new shop door, ?

[BHD]

a few years ago, I wrote and asked about bifold doors for the shop, I have a 13 foot x 13 foot opening,

not that large, but we do have wind, and currently I do not want to spend money on a commercial door, the simple is I do not have that much to invest in a door at this time, but need a door,

considering a bifold desigin, and solid door plan,

on the bifold, this idea with the extended hinge, so there is less loss of head room,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJwIdLt1QMg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIqfLuASe_c

and this Idea caught my attention,

ultimate

picture from flyer below, which uses a track to guide the door up and in to the building, (some one with experience with on said on a large hanger door, they did not work that good, jerky and not smooth),

over the week end I was thinking about this and the thought was to use a arm that pivots to guide the door on top,

not the best picture but a picture of the building I am wanting to put it in,

considering a walk in door in the big door, as well,

 

[BHD]

any comments or ideas or experiences, one would like to share,

 

[BukitCase]

Is that door on the windward side? If so, the door would need to be pretty stout to resist buckling under wind loads. My shop used to be a 36 x 48 pole barn, I built trusses in place to eliminate interior poles - my big door is 10' high by 12' wide.

In my case, winds blow ACROSS the door (door on east wall, winds 99% from the south) - I had at least one criteria in common with you - cost. I built the header over the door using 3 2x12's sistered together, then used sliding barn door track across the header and 12' past on one end.

The door(s) themselves I built in two halves - easier to handle working alone, plus you don't need to open it all unless you need to. I framed them with 2x6 laid flat so it wasn't so thick, and lapped the T1-11 siding on them so prevailing weather won't blow thru the crack between doors. When they're closed, there is 2" of siding from the left door overlapping 2" of bare 2x6 frame on the right one.

They don't seal all that well (around the perimeter) so far, I may do some sort of weather stripped "flip out" boards around it if I ever get the rest of the building insulated

I also framed for a 3'0" steel man door to one side of the big door - when I get that installed, I'll only open the big door to get larger stuff in/out. At that time I'll cobble up some sort of trussed steel bar setup for better security.

Also for exterior sliding door track you need some sort of flashing over the track, or you get drips running down the INSIDE of the door - maybe with enough roof overhang that wouldn't be a problem, but on my hill 50-80 mile winds aren't uncommon. 6" flashing just above the track solved that for me.

'bout all I can tell you, other than that folding linkage looks to be more stuff to go wrong - just my opinion based on years of shooting myself in the foot

HTH... Steve

 

[BHD]

thanks Steve

what I am considering is a single solid door, the drawing to the right is what or how it would track, and then I could put a walk in door in the big door, (which would eliminate a lot of opening the large door),

I have found a C face motor on ebay and a worm drive gear box, the motor will bolt on to, so I will have a power opener, I can get some contactors off ebay, for forward and reverse, put a limit switch in the line for a shut off, also considering a torque limiter, for a just in case situation, the motor was $30 and the gear box $30, I am guessing my other parts will be under an additional $75 for the power lift,

it will work on either the bifold design or solid design,

Just trying to make up my mind on the way I want to go, any one see any problems with the solid door and it tracking,

 

[Rustyiron]

For my little brain, a bi-fold (horizontal) door woud be easier to make work than the geometry of making a big single panel door with 2 motions happening. I'm guessing that when you say bi-fold you are thinking of something like this? Schweiss Nylon Lift Strap Information, Facts & A Note From the Owner
Looks like you have some existing hardware from your old FG door that should work. Just need to fab up some hinges for the upper half, come up with some type of jackshaft. In my thinking it might be a sturdier door with the added horiontal framing members at the middle hinge point. Did'nt watch the youtube, with my sucky hughesnet, it would take several hours!

 

[MossRoad]

I used to operate and maintain LARGE bi-fold doors on airplane hangars.... my advice.... don't do it!

And if you have two doors on one building, one being on a different side than the bi-fold door.... really don't do it!

Why? Because they require a huge hinges, stout stiffeners in the door, stout pins and rollers on the bottom corners, UN_BENDABLE railings for those pins and rollers to ride in, counterweights, rollers for the counterweight cables, clear area under the counterweights. They are huge SAILS in a slight breeze and if the back door to the garage gets opened to a wind while you're trying to raise the door, it will pop that bi-fold door right out of its side channels and then flap out, up, then down and you can't flex it to get it back in its railings. You have to take the pins/rollers off and re-mount them or pry the crap out of it, thus damaging the door.

Do you get the hint that I hated these types of hangar doors? :laughing: Out of all the hangar door types that we had to deal with at the airport, these were by far the most troublesome.

For a door this size, by the time you engineer out the faults of a typical bi-fold door by putting in multiple lift cables/straps, full-span roller bars and cable/strap wheels, motors/winches with enough power/strength to eliminate any counter weights, you've spent the same as a commercially available overhead garage door or, simpler, two 7' sliding barn doors. Two sliding barn doors would be the cheapest and easiest.

 

[EddieWalker]

I suffer from the metal condition of over engineering, over planning and making the simple complicated disorder. I always seem to start out figuring out how to make it fancier, more complicated and usually a lot more expensive then I need to.

In your case, I can see something similar happening. Ideally I would wait until I saved up the money for a roll up door or the door system you really want. This is a long term building and waiting until you have the extra cash to spend on it to do it right is the only thing that will ultimately make you happy and not have to do it again.

Since you need something now to seal off the opening, and I'm assuming just nailing some plywood or OSB over it to seal it off until you are ready for the permanent door isn't an option, I would seriously consider going with a home made French door type doors. Just built two frames with a bunch of heavy duty hinges and mount them to either side of the opening. Cheap, fast and effective. Ugly and a awkward to work with, but that can also be a good motivator to get the doors you really want.

Eddie

 

[MossRoad]

Yeah, I've got 4x8 plywood doors on our shed. Braced with 1x4 and big hinges. Cane bolts at the bottom to lock them into the ground, latches on the center and top. They work and are cheap. 13 x 13 is going to be heavy and tall. That's why I suggested sliding barn doors. You can always re-use the barn door wood in a later project.

 

[E/S]

What MossRoad said !
We just got through repairing a door like that on a hanger in a windy area, it was expensive !

E/S

 

[kevinwak]

Save your money and buy a proper overhead door. The 16' wide and 11' tall overhead door on my pole shed was $1100. What you are thinking of making looks like it all cost significantly more money then that.

 

[MossRoad]

Sliding barn doors...

Two 10' rails = $120
National Hardware® 5430 10 ft. Face-Mount Round Rail, Galvanized - Tractor Supply Co.

One 8' rail = $45
National Hardware® 5430 8 ft. Face-Mount Round Rail, Galvanized - Tractor Supply Co.

Four heavy duty hangars = $140
National Hardware® 5330 Flexible Hanger, Pair - Tractor Supply Co.

Misc lumber. I'd guess you could get away with under $500 for nice, permanent barn doors.

 

[BHD]

Save your money and buy a proper overhead door. The 16' wide and 11' tall overhead door on my pole shed was $1100. What you are thinking of making looks like it all cost significantly more money then that.

when I priced a new door a year ago the plain Jane version, was in the $1300, and with some windows and insulation it was in the $2000 range, and commercial opener is in the $500 up range, so a new roll up door would be in the $2500 range, for what I want,
I am figuring about $500 for the door it self and about $100 for a power opener, and if want a boat winch would work, all self made,

IN our area nearly ever steel building being used as a shop get rid of the rolling doors as fast a s they can and either replace with a bifold or a roll up with opener,

I have three sliding door in the 10 by 10 area, and none of them seal up and they all work hard unless there just oiled, and have had to rebuild the rollers on one of them,

I do not know how many farmers are picking up and trying to put them back on after a wind.

and on roll up door there is not a practical way to put in a walk in door, and the main shop does not have a walk in door, have to enter a shed, so a walk in door in the large door would be helpful,

and my idea with the solid door and more than half of it in side the building and supported in 4 points, I think would be less suptable to the wind and only being basically 3" thick in the normal direction the wind normally hits, will do more thinking about first tho,

 

[Xfaxman]

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and on roll up door there is not a practical way to put in a walk in door, and the main shop does not have a walk in door, have to enter a shed, so a walk in door in the large door would be helpful,
----------------------------------------------------

I have seen a walk in door in a overhead, but not a roll up.

 

[Xfaxman]

Back about a century ago when I grew up, tilt doors were used.

More nfo: FOOTHILL OVERHEAD DOOR - One Piece, Tilt up Garage Doors, Pasadena, Los Angeles, California

 

[BHD]

Back about a century ago when I grew up, tilt doors were used.

View attachment 414963

View attachment 414964

View attachment 414967

More nfo: FOOTHILL OVERHEAD DOOR - One Piece, Tilt up Garage Doors, Pasadena, Los Angeles, California

this is basically what I am talking about for a one piece door,
but a little different system on top, a arm that swings over, that changes the door so little of is working it way in side the building, and lift up instead of back, about half in and half out,

but I like the drawings you posted,

 

[MossRoad]

Back about a century ago when I grew up, tilt doors were used.

I got my hand caught in the spring on one of those when I was a kid.

 

[beeforty]

I got my hand caught in the spring on one of those when I was a kid.

You also need to make sure that you have the safety cables through the middle of the springs for when they break. My old neighbor who was in his 80's had a spring come apart and it put a heck of a dent in the rear quarter panel of his car. Probably would of done him in if it had hit him. Then of course your door hangs down on one side until you replace the broken spring.