this)
I have found that most blower skids really want to have longer and wider skids otherwise many blowers remove the base as well.

Last winter I never even sheared a single pin while in the past with factory skids I'd go thru dozens.
Generally my base consists of about 2" of frozen compacted snow/ice.

And as to blowers, better to stay away from 'Tractor brands' as most are rather lightweight generics painted to match the tractor.
Stick with well known like: Pronovost, Puma etc. I'd suggest avoiding those that are gear box center driven in favor of those that have a chain drive on the end.
If you are well wooded and far from neighbors you might only need powered chute rotation thus avoiding that second rear hydraulic circuit for the deflector. (just a thought)
Same for extended chute, that is only needed to load trucks generally.
Good luck, have fun.
Yes, shop early, (you might even get a deal on a last year's blower overstock)
If you have transportation you could consider getting across the border (Canadian) quotes as the $$ is in your favor.

Stache · Jun 30, 2015

Ugarte,
Going back 20 years, to when my brother's Massey 1010 was nearly new, and outfitted with a 3-point hitch 4-foot blower, we had about 2-1/2 feet of snow drop in one day. I cleared my mom's driveway, which was used for a school-bus turn-around, so that's a sizable area. Since that was fun, and my sisters were living in the three trailers on either side of the house, I made a 16-foot wide walkway across the yards so they could walk to Mom's without too much trouble and without going out to the highway.
The place is laid out kinda like Trailer-Trailer-Ranch-Trailer, with everything laid out parallel to the road. -I mention this because I have no good guesstimate of the distance traveled. Maybe 5-6 football fields?
It took me about 4 hours, pushing through snow that was coming over the top of the blower. Some of that time was spent circling one of the trailers to make skirting from snow, because the trailer had just been moved in that fall and actual skirting hadn't been completed before winter stepped in.

The Massey 1010 was 4wd, around 16HP, with Turf tires(not loaded), and a pedal to lock the rear wheels together. It had no FEL, and an approx. 50-pound weight hung off the front (not quite enough) to get the front wheels on the ground enough to steer.

-It was such a good day that I got the Massey and the snowblower from my brother when he had to upgrade to a bigger tractor and 7-foot snowblower. Then the tranny died(sigh).

So, hopefully some of that info will be helpful to you in answering your questions. I'm hoping the Massey 1705 I just got will prove to be as good in snow as the 1010 was.
-If not, well, I enjoyed telling about the great day I had. I love moving snow, it's almost the only tractor-time I get.

-Oh yeah. This was all flat property. The 1010 never had chains, but not because it didn't need them, I think I'd best get that lined up for the 1705.

Ugarte · Jun 30, 2015

Wow! So much excellent detail. Thanks to you all for taking the time to share your expertise. I know this advice will make my first winter with a CUT blower go smoothly.

I ordered a Kubota L2501 today, with loader and ssqa bucket, 64" Kubota blower and LandPride pallet forks, loaded R4's with spacers, to be delivered in about two weeks (2 grand in rebates for the purchase of the L2501 with two qualifying implements--loader and blower). I can't wait, of course. I'm very pleased with both deal and dealer.

leonz · Jun 30, 2015

Buy V Bar some chains from www.tirechains.com quick as
you will need them with your heavy wet snows.

HEC · Jul 1, 2015

I live in northern Me. and take care of 700 ft. of driveway , 2 small parking areas , for the past 25 winters and have never needed chains with 4wd. and loaded r4 tires . I don't have any steep areas to navigate .

skyhook · Jul 4, 2015

Heres a pic of the L2501 with R4's and R1's.....
Personally, I would have went with R1's.

http://www.cahabatractor.com/uploadedImages/NIZCGXL2501 with Loader and Cutter.jpg

https://www.kubota.com/assets/product/L2501/photo/L2501_1.png

JerryK · Jul 4, 2015

I'd put off buying the chains for the first winter and see how your R4's work. Their are lots of different tread patterns called R4... There are also good and bad points about chains. Not all good, and not all bad. Chains add traction, but tear up your concrete if they have bars. Large tractors, or old folks, and chains are a beatch to put on/take off. Chains are also expensive, but cost is not that important if you need the traction. Etc..... [ I run a big rear blower and don't need no stink'n chains

]

chim · Jul 4, 2015

My Ford has R1's and it has handled a 5' rear blade just fine since I bought it in 1992. When the tread wore to nubs - particularly the front - I found replacements. That was back around 2002 or so and it was difficult to find "real" R1's that had the same heavier and taller ribs as the originals. Rears were found about 1//2 hour away and the front tires necessitated a day trip to the other end of the state. A few years ago we decided to do our own snow removal at the church, so the Ford spends its winters there. This past winter it did just fine with a 6' rear blade.

The 2002 B7500 and the 2012 L3200 that replaced it have done fine with R4's. Last fall I grooved the R4's on the L3200 and it seemed to do even better. Last night I mowed with the Kubota (6'RFM) and the grass was wet. I went sidehill/up/down on a pretty good slope in 2WD and it was sure-footed regardless of what I did.

Here's the Ford with the R1's and the grooved R4's on the Kubota. (Still have no idea why some pics don't show as thumbnails)

Al 2 · Jul 4, 2015

I wouldn't want to be without a cab but many get by without one and some even say they like it that way. Think about LED lights if you intend to use it after dark.
Al

Dave Riebau · Jul 9, 2015

What is your opinion of front blades with skid steer attachment? I was thinking manual trip but hard to find anything that is for a tractor. Most are for a skid steer. I've been using a back blade on a L3800 and it's kind of slow.