LS Frame Issue Video

[hutchman]

Yep, that's where mine were too. Yours are a bit longer and more obvious. My cracks weren't that noticable ... Maybe 1/4".

So I started hearing the dreaded fan hitting the shroud noise this weekend.....

Discovered 2 cracks, one either side....


View attachment 380262

View attachment 380263

 

[GManBart]

Guesseral,
I don't know.....I was wondering the same thing when I took the pics, I have a bag of extra bolts from when the tractor was delivered. I'll dig them out and see if they fit, one would think there should be some in there, but with both missing I'm also thinking maybe the holes serve another purpose.
Tom

I just looked at my 4047, and it didn't have a bolt in the forward holes (same as yours). In your picture, that part of the frame has a doubler to increase strength....I measured, and the two pieces of frame are .470" thick (measured the area with the half circle cutout), which makes that section .940" thick.

 

[azranger]

Is this a problem with certain models or does it affect all ls models? I have the g3033 so far so good, but it only has 40hrs on it too.

 

[Tbolt76]

GmanBart,
I looked again at mine, and forgot that the outer plate is also welded onto the main frame rail in addition to being bolted. I don't think the missing bolt is that critical with it being welded. Thanks for measuring the two plates, I forgot to do so. I think the R4041/47's are safe from this problem. If I had an R3039, I'd be getting that fixed before a problem shows up.
tom

 

[GManBart]

GmanBart,
I looked again at mine, and forgot that the outer plate is also welded onto the main frame rail in addition to being bolted. I don't think the missing bolt is that critical with it being welded. Thanks for measuring the two plates, I forgot to do so. I think the R4041/47's are safe from this problem. If I had an R3039, I'd be getting that fixed before a problem shows up.
tom

Yeah, I looked at the hole without the bolt very carefully....it's never had a bolt in there. The black paint was perfect, and glossy in both. I'm betting it's where something optional would bolt up.

 

[GManBart]

Is this a problem with certain models or does it affect all ls models? I have the g3033 so far so good, but it only has 40hrs on it too.

So far the only reports we've seen have been on a couple of R3039s.

 

[Guesseral]

Guesseral,
I don't know.....I was wondering the same thing when I took the pics, I have a bag of extra bolts from when the tractor was delivered. I'll dig them out and see if they fit, one would think there should be some in there, but with both missing I'm also thinking maybe the holes serve another purpose.
Tom

Yea but if it is threaded I would put one in it. Better to be safe than sorry, I always go by the thought that overkill never killed anyone but under kill could. What does the other side look like is there an empty hole?

 

[GManBart]

Yea but if it is threaded I would put one in it. Better to be safe than sorry, I always go by the thought that overkill never killed anyone but under kill could. What does the other side look like is there an empty hole?

That hole isn't threaded, and putting a bolt through it wouldn't really do anything. There is nothing on the far side of the hole, and what you're seeing is simply two pieces of steel that are welded together. The inside is the actual frame, and the outside (the part you can see with the semi-circular cutout) is a doubler that reinforces the frame where the loader mounts connect. The only way a bolt would help there is if all the welds on the plates fail, and then I think there are bigger issues at hand :shocked:

 

[Guesseral]

Well no threads no concern or choice. What I meant by the other side was the other side of the tractor, assuming if there were bolt holes on each side they could be for some optional equipment mounting.

 

[GManBart]

Well no threads no concern or choice. What I meant by the other side was the other side of the tractor, assuming if there were bolt holes on each side they could be for some optional equipment mounting.

Oh, both sides have the same open hole. A few post back I mentioned it seems likely for optional equipment. I was thinking something like a plow frame attach point, or their new snow thrower.

 

[Guesseral]

Yea my old fords have many different threaded holes all over the center section of the trans and bell housing if it wasn't for my uncle having many of the implements I wouldn't have any idea what they were for, I mean who would have guessed that 6 of them on one side were for a post driver and that 4 or 5 also on one side were for a single arm manure loader. It's just amazing all of the things that were looked ahead for and accounted for way back then. My uncle had all of the fun things at his farm ours was just a vegetable truck farm so our tractors were pretty boring.

 

[joemd11]

I have an R3039 and have not noticed any signs of frame cracking as of yet. Does anyone know if LS is offering to put the "fix" on tractor frames that have not cracked or are they only doing it after the cracks develop. I'm about 3 years into the warranty and only have 210 hours on the tractor. It would s*ck if the cracks appeared after the 5 year warranty expired and then be on the hook for repair costs out of your own pocket.

 

[rwork]

The first thing I did after pulling my tractor out of the barn this morning, was to check for cracks! Nothing so far. I will make sure I check periodically.
I've had mine for two years and 225 hrs.

 

[mangus580]

Once I have a better idea of what they do, I will share. I do know if you don't have the additional brackets pictured before... they are an update you will want.

I am not exactly sure about frame differences yet.

 

[EuroYanmar]

Good morning everybody,

This thread about frame cracks on LS tractors is very interesting.

Most of people on the thread checked the thickness of the frame to evaluate if it could withstand the strenght.
IMHO it would be more instructive to measure the high of the gap between the upper part of the front axle and the lower part of the frame.

No contact implies no strenght and by the way no cracks.

The question is to know if LS Mtron solved this issue in increasing this gap on newer tractors.

Did anybody measured this gap on R series tractors ?

Phil

 

[rwork]

Good morning everybody,

This thread about frame cracks on LS tractors is very interesting.

Most of people on the thread checked the thickness of the frame to evaluate if it could withstand the strenght.
IMHO it would be more instructive to measure the high of the gap between the upper part of the front axle and the lower part of the frame.

No contact implies no strenght and by the way no cracks.

The question is to know if LS Mtron solved this issue in increasing this gap on newer tractors.

Did anybody measured this gap on R series tractors ?

Phil

Are you referring to the distance from the bottom of the frame to the top of the axle? If so, i don't understand how this would relate to the frame strength issue?

 

[EuroYanmar]

Yes Rwork,

This is exactly what I mean.
You may consider what I wrote here :
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/ls-tractors/315699-r-series-rough-unsafe-ride.html
Maybe I mistake but, I suppose the crack maybe originated from the fact the front axle is knocking the lower side of the frame when the tractor rides on rough ground or when one use a loader with a bucket full of dirt.
On the pictures posted on the theard I think it may exists a kind of stain showing the occurrence of a contact between the two elements at this place.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...93806-ls-frame-issue-video-2014-06-22-23-14-a
Don’t you think this maybe possible ?
If yes, this is an engeneering design error and LS must solve it !

Phil

 

[Tbolt76]

I think its just not enough metal on the R3039's, nothing more than that. The frame on my R4041 is easily double the thickness of the cracked ones when you factor in the extra plate that acts as a "strongback" so to speak or stiffener. Its true the casting of the front axle could contact that frame as it flexes/pivots, but you would have to do so pretty catastrophically and repeatedly to crack the frame on both sides. No doubt its that the loader is too heavy for the frame, it weighs 1000 lbs nearly. If you apply a downward force on something like a 2x4 that is on edge, the crack will most likely appear starting at the bottom. Remember, the R3039 is really an economy version of the R4041/47's weighing in 1000 lbs less. It seems like it's supposed to bridge the gap between the G and R series, an economy 40 horse tractor. It was discontinued for good reason, most likely b/c its too lightly built.
Tom

 

[rwork]

I think its just not enough metal on the R3039's, nothing more than that. The frame on my R4041 is easily double the thickness of the cracked ones when you factor in the extra plate that acts as a "strongback" so to speak or stiffener. Its true the casting of the front axle could contact that frame as it flexes/pivots, but you would have to do so pretty catastrophically and repeatedly to crack the frame on both sides. No doubt its that the loader is too heavy for the frame, it weighs 1000 lbs nearly. If you apply a downward force on something like a 2x4 that is on edge, the crack will most likely appear starting at the bottom. Remember, the R3039 is really an economy version of the R4041/47's weighing in 1000 lbs less. It seems like it's supposed to bridge the gap between the G and R series, an economy 40 horse tractor. It was discontinued for good reason, most likely b/c its too lightly built.
Tom

I certainly would not say the R3039 is an "economy" version of the 4041\4047. It has exactly the same features of the larger 41/47.
It IS a smaller size frame, and due to that fact, of course its going to be lighter in weight. Two completely different size machines.
Now, is it a weakness in design, possibly so, but it is NOT an economy version of the larger machines.

 

[Guesseral]

I really don't think Tbolt 76 meant the economy version in the way you took it! Economy was just a wrong word, a better word phrase would be a lighter duty version of the 4041/47. And that isn't meant in any way to lessen the tractor, I don't think that was ever the intent.