Tiller Harrows Vs, tillers.

[vtsnowedin]

So I'm thinking about spring while the thermometer falls past zero yet again. This spring I want to put in some food plots plus do a better and bigger job on my gardens. I have a two bottom plow but don't have any working harrows. My first thought was to get a set of used eight foot three point hitch harrows. But as I look around there isn't much out there that doesn't need a complete rebuild. I find you can get a new 72 Inch tiller for about $2100. That would do the same job as the harrows and on the old ground gardens make the plow unnecessary. On the food plots I'd still plow it and pick off any rocks I turned up before tilling it.
So I think the limit on a set of harrows is $2000 and considering how simple they are $800 to a $1000 would be more like it.
Any thoughts guys on the advantages or disadvantages between them.

 

[HEC]

When my dad and I had a 2 acre garden plot he had the 5 ft. tiller for his Kubota tractor and I had 3 bottom plow and a set of used spring tooth harrows that I bought real cheap. I also bought a new, cheap 6 ft. harrow much like the ones at tractor supply which does a decent job when I added a bunch of weight to it. I use it now as I don't have the tiller anymore . We found during the spring of the year going over the ground with the spring tooth harrow to break up the ground some made tilling so much easier . I guess much depends on the type of ground you have . We have lots of use to be potato farmers in my area so used equipment is quite plentiful .

 

[vtsnowedin]

The food plots will be in old pastures that have been brush hogged occasionally. Thick sod with some brush roots. Of course it is Vermont and not river bottom so a good crop of basketball sized rocks will be found at each plowing.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

Big rocks and tillers don't mix very well. That alone would indicate a cultivator or spring tooth harrow is a better choice. Neither are ideal primary tillage options in sod. The tiller does make a nicer seed bed in fewer passes

 

[jeff9366]

I find you can get a new 72 Inch tiller for about $2100. That would do the same job as the harrows and on the old ground gardens make the plow unnecessary. On the food plots I'd still plow it and pick off any rocks I turned up before tilling it.

True.

Short answer first: As you have a plow and a garden I would go with a PTO powered roto-tiller unless your food plots are larger than three acres (+/-).

Three Point Hitch mounted Tandem Disc Harrows are a form of tiller optimal for longs pulls, i.e.: fields. You need a minimum of 40 pounds weight on each Disc Harrow "pan" in order to really mix, this means a minimum pan diameter of 18". However, a pan diameter of 18" is still light and will not scratch unplowed sod well, even here in Florida where the soil is sandy loam. To be able to cut with a Disc Harrow you need 20" minimum diameter pans. You also need enough tractor to pull a DH at speed, they do not mix soil at a walking pace.

A 'B' series Kubota will pull an 18" Disc Harrow OK, over plowed loam. It takes a heavier, more powerful tractor with 4-WD to pull a 20".

I own both a medium-duty Howse 16/18", 587 pound DH ($1,100 new) [37 pounds per pan] and a robust Monroe Tufline 18/20", 915 pounds, ($2,400 new)[50 pounds per pan]. It takes plenty of throttle for my 37-hp, 5,400 pound Kubota tractor-loader to pull the Monroe Tufline in a second pass.

Disc Harrows with 9" spacing between pans cut better; better for food plots, better for firebreaks.

"Finishing" Disc Harrows have 7-1/2" spacing between pans smooth plow furrows better, mix shallower, pull easier. Unusually, my Monroe Tufline has 9" spacing front, 7-1/2" spacing rear.

Disc Harrows tend to roll over rocks. That said, pans on 20" DH tend to be thicker, heavier, stronger than pans on an 18" Disc Harrow. It is not common, but people do break or deform pans sometimes. I never have.

I have never calculated but I doubt a 72" Disc Harrow has fewer parts, or very many fewer parts, than a 72" roto-tiller, less the roto-tiller's PTO shaft.

Photo #2 Howse 16/18

Photo #3 Monroe Tufline 18/20


MORE: https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=tiller+vs+disc

 

[vtsnowedin]

I have plows similar to your two bottom. The Monroe 18/20 would suit my JD 5045E and my ground. It's too bad they don't have a dealer withing 250 miles of me.

 

[jeff9366]

Surely, John Deere must have multiple 20" - 24" diameter pan Disc Harrows in Deere's lineup. While I am not sure, my friend's older Deere DH11 Disc Harrow has lever adjustment of the gang angles matching same on my Tufline. I read here that Deere contracts for some implements. It is possible Monroe Tufline makes DH11 Disc Harrow for Deere. At any rate, Monroe Tufline makes some very heavy duty implements, unfortunately for the wallet, priced in proportion.

DEERE DH11: https://www.deere.com/en_US/product...rrows/dh11_series_disk_harrows.page?#viewTabs

Main picture looks just like my Tufline. Internal picture does not match main picture.

While many Disc owners seldom or never vary gang angles, I use my DHs for a variety of tasks and find relatively rapid lever adjustment of gang angles on my Tufline 18/20 a worthwhile "premium" feature.

MONROE TUFLINE: Agriculture TH Series Tandem Discs - Monroe Tufline

Brown Manufacturing makes Discs even heavier, with an even faster lever adjustment, but too heavy for my Kubota L3560.

BDH Disc Harrows | Brown Manufacturing | 800-633-8909


I ogled Monroe Tufline and Brown implements at 2012 and 2014 Sunbelt Ag Expo in Moultrie, Georgia. It took me two years to convince myself to spend for the Tufline, influence by purchase of Kubota L3560. TUFLINE IS WELL THOUGHT OUT AND ROBUST. Paint could be better.

 

[vtsnowedin]

Surely, John Deere must have multiple 20" - 24" diameter pan Disc Harrows in Deere's lineup. While I am not sure, my friends older Deere 20/20" Disc Harrow has lever adjustment of the gang angles almost matching same on my Tufline. I read here that Deere contracts for some of their implements. It is possible Monroe Tufline makes some Disc Harrows for Deere. At any rate, Monroe Tufline makes some very heavy duty implements, unfortunately for the wallet, priced in proportion.

While many Disc owners seldom or never vary the gang angles, I use my DHs for a variety of tasks and find relatively rapid lever adjustment of gang angles on my Tufline 18/20 a worthwhile "premium" feature.

MONROE TUFLINE: Agriculture TH Series Tandem Discs - Monroe Tufline

John Deere has Frontier 3PH harrows. I found a DH 1280 for sale for $2200 used but it is in Maryland and the estimated shipping is $610. If you go to their build your own web site small disks don't even come up as an option even though there are some options you can add.

 

[vtsnowedin]

What do you think of this one.
HawkLine by Behlen Country Heavy-Duty Tillage Disk — Category 1, 6-ft.6-in. Working Width, Model# DISC2018NSB | Category 1 Disc Harrows Rakes| Northern Tool + Equipment
$1400 plus $260 shipping. Not as heavy duty as I'd like but at least it is available.

 

[jeff9366]

Northern Tool's description of Bolens as Heavy Duty is TRADE PUFFERY. I'd term Bolens medium duty, like my Howse.

18" pans are light for cutting food plots. 20/18 will have 7" spacing = more "float" = less cutting.

I would seek 20" diameter pans. Because A = Pi X R squared, weight goes up rapidly with increased pan diameter.

For food plots a DH a little narrower than your outside tire width is good. It is easier to pull between trees and boulders.

With 4-WD your 4,200 pound (without FEL), 45-horsepower tractor will pull a 20" no sweat, more so with R1 ag tires. (I have R4s on my Kubota)

Disc Harrows are like Box Blades. Paying for weight is something you will not regret. Other features are nice but weight per pan is key.

Your soil condition is tough. You need thick pans, unlikely to deform on rocks.

 

[jeff9366]

If you go to their build your own web site small disks don't even come up as an option even though there are some options you can add.

That is because 18" and 20" Disc Harrows, which are light, require notched blades to cut, so all ship notched. Beginning at 24" pans are sufficiently heavy may or may not need notches to penetrate; depending on crop residue and soil.

Only at 20" are frames heavy enough for other load increasing options, such a center balk breakers, outriggers, etc.

Pans without notches are very unlikely to deform and wear less fast. Wear is an issue to those who pull a disc 200+ miles per year.

26"+ diameter pans come only smooth.

Price a Deere DH11, probably around $2,400.

See if you can negotiate "free" delivery on a Tufline. It is pretty quiet in the tractor dealerships when snow is on the ground.

Price a Howse 16/20". Nothing dysfunctional about a no frills Howse. (My Howse 16/18 was much cheaper from my local Kubota dealer than price shown on Howse web site.)

Howse seems to have a dealer over every hill.

 

[Gary Fowler]

What do you think of this one.
HawkLine by Behlen Country Heavy-Duty Tillage Disk Category 1, 6-ft.6-in. Working Width, Model# DISC2018NSB | Category 1 Disc Harrows Rakes| Northern Tool + Equipment
$1400 plus $260 shipping. Not as heavy duty as I'd like but at least it is available.

I have an 8 foot disc with similar frame geometry and it cuts fairly well with the addition of two section of railroad tracks. For a small garden area, the time needed to make 2 or even 4 or more passes is usually not an issue. Rocks and tillers don't go together, even small soft ball sized ones. I have a lot of rocks also and even after running box blade scarifiers and disking many times and even digging up the garden with my backhoe and picking up all the rocks I see, I still hit some with my tiller.

I would go with a disc harrow for your requirements just based on the rocks. Get the heaviest one that you can afford with the largest diameter pans with scalloped edges. Be prepared to add some ballast to it like concrete blocks, etc to make it cut more aggressively in turf covered soil.

 

[dirtwurx]

i had the same decision to make in the past few weeks, and spoke with a few pros for advise for my area. first off i will say that i have a lot of rock in my ground as well, so much in fact that a quarry moved into my neighborhood a couple years ago. we have lots of grazing animals and for the first time would like to replant the pasture with grass/clover mix. i decided to take the advise of a k-state graduate (local agricultural college, in case you weren't familiar). he told me most of the food plot and clover seed do better when planted very shallow (surface to 1/2" deep), and disking or tilling isn't necessary. his recommended equipment was a drag harrow, to me this was good news because i too have a limited budget. he even offered to rent me one. i ended up buying a 6 foot by 8 foot harrow from tractor supply ($500), and it is built very well. i also purchased their 3 point spreader, also seems to be good quality, with a 900 pound capacity (cosmos 500-$479). the drag harrow is useful for many things other than this, so if this doesn't work out for me, at least i can use it to recondition my gravel. good luck to you! I love the 5045 by the way, very nice! Deere rocks!

 

[vtsnowedin]

That is because 18" and 20" Disc Harrows, which are light, require notched blades to cut, so they all come notched. Beginning at 24" pans are so heavy may or may not need notches to penetrate.

Only at 20" are frames heavy enough for other load increasing options, such a center balk breakers, outriggers, etc.

I was just lost in the wrong part of the build your own site. You have to come in from Frontier to get the full list of disk harrows. The site annoys me no end. The go from $2200 to $4200 pretty darn quick. It seems each mm of blade thickness costs $1000.

 

[jeff9366]

I was just lost in the wrong part of the build your own site. You have to come in from Frontier to get the full list of disk harrows. The site annoys me no end. The go from $2200 to $4200 pretty darn quick. It seems each mm of blade thickness costs $1000.

There are numerous features on the Tufline that make it more costly than the Howse, in addition to greater weight. I had to look two years before I could appreciate features value to me as an operator.

The implement business is very competitive. In my opinion, you are going to get pretty much what you pay for new. There are no magic bullets; except, sometimes, used in lieu of new.

(I doubt my tractor, nor your tractor, will pull a $4,200 Disc Harrow.)

 

[vtsnowedin]

(I doubt my tractor, nor your tractor, will pull a $4,200 Disc Harrow.)

Probably not. The problem is I don't have $4200 worth of tillage work in front of me in say the next five years. On the other hand I don't want to pay $2100 and have it be junk in three years.
A good heavy used unit that doesn't need a complete rebuild would be ideal.

 

[jeff9366]

He told me most of the food plot and clover seed do better when planted very shallow (surface to 1/2" deep), and disking or tilling isn't necessary. his recommended equipment was a drag harrow, to me this was good news because i too have a limited budget. he even offered to rent me one.

This is true for clover mixes, some of which are marketed as NO TILL. However, standard food plot mixes have forage not 2" tall but 24"- 40" tall, which yield much more food per acre. To get through summer without irrigation, especially on marginal land, standard food plot mixes almost require four inch soil preparation.

 

[jeff9366]

And you have to think twice when you read a review that starts with "destroyed on first use" Could the metal and welding be that bad or is the operator so stupid he destroyed a new machine in one day due to operator error.

Its the latter. Some people strap a length of railroad track on their DH. Then, if they turn without raising the implement, the strain of turning with 16 bilge keels in the water snaps the frame welds. Most often occurs before implement "lift" prior to turn becomes habit.

Buy heavy to begin with. Don't add the railroad.

 

[nybirdman]

Keep in mind that disc will need multiple passes compared to one with a tiller.Disc for smaller tractors will be fairly light.I till up to ten acres a year in the very rocky Northern Ny will no problems.I just leave the discharge flap wide open and make sure the slip clutch is working.
I plow with a two bottom,till,plant and then cultivate to help level.Mostly soybeans and sunflowers.We purchase a small grain drill so the corn will be drilled this year.